Hi everyone,

I'll treat this topic as a sort of "garbage collector" in which I'll post some of my game's cutscenes / pictures in order to get some feedback.
At the moment I need some feedback about this.

You are free to give feedback about the old pictures, but I'd like to know something about the newer one

Thanks in advance

old overtoure
I'm working at Tryadine Effect Project by November 2011, but never really designed how Haemophages (i.e. monsters which appears in the game) could look like.
A couple of days ago, I was hitten by an idea and drawn this creature.
1.
Then, I wasn't satisfied and slightly edited it.
2.
What do you think of the picture? What was the best one between the two?
I'd really appreciate to receive some comment...

I had some problem too with Day 3 ending cutscene.
In your opinion, what's the best picture between those three:

1.
2.
3.

Thanks in advance,

Jens

The "Haemophage" image looks neat, but I like the black around the eyes better than not having it (it adds a lot to the picture, despite only being a small edit). =]

The second set of images is hard to compare... not because the differences are subtle, but because they are almost too different, lol.
The first one has a more feminine appearance (smoother, more curves) whilst the second one is more detailed and has less of a feminine appearance (especially in the face). Also, the second one seems to be more muscular with a lean body; so the breasts are completely unrealistic in size, lol. (She would fall forward, and the total body fat percentage is generally larger if you have breasts at that size - just saying from a girl's perspective, because it looks like a tomboy that wanted plastic surgery for some unknown reason.)
Hope that helps. ^^

Keep it up!
Practice will get you where you want to be!

Same, i like the slightly edited Haemophage picture; the second one w/ the little bit of black around the eyes.
It makes it look less innocent/friendly. : ))

i think i like the 1st cutscene image though. The mood of the scene seems meek and dark, and the character looks weak/ vulnerable.
Having a small mouth, rounded face, lighter build, and shorter nose adds to this vulnerability; it gives her child-like qualities/ physicality.

Edit: ...and the angle of the face is more accurate. >< Remember that the nose is in the centre of the face.

Okay, I'm for the second Haemophage too - thanks a lot for the feedback:)

As regards the second cutscene...
Well, I'm not a drawing artist, I'm still learning and so have some problem with body proportions.
I used the first one as a cutscene, but I never get satisfied by that, so I tried drawing it by hand.
The breast wasn't supposed to be such unproportioned. It was my fault, but never wanted to draw it oversized, I swear
Have you any advice/hint on how to modify the second one to make it better?
NOTE: the girl in the cutscene is 25-26 years old. I forgot to mention it before...

I'll do the following things for sure:

1. smoothen the contours;
2. reduce the breast size;
3. reduce muscular size.

I've not understood Magical_RuNE_Knight2001's comment on the nose, I'm sorry...
In my opinion it's still set in the centre of the face, as that reply suggested.

If someone can tell me something more, or add any advice, I'll be really glad:)

And also... can I have feedback on this image too? I actually don't know how to improve the design for the Noctiphage:



I think that's only a color issue, but every hint/advice will be well received.

Thanks again,

Jens


EDIT: I've try modifying the cutscene picture and this is the result. Tell me if it's better in your opinion...



Jens

It's definitely improved, but I still think it needs some work. ^^
One thing in particular, is that from this version from the Paint.NET version, you lose the curves that naturally apply to a woman's figure (her sides are too flat - much like you'd see in a guy). But she is slowly becoming more feminine. =]

Thanks for yout precious hints
So, I have to apply more curves, right?
I'll try, then.
And as regards that Noctiphage? I'm having a bad time with it: recolouring a scanned piece of paper, filled with the usual 4mm notebook grid it's a real pain... If you have any suggestion 'bout it too, I'd be really glad to know.

Thanks again,

Jens

When you color make sure you use a different hue for highlights and shadows. Dont just make the same color darker or use the burn/dodge (not saying you did!).
As for the bodies, you might want to brush up on your anatomy. Right now it doesn't look like you are drawing a basic skeleton to guide where everything goes. Drawing guidelines is important because it helps keep your people consistent.

The first one is better than the 2nd one because the body is more normal than the other one. The whole body in the 2nd one is pretty wonky. First off, those boobs are way to huge. Like on a frame like her, those boobs would prop cause back pain because of the weight. x: If she is wearing armor you prob shouldn't ever see her boobs. The shoulders area a bit broad and stiff. Loosen them by letting the shoulders go down more. The neck is too broad as well and it makes it look more like a dude (because men tend to have broader necks). Also the face looks a bit masculine but that might be because of the neck and the placement of the features. Try shrinking your head a little but and soften the features maybe~
Just remember there are tons more different between male bodies and female bodies other than boobs~
Anyways good luck on your art endeavors would love to see more~

And as regards 3rd edit? I've shrinked the head and resized the breast (as I said before, I didn't intend to oversize it. That is, I'm only a beginner and made a stupid error in proportions).

I'd also need comment&hints about that Noctiphage picture I posted in the previous reply...

Thanks in advance,

Jens

I'm not really sure how to help in the case of the Noctiphage picture. It's more of an imaginary character (duh!) so I'm not sure what it is that you want it to appear like. =\

Oh... well, I've something like a colour issue, since I've just a problem with those contours...
I've no idea on how to smoothen the image. It looks like a bit rough and I'm not able to improve it...

Jens

You might have to redraw it digitally to remove those problems, and then fill it in with non-textured colouring and shading.
If you start with filling it in with a much darker colour, then you can always add lighter greys to add additional detail to certain areas. =]

I dont know how every artist does it but for me, just doing basic sketches help me improve. I wouldn't worry about things like coloring. In order to fix a lot of the anatomy issues you just have to restart and redraw. Maybe instead of focusing on one piece at a time you should try maybe just mass producing stuff and practice blocking stuff out. As for the Noctiphage, like XMO says its an imaginary creatures, but at the same time it seems that it too wasn't blocked out.

When you color you use a 100% opacity brush and you paint. Don't use the burn/dodge tools. Its easier to learn about shadows if you just do black and white pieces with no in between shades; just pure black and white.
The drawing look rough prob because you are scanning them in and then coloring them. Not only that, it look like you are using a mouse to color (which is really really difficult most every artist that draws digitally uses a drawing tablet)! In my opinion, the best way for you to improve is just to do some paper drawing, scan them in, and just post them here. Start doing doodles and basic people blocked out correctly. You'll start getting all fancy and shit and before you know it you will be x10 better.

Hmm;
Try simplifying the shape of the monster into some basic forms. So, The head would be an oval for example, the shoulders ovals as well, the torso, an oval for now, and cylinders as the connecting limbs, etc. You will prolly have a rough-- or better-- idea of how to shade a ball or cylinder/can of juice. ><

Now think of your light source. It seems to be coming from the bottom-right, so focus on shading those spheres and cylinders from the light. Since spheres and cylinders have rounded surfaces, the light will be diffused/faded the further the surface is from the light.


While you shade, don't be afraid of using dark colours. The background is pitch-black and there is only one light source, so you should be shading w/ the same colour, or a colour similar to the background. Keep in mind of body parts blocking the light, and the fact that again, light will become weaker the further away a limb is from its source. Here is roughly what i did for shading... :

i made the tongue more highlighted than the rest of the body, as saliva (water) can act as a mirror (highly reflective surface).


**If ur having a hard time w/ shades, u can also try changing the image into a monochromatic colour scheme. Our eyes technically process what we're seeing into two "layers"-- grayscale is responsible for depth while colour is responsible for identifying what we're seeing.**


i tried not to make this too long or complicated, but hopefully u understand. '-' i'm not a pro, and i know the edits are rough, but i hope i helped. (!)
Maybe i should do a tutorial about this instead.."

Thanks for the hints, I've actually another doubt...
That creatures white bands are bioluminescent, so how can I implement that on the shading process?
Each band is similar to a low-power neon (especially the one on the head) and this is making things difficult...

By the way, nice tutorial:)
It will prove really useful.

Jens

Hmm... this is getting complicated, but i'll try to keep it simple still. x~x ><

In this case, you'd still do shading, but the shading would be less prominent-- think of looking at a lightbulb. The reason for this is because you still have the lightsource coming from the bottom-right + the bio-luminescence is weak; therefore, your eye would still be able to pick up some of its form.


However, you'd want to make the creases of skin near/on the bio-luminescence darker. And where the main source + bio-luminescene lights clash; this is because multiple light sources reduce the gradation-- or variety of shades-- you see.
Keep in mind again though that the further an object is from a light source, the weaker the light becomes. The arms should therefore have a stronger back light compared to the leg on the right.


You're welcome btw. i hope this helped as well... >< ^^ i'm rly thrilled you're learning from me, lol. (!) Just take it simple.

Well, it looks amazing... thanks for the hints
I'm making a one-man-project, so ATM I'm the scripter/event designer/character designer/mapper/game designer/main BGM composer of my game and I'm a bit rough in spriting/colouring (fortunately, there are people like yamina-chan, Sakura Phoenix and Vexus who helped me a lot with characters&tilesets, and Sithjester's site, which actually was my main charas resource).

This tutorial will prove very useful, in fact, since I'm using a lot of pictures-made-cutscenes and I was wondering how to improve them.
Well, I hope to be able to draw something better than those creatures... and to make a decent female character graphic by means of a pencil and a paper sheet.

Thanks again everyone (Magical_RuNE_Knight2001, X-M-O and bacon) for the precious hints

Jens

i mad u a vidoe
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuWFbwnYJvU

Custom cutscenes are always cool to see, I like your lighting effects, I think to many ppl just focus on the char and forget about the background atmosphere. However your monster looks to much like a Resident Evil Licker to me. Keep up the good work.

@Mustaklaki
I honestly haven't understood your video's purpose...



Hey, Resident Evil lickers were exactly the base
If you give a look to my first request (an old post buried inside the request section) you'll find my request was to create a monster which was a sort of mix between a licker and a Sangrophage (a monster from magic).
There are differences, however:
my creatures have eyes and haven't their brain exposed.
In addition, they can't walk the walls and the ceilings, they aren't zombie but only quadrupedal blood-eating creatures... and exist in six different types [Haemophages, Noctiphages, Siderophages, Lymatophages, Helliphages and Necrophages]

This chapter closed, then I'll ask for another feedback.

What's the best picture, in your opinion, between these two?
This is part of the opening cutscene of TryAdIne eFfect :: Chapter 2...
The robot is VORS Blame (see the project main page if you need some more detail...)





Thanks in advance,

Jens

All right, so I see what you decided to do between the first and second image. The detail from the first would be great to keep, so I would recommend not blurring the entire image as the second image shows. It does need editing (first one), but I think it would be preferred to keep the detail. =]

The haemophage reminds me of the Licker in the Resident Evil series. But the I like the first one better, it's bulkier and there's something about it I just can't explain that draws me to it.

I know, but I haven't a precise idea on what to do.
I'd like to preserve the details, but at the same time I'd like to make the background more visible.
As regards the background, I really prefer the second one, as regards details the first one.

If you have any suggestion...

@DementedCashew
Which image do you referred to? The Haemos or the robot cutscene?
It wasn't easy to understand from your post, sorry...

Jens

You would have to do a lot of editing to make it work properly, I'm not sure what else to tell you. =\
I can see that there is a lot of area that can be removed without ruining the details, but all I can say is that it just needs a lot of touching up here and there to get it to work properly without just blurring it.

This is version #3.
Unfortunately, I'm quite good at drawing but I lack some editing abilities...
Anyway, This should be the right compromise between #1 and #2...



Tell me what do you think about it...

Jens

The Haemos.

Okay, thanks everyone

This time, I need feedback onto two other cutscenes; the subject is VORS Blame again.





Thanks in advance,

Jens

Looks like it needs some touching up, but they are really neat ideas!

What program are you using to edit them?

The old, good, free Paint.NET

Anyway, thanks for the comments. I needed ome feedback 'cause these three last scenes are the opening I planned for my game's Chapter 2 and I put lot of effort in them.

I just hope I have reached a decent quality...

Thanks anyone again, see you next picture

Jens

It looks like you are blurring/smearing the colors together. When you pain you shoudnt need to use those tools; a simple paint brush at 100% opacity will do the job better.

Okay, but how I'm supposed to do light effects without blurrying blacks&whites?
Can you give me some example, so I can understand?

Thanks for the advice, anyway

Jens

Sure. Here is a tutorial (that i didnt make)
http://androidarts.com/art_tut.htm

it talks all about light and goes into things such as light affecting tones, color, etc
its actually a good tut for starting out how to paint

Light effects dont blur objects as there is nothing solid obstructing the vision. When you cast a light onto something, does it blur? No it gets brighter in the area the light is cast. Not only that, metallic objects never use blue methods for shading. Usually metallic objects reflect the world around them.

You should try and also touch up your drafts. The blurs go out of the edges (and again light and color dont work that way).

The issue is that you are trying to utilize special quick effect instead of actually drawing the effects themselves. You are at a place in your arting journey where you dont have a basic understanding of what exactly that effect should be used for, therefore you cant really succeed in taking that shortcut. And that is perfectly okay because it takes years to even be able to consider that.

Im not trying to be a dick and bring you down but everyone could use room for improvement. You are starting to do some really bad habits that I tend a lot of artists see to do. These shortcuts are going to hinder you in the long run because then you will have to unteach and reteach yourself to break them. Art takes time. There is no quick 1 hour method to doing it. And I understand you may be a hobbyist and you would rather pursue it your own way at your own leisure I get that but for the things you are trying to pursue there is a right way and there is a wrong way. Maybe just do some studying and look up some tutorials about basic coloring. And if you ever do decide to jump out of your comfort zone and do something totally radically cool I will always be here to comment even if im not a great artist myself~

Yeah, you hit the center of the target.
I'm a hobbyist who is actually drawing almost every picture cutscene of his game and then colouring it with Paint.NET.

I use gaussian blur only because I wasn't able to find any other good method (I started using that program last November and haven't mastered it yet)... so thanks for your feedback

I'll try recolouring these pictures, since I've made a lot of effort to draw them and I want them to be wasted this way.
I'll surely check the tutorial, I've given a look to that and seems rather explanatory.

Thanks for everything,

Jens

I also use PAINT.net. D=

Are you like me and can't afford anything else? ._.

You know what I would try? GIMP! It has brushes and it's 100% free!

What I used to do before GIMP stopped working on my computer, was outline and simple color in PAINT.net, then shade in GIMP.

I used to blur like you do, but it's really hard to get everything to look right doing so. I would just go with simple coloring, like cell-shading or something. Anime coloring. o.o Or you could try coloring traditionally.

But enough about coloring! This is an idea a friend told I should do for my game, but I got too lazy to continue... I think I like your creature designs the best! ^___^

Okay, I'm in big troubles.
I truly desire to learn manga drawing, but I really have zero spare time left.

I've succeeded in drawing this:



but... I'm not satisfied, I don't know why... it's too far from my concept of manga (I mean... almost realistic style, Deathnote-like to be precise, not chibi)... but I can't understand what's wrong. Maybe the ink style? The colours?

Any suggestions/ideas?



I really don't know where to start.

Thanks in advance,

è

Jens

P.S. I can't reveal for what game this image is. It's actually top secret

Well.. it kinda depends on what u mean by manga?
Like, there're many different styles; is there a particular style or way that u like? Like u want something more chibi/cute?

i draw manga, but i don't think it always looks very chibi. ( -D-)/ haha

...
i think it might know what u are meaning though. i think... u prolly want to reduce the amount of wrinkles of the face.
Also maybe make the eyes a little more abstract and define the femininity of them. Like, emphasize the eyelashes and curvature of the eyes, and also maybe try to draw with a light, delicate hand.
Here, maybe this will help? i hope u don't mind me drawing over her face..." :

Like i tried to make the top of the eye a bit darker. i also did not completely draw in all the lines. i hope u get the idea im trying to communicate... (-D- )\

Edit: Erp, wait, this sounds bad, but... er, the picture is female correct...? (>-<)

Actually I think that is his Main Character who is a guy XD

@Shadd

SHE was a FEMALE, not a GUY. And I can't reveal what project does this belong to, not yet
I didn't think I was sooo bad...

@Rune

Thanks a lot
Well, you surely gave me a good idea My second problem is... that I'm not able to colour it as I wish.
Any suggestions?

Jens

My mistake, I thought this was the main character from Tyradine Effect, the blue hair threw me off.

No need to apologize

I mainly used this topic to Tryadine Effect related pictures, so you are excused...

Now I need some colouring help...

Jens

O: I like where these are all going Your creatures are especially boss!

What program do you use to color??? There are a few out there that are pretty good, but I recommend downloading Paint Tool Sai (You'll need to look for the english version)

The main reason I state this is because I saw blurring mentioned. I used to use blurring a lot in order to make my colors blend and fit together smoothly. Paint Tool Sai has two brushes, the paint brush and the watercolor brush, that one can naturally blend with as your coloring they work very much like actual paint. Do you use a tablet or a mouse to color?

Concept art version of the Haemophage looks like something out from Resident Evil series.

Thank u (>-< )/

...Well, so it is a girl, right?.. (sorry! lol.. '>-<) And also, what kind of colouring are u aiming for?

You could even just do flat colouring with coloured outlines to start off. Or, if u want something with a bit more form, u can prolly try GIMP or yea, Sai. Sai isn't free though.
Alternatively, there's nothing wrong with traditional colouring styles; and especially if don't have a tablet, or if you feel you need more practise to understand colouring, it might be better to shade with a pencil first and add colour later.
Real-life/ reference drawing can also help a lot with practise. \o\ i hope my suggestions help?

@Rune

I've tried flat colouring, but I feel I'm very incapable at doing that... let's say... I'd like to learn how to properly flat coloup it before shading, since the colouring I've employed really disappointed me...

@Clord

Yes, but this was discussed earlier on the previous pages
Haemos and Noctis are inspired by RE lickers (yeah, exactly them). If you manage to find my first graphic request topic, I asked for a character which was the right mix between a RE Licker and the Sangrophage from Magic the Gathering... then, I received no answers and made it on my own... but that was the original idea.

Jens

Gimpshop is great for flat shading, having layers and all. Having layers to play with can make a world of difference, cause most the process of learning aside from study is playing with tools and colors till you get on track to your desired result!

I'm actually using Paint.NET, which has layers as well, but I've never been satisfied by the result...
I really don't know what to do...

Jens

I don't know how much of a visual learner you are, but I find that look at youtube tutorials can, at least, give you the basics and a good method to start with, and as you go you will improve and discover your own way of doing it.

What's your process? You have the lines, you're sitting down ready to start coloring. What do you do now, like what kind of process do you use to color?

Hmm. I saw a thing on TV about how u need 10 000 hours of practise to master something.
i think.... u might just need more practise. i also think... u might have standards that r too high.? ( '-')/

Disappointing compared to what/who? Incapable compared to what/who? What kind of result would u like to see? /(*-*)/

i remember i had the same problem as u, when i was 10 and trying to draw hands.
i hated them, i was never satisfied by the results i got, too. i tried all sorts of different tools and different techniques.

But then i saw a show about skating practise... and what they said really stuck with me: "Well, how can you expect to get better at something if you don't ever practise it, or don't even try? How did you learn to walk?". it was a real slap in the face for me.


i'm curious too about what colouring process u use.
... Also, idk if this will help u, but.. i downloaded Paint.NET to try and this is the picture i got...:

Maybe try changing the brush default so it starts and ends on a rounded brush. And 2), i did an outline, maybe it will help u too...
i also shaded on a new layer, blurred the shades and lines, and brightened the centre + made a gradient overtop...
If u shade on a seperate layer, u can put layer effects on easily, and u dont have to blur everything else.
i hope this is something that might help u? /(-x-)\

WTF?!?!?!?!!!

...

There's an abyss between my colouring skills and yours...
Anyway, I'll look for some good tutorial and try making something better...
I've always used separate layers, gradients and blurry effects, but never reached that level.

Jens

! >//<'\ XD thank u. i think u just need to give urself a little bit more time and just enjoy the process, instead of thinking about what ur doing wrong.
But u r definitely capable of doing shading that might satisfy u.. And i guess u could say that u don't really need all these fancy things to recreate something similar with what u have, or what u r comfortable with.


Maybe try duplicating the shade layer, and blur the duplicated copy... or make an over-top layer that emphasizes contrast for everything, and blur it. U can also try changing the layer mode to something like "colour burn", "colour dodge", or "overlay" too.

i personally found this tutorial incredible though, and it will prolly help u too! \o/: http://www.artinstructionblog.com/drawing-...light-and-shade
The lady who writes it is a professor and really helps u understand light/ shadow theory.