Full Version: I'm Curious...
I'm curious as to what your techniques are for your storytelling and writing aspects in your game, a full-blown plot or some makeshift dialouge that you don't care if it's crappy or not?
I typically just stick to crazy events and humorous dialogue. Though I throw some serious stuff in here and there to add occasional tension.
I apply the three stage methods to write down the plot:
1st stage: rough plot, rough character design, story in two pages, with main points and main interactions between characters; (crappy)
2nd stage: refined plot, refined character, story written in five-six pages, with more details and some modifications; (almost good)
3rd stage: writing the story down, modifying it while writing; (final revision)
I can produce a good example with my current project plot:
Tryadine Effect, Day 3
1st stage: Veckert and Blame (the two main characters) are sent to investigate District 3 warehouse in search of smugglers. They find a hidden warehouse and meet the smugglers. Suddenly Noctiphages (i.e. monsters) attack and kill some of the smugglers. The so-told smugglers' leader tell you something about Forgotten Mansion, then a Noctiphage crashes a window, enter the room and kills the leader. You have to escape in the given time limit.
2nd stage: Veckert and Blame aren't alone. They take twenty policemen with them (more realistic). They search the warehouse, when suddenly lights go down and creatures attack and kill most of the agents. Veckert finds smugglers running away and join with them in order to survive. They reach a safety room where waiting for the dawn, but when the leader tell you something about Forgotten Mansion, a Noctiphage break into from ventilation duct and kills him
3rd stage: Same as second stage, with some more modifications. Veckert finds the smugglers before the Noctiphages' attack, and don't head for the safety room. The smugglers' leader is now killed by a sharpshooter which shots from a nearby roof while Veckert is receiving information about Forgotten Mansion.
3rd stage is actually the conclusion of a looong trail... Usually, 1st and 2nd stage take about a couple hours, while 3rd stage can require days and/or weeks...
As for telling the plot to the player... well, they usually have to figure it out themselves by talking with NPCs and gathering information here and there... usually, I tend to be serious and precise in dialogues...
Well, it all depends on the game
Jens
1st stage: rough plot, rough character design, story in two pages, with main points and main interactions between characters; (crappy)
2nd stage: refined plot, refined character, story written in five-six pages, with more details and some modifications; (almost good)
3rd stage: writing the story down, modifying it while writing; (final revision)
I can produce a good example with my current project plot:
Tryadine Effect, Day 3
1st stage: Veckert and Blame (the two main characters) are sent to investigate District 3 warehouse in search of smugglers. They find a hidden warehouse and meet the smugglers. Suddenly Noctiphages (i.e. monsters) attack and kill some of the smugglers. The so-told smugglers' leader tell you something about Forgotten Mansion, then a Noctiphage crashes a window, enter the room and kills the leader. You have to escape in the given time limit.
2nd stage: Veckert and Blame aren't alone. They take twenty policemen with them (more realistic). They search the warehouse, when suddenly lights go down and creatures attack and kill most of the agents. Veckert finds smugglers running away and join with them in order to survive. They reach a safety room where waiting for the dawn, but when the leader tell you something about Forgotten Mansion, a Noctiphage break into from ventilation duct and kills him
3rd stage: Same as second stage, with some more modifications. Veckert finds the smugglers before the Noctiphages' attack, and don't head for the safety room. The smugglers' leader is now killed by a sharpshooter which shots from a nearby roof while Veckert is receiving information about Forgotten Mansion.
3rd stage is actually the conclusion of a looong trail... Usually, 1st and 2nd stage take about a couple hours, while 3rd stage can require days and/or weeks...
As for telling the plot to the player... well, they usually have to figure it out themselves by talking with NPCs and gathering information here and there... usually, I tend to be serious and precise in dialogues...
Well, it all depends on the game
Jens
You know what, that is really good thought planning, I have a lot of ideas but my procrastinating personality gets in the way sometimes. But Jens, would it be interesting to you if we both collaborate on a thoroughly written tutorial? 
Why not? ATM I'm really busy, but the idea is pretty good...
There are lots of guys I know who would need some good writing tutorial...
Jens
There are lots of guys I know who would need some good writing tutorial...
Jens
Yeah, I could start writing down what has to be included then I can send you the list an we'll get to it whenever we're free.
I generally prefer to tie my story around my setting, not tailor settings to my story... if that makes any sense.
I've done a fair bit of research and have some knowledge of the hero's journey structure and other such basis of storytelling thanks to some of the wonderful people here.
It may be unorthodox, but I generally like to have the settings throughout the journey already set and plug the characters into it. I don't build a journey around the characters but rather I build characters from the journey. It's from there that I can get a story to flow, big or small. It's not a case of designating the protagonist(s) family/friends as the conflict and have the embark on a journey due to that, but rather already have a journey in-place. It's not fixed to the characters or tailored to them, but rather the conflicts I present will ultimately shape the characters in the end; how they react to the journey. My main weakness is still dialogue though, it's a bit tough to figure out how to make a game focused on gameplay but with a decent story without too much texts/visual novel like scenes between figures.
So it would go something like design the world > design the journey > input the characters and have them figure out the way from the start of the maze (journey) to the end.
I know I'm sounding contradictory, but it's also helpful to get inspiration from the hero's journey and that will involve some of the journey being tailored to push the characters one way or another. It's how it works really, if you were trying to climb a large mountain just for one big incentive at the top, then it better be pretty big, else the characters may be inclined to just stop half-way and return. Imagine yourself a Game Master and the characters controlled by RPers, because that's what designing an RPG is! You have to entice your players and build your campaign into the best one possible!
I've done a fair bit of research and have some knowledge of the hero's journey structure and other such basis of storytelling thanks to some of the wonderful people here.
It may be unorthodox, but I generally like to have the settings throughout the journey already set and plug the characters into it. I don't build a journey around the characters but rather I build characters from the journey. It's from there that I can get a story to flow, big or small. It's not a case of designating the protagonist(s) family/friends as the conflict and have the embark on a journey due to that, but rather already have a journey in-place. It's not fixed to the characters or tailored to them, but rather the conflicts I present will ultimately shape the characters in the end; how they react to the journey. My main weakness is still dialogue though, it's a bit tough to figure out how to make a game focused on gameplay but with a decent story without too much texts/visual novel like scenes between figures.
So it would go something like design the world > design the journey > input the characters and have them figure out the way from the start of the maze (journey) to the end.
I know I'm sounding contradictory, but it's also helpful to get inspiration from the hero's journey and that will involve some of the journey being tailored to push the characters one way or another. It's how it works really, if you were trying to climb a large mountain just for one big incentive at the top, then it better be pretty big, else the characters may be inclined to just stop half-way and return. Imagine yourself a Game Master and the characters controlled by RPers, because that's what designing an RPG is! You have to entice your players and build your campaign into the best one possible!
Amaro, that made a lot of sense and it wasn't contradictory. Overall, you create the story and world and then put the characters into order and let them make it out alive by themselves. Would you like to join me and Jens in our tutorial writing project? It is going to be very thorough.
Amaro's point is not at all contradictory at all
The style of plot-writing heavily depends on the writer. Some people feel more confortable in creating the characters first and then the setting, while others prefer to create the setting before the characters.
I generally apply a mix of them, i.e. I create a rough settings and rough characters, and then refine them.
Obviously, you can't create your character without the necessary background, and often, background and characters mingle together.
I'll produce an example again, a characer design for one of my previous project:
Now, you'll understand that if I haven't planned the settings before (U.R.S.S. and U.S.A war - U.R.S.S. being still present in 1995), I would have lacked the main aspect of Sasha's personality, his insane passion for explosives.
In conclusion, I think that settings and characters should be tied together to produce a good plot.
Jens
The style of plot-writing heavily depends on the writer. Some people feel more confortable in creating the characters first and then the setting, while others prefer to create the setting before the characters.
I generally apply a mix of them, i.e. I create a rough settings and rough characters, and then refine them.
Obviously, you can't create your character without the necessary background, and often, background and characters mingle together.
I'll produce an example again, a characer design for one of my previous project:
QUOTE
Sasha Cherenkov
Sasha is the son of a mid-class russian family, he was born in St. Petersburg in 1989. He spent his early years playing with friends and enjoying his life. Suddenly, U.R.S.S and U.S.A. started a war in 1995. Sasha's house was hit by a missile and, as a result, his family was exterminated. He was outside at the moment of the explosion and saw the flames devouring everything, after a great thunderclap (or this is what he thought it was). Sasha's psyche was utterly ruined by that event and he became attracted by explosions. He tried to set the orphanage which hosted him on fire, and, as a result, was sent to a psychiatric clinic. After a couple of years was released, disappeared without a trace and became a terrorist who killed only by means of explosives and dynamite. He is insanely attracted by unexploded shells and uses two of thems as a couple of maces to hit enemies.
Sasha is the son of a mid-class russian family, he was born in St. Petersburg in 1989. He spent his early years playing with friends and enjoying his life. Suddenly, U.R.S.S and U.S.A. started a war in 1995. Sasha's house was hit by a missile and, as a result, his family was exterminated. He was outside at the moment of the explosion and saw the flames devouring everything, after a great thunderclap (or this is what he thought it was). Sasha's psyche was utterly ruined by that event and he became attracted by explosions. He tried to set the orphanage which hosted him on fire, and, as a result, was sent to a psychiatric clinic. After a couple of years was released, disappeared without a trace and became a terrorist who killed only by means of explosives and dynamite. He is insanely attracted by unexploded shells and uses two of thems as a couple of maces to hit enemies.
Now, you'll understand that if I haven't planned the settings before (U.R.S.S. and U.S.A war - U.R.S.S. being still present in 1995), I would have lacked the main aspect of Sasha's personality, his insane passion for explosives.
In conclusion, I think that settings and characters should be tied together to produce a good plot.
Jens
I think any plot needs constant revision.
It's a really bad idea to fixate on too much when writing. What you thought was a good scene, or plot line, a few weeks ago isn't necessarily the best you can do.
A lot of the time when I write, I have an arc that I need to happen, or maybe just want to, but it makes little sense, so I'll tie another plot in from elsewhere. Makes the whole thing more dynamic.
It's also easy to only focus on one or two characters, so try to make minor characters have their own arcs as well.
Also, if there's anything about your setting that is different to real life, have you explored the ramifications of those changes?
It's a really bad idea to fixate on too much when writing. What you thought was a good scene, or plot line, a few weeks ago isn't necessarily the best you can do.
A lot of the time when I write, I have an arc that I need to happen, or maybe just want to, but it makes little sense, so I'll tie another plot in from elsewhere. Makes the whole thing more dynamic.
It's also easy to only focus on one or two characters, so try to make minor characters have their own arcs as well.
Also, if there's anything about your setting that is different to real life, have you explored the ramifications of those changes?
QUOTE (Sparrowsmith @ Aug 25 2012, 05:38 AM) 
I think any plot needs constant revision.
It's a really bad idea to fixate on too much when writing. What you thought was a good scene, or plot line, a few weeks ago isn't necessarily the best you can do.
A lot of the time when I write, I have an arc that I need to happen, or maybe just want to, but it makes little sense, so I'll tie another plot in from elsewhere. Makes the whole thing more dynamic.
It's also easy to only focus on one or two characters, so try to make minor characters have their own arcs as well.
Also, if there's anything about your setting that is different to real life, have you explored the ramifications of those changes?
It's a really bad idea to fixate on too much when writing. What you thought was a good scene, or plot line, a few weeks ago isn't necessarily the best you can do.
A lot of the time when I write, I have an arc that I need to happen, or maybe just want to, but it makes little sense, so I'll tie another plot in from elsewhere. Makes the whole thing more dynamic.
It's also easy to only focus on one or two characters, so try to make minor characters have their own arcs as well.
Also, if there's anything about your setting that is different to real life, have you explored the ramifications of those changes?
Wise words, a plot should be constantly revised over the course of its writing. Sometimes even as far as to change the whole original idea behind it. But if you're trying to be dynamic, just don't make it into another Kingdom Hearts extravaganza with too many tie-ins. KH is the only game I'll forgive for having such a... twisted plot line. But in another perspective, it's the epitome of what you're saying Sparrow. It demonstrates use of tie-ins for a more dynamic story, and gives minor characters their own arcs as well as the main ones.
I'd love to help Demented, but I don't think I'm really all too good in the writing department, someone like Sparrow would probably have more input.
I write in...well sections I suppose you would say. I create a world, I create a story, I create characters, then I look at each of them and figure out, this of course causes each of them to change and grow. Once I've finished that step, I start to put them in place, the setting, the characters, the story and I make a small section and then read/play through it and see how it works, I then make changes as needed.
I guess you could say my writing style is very...alive, it's constantly flowing and changing and something I was convinced was set in stone a week ago, may not make sense later given changes in circumstances. I suppose a lot of this comes from my experience as a GM and seeing how my players react to my worlds and stories, it really makes you quick to adept and also makes you not plot to far ahead.
I hope that makes sense, had a long day of manual labor and my mind is not with it at the moment.
I guess you could say my writing style is very...alive, it's constantly flowing and changing and something I was convinced was set in stone a week ago, may not make sense later given changes in circumstances. I suppose a lot of this comes from my experience as a GM and seeing how my players react to my worlds and stories, it really makes you quick to adept and also makes you not plot to far ahead.
I hope that makes sense, had a long day of manual labor and my mind is not with it at the moment.
QUOTE (amaro57 @ Aug 25 2012, 05:01 PM)
QUOTE (Sparrowsmith @ Aug 25 2012, 05:38 AM)
I think any plot needs constant revision.
It's a really bad idea to fixate on too much when writing. What you thought was a good scene, or plot line, a few weeks ago isn't necessarily the best you can do.
A lot of the time when I write, I have an arc that I need to happen, or maybe just want to, but it makes little sense, so I'll tie another plot in from elsewhere. Makes the whole thing more dynamic.
It's also easy to only focus on one or two characters, so try to make minor characters have their own arcs as well.
Also, if there's anything about your setting that is different to real life, have you explored the ramifications of those changes?
It's a really bad idea to fixate on too much when writing. What you thought was a good scene, or plot line, a few weeks ago isn't necessarily the best you can do.
A lot of the time when I write, I have an arc that I need to happen, or maybe just want to, but it makes little sense, so I'll tie another plot in from elsewhere. Makes the whole thing more dynamic.
It's also easy to only focus on one or two characters, so try to make minor characters have their own arcs as well.
Also, if there's anything about your setting that is different to real life, have you explored the ramifications of those changes?
Wise words, a plot should be constantly revised over the course of its writing. Sometimes even as far as to change the whole original idea behind it. But if you're trying to be dynamic, just don't make it into another Kingdom Hearts extravaganza with too many tie-ins. KH is the only game I'll forgive for having such a... twisted plot line. But in another perspective, it's the epitome of what you're saying Sparrow. It demonstrates use of tie-ins for a more dynamic story, and gives minor characters their own arcs as well as the main ones.
I'd love to help Demented, but I don't think I'm really all too good in the writing department, someone like Sparrow would probably have more input.
You don't have to write, me and Jens could use your ideas and write them out. Then we'll all be heroes to the nooblets.
My method is pretty indepth.. it largely depends if I'm taking the story at hand seriously or not.
Lets say I'm not. I get a group of characters together, give them a particular character quirk, sometimes conflicting.. "put them in a room together" and see what I come up with. This generally creates a rather loose plot structure unfortunately.. so there's usually some retconing involved if you want to get anything out of it that's useable other than a bunch of characters trying to save the world whilst keeping the band together. One example of this was an intermediate level "training game" I created based souly on terrible WoW group experiences and how they would relate to a realistic fantasy setting.. like say, the Mage who can't stop breaking aggro, or the Priest who's forgetful.. there's also things totally expected like the slimey rogue who would totally betray the team if it was no longer convenient for him. I decided the best way to handle that is that it's no secret that he's untrustworthy.. but I also made him wise - wise enough when not to get involved, when the hero type goes in guns blazing.
If I am taking the time to do something seriously, I write an entire lore about the world my characters live in.. often this ends up being more indepth than the characters themselves. And I'm not really talking about just in their time period.. its things like, what are all the factions the game/story is going to cover? How they fit in the world? Why they exist? But also giving like really cohesive solid answers besides LOL CUZ WE'RE BAD GUYS WHO EAT BABIES and stuff. Trying to explain why "magic" exists and why monsters are just roaming about in the world is hard.. I end up with like a 30 page txt file, and then I go through each of the characters I want to include. I generally fall under the "no deadweight" philosophy.. so having a really good reason for these guys being around and involved is important to me.. like before, I give them quirks to set up their persona.. like how they would act under pressure, what's their flaws all that good stuff. Often writing for a villian to me is really what makes or breaks a story. If you can get above the whole Sephiroth thing, just standing there being spooky, and give the guy a real personality besides just an image, then you have something. Trying to figure out the villian is probably just as important as figuring out what went on in your world. From there I make footnotes of key events I want to happen.. figuring out who comes in where and why they're a part of the group.. and if they're really vital to the story or not. Sometimes the less developed characters on paper turn out to be the most interesting in practice. I love it when a blank slate just writes itself for me. From there it's a matter of connecting the dots.. I often go back and rewrite tons, changing details that seem more benefical if I come up with a really cool footnote I want to add in that I didn't think of.. it's a lot thinking and being patient.. letting the stew cook in your brain before you think about serving it.
In the end, its A LOT of work... hahaha.. which is probably why making a "serious" story for me is much to large of a project to do in just about any game.. I do find it to sometimes hamper my ideas some.
Lets say I'm not. I get a group of characters together, give them a particular character quirk, sometimes conflicting.. "put them in a room together" and see what I come up with. This generally creates a rather loose plot structure unfortunately.. so there's usually some retconing involved if you want to get anything out of it that's useable other than a bunch of characters trying to save the world whilst keeping the band together. One example of this was an intermediate level "training game" I created based souly on terrible WoW group experiences and how they would relate to a realistic fantasy setting.. like say, the Mage who can't stop breaking aggro, or the Priest who's forgetful.. there's also things totally expected like the slimey rogue who would totally betray the team if it was no longer convenient for him. I decided the best way to handle that is that it's no secret that he's untrustworthy.. but I also made him wise - wise enough when not to get involved, when the hero type goes in guns blazing.
If I am taking the time to do something seriously, I write an entire lore about the world my characters live in.. often this ends up being more indepth than the characters themselves. And I'm not really talking about just in their time period.. its things like, what are all the factions the game/story is going to cover? How they fit in the world? Why they exist? But also giving like really cohesive solid answers besides LOL CUZ WE'RE BAD GUYS WHO EAT BABIES and stuff. Trying to explain why "magic" exists and why monsters are just roaming about in the world is hard.. I end up with like a 30 page txt file, and then I go through each of the characters I want to include. I generally fall under the "no deadweight" philosophy.. so having a really good reason for these guys being around and involved is important to me.. like before, I give them quirks to set up their persona.. like how they would act under pressure, what's their flaws all that good stuff. Often writing for a villian to me is really what makes or breaks a story. If you can get above the whole Sephiroth thing, just standing there being spooky, and give the guy a real personality besides just an image, then you have something. Trying to figure out the villian is probably just as important as figuring out what went on in your world. From there I make footnotes of key events I want to happen.. figuring out who comes in where and why they're a part of the group.. and if they're really vital to the story or not. Sometimes the less developed characters on paper turn out to be the most interesting in practice. I love it when a blank slate just writes itself for me. From there it's a matter of connecting the dots.. I often go back and rewrite tons, changing details that seem more benefical if I come up with a really cool footnote I want to add in that I didn't think of.. it's a lot thinking and being patient.. letting the stew cook in your brain before you think about serving it.
In the end, its A LOT of work... hahaha.. which is probably why making a "serious" story for me is much to large of a project to do in just about any game.. I do find it to sometimes hamper my ideas some.
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