Title says it all. If you have an idea on a story or a plot that could be used for the R3 Community game, post it here.
As a community, we'll come up with a plot that most/all people will agree with. If you don't agree with the plot, simply explain why or create a new one. And remember, don't take the type of engine into factor. Let's start from here before we can work out mechanics and game play.

I'll post the the suggestions up here when we come up with some.

I, teh evil Resource Dragon is taking over the world!!!!

And Albino Parakeet is the troll under the bridge we cross.( i.e. The troll under the bridge is a white parakeet who won't let you across)

I don't know, we don't necessarily need to involve ourselves with this project.

I say we should start with a general idea. Before delving into story, what do we want our game to be about? An armored mouse, for instance?

They said something about fighting BOREDOM, but I dunno if that was a joke.

Coming up with a plot off the bat is pretty tricky business. For instance, I have several ideas for horror based games, but I know they'd only work on a few engines, and they're not exactly full plots, more like ways to use events to create atmosphere.

Don't get me wrong, I think an RRR community game could be awesome, it just depends on how serious everyone is. If it's about RRR (games like this have been thought up before) then plot isn't too big an issue. If it's a serious game, like, monumental in hours and effort going in, then the plot will most certainly take time to develop.

In fact, I would suggest doing exactly what I think most RM games should do: installments.
Not one big game that will lose speed almost immediately, but lots of smaller games which work on their own, but gradually build up to make a fully blown and intricate story. This way we can have lots of different plots, and then one over arching plot.

But if we are just spitballing plot ideas, I personally like things that are meta. If its a game about a person(s) trapped in a game, actively hating on the player, yeah, I'd get a kick out of that. I can think of a way the character could crash the game (put in a buggy script, some variable, and a save) but it works again if you reboot the game (it autosaves so its fine) that would be pretty new as a concept.
Honestly though, should probably spit ball some setting/genre ideas first before getting into the story or plot or anything...

That reminds me, have you guys played The Winter Sage? That game goes on forever...

It's epic! Or something.

(Actually it goes on forever for a different reason)

Going off of what Sparrow said... I guess I have a suggestion.

I'm not sure if I'm just completely rephrasing him or not, but I think it would be cool to play through as a bunch of different characters in different chapters, have them meet up mid-game or so, and then go about the rest of it. An actual story for this I can't really think of, but it shouldn't take too much time to figure out.
(If each character was to have a separate story, it leaves room for many writers, perfect for a project like this.)

All you would need to do then is:
1. Get major characterization down for those key characters.
2. Find them all common ground, like a common goal.

And then you could probably work backwards from there to figure out their pre-history (before they meet up in game)

Does that make any sense?

EDIT: There's probably a topic for this, but I'd like to help out with a game like this. Mapping skills and I can probably contribute artistically.

ANOTHER EDIT: I also don't think that the game should be purely serious. I saw in the poll that there was a choice between adventure and humor, why not have a really upbeat and humorous adventure? I'd like to play another one of those...
(Example: Tales of a Drunken Paladin, it was hilarious but it was adventurous and fun)

(I've decided to do support in ideas rather than coding, XP script is a pain in the bum.)

What sorta humor? There's just light silliness. Then there's dark humor (example, the play version of Little Shop of Horrors had Audrey actually ask Seymore to feed he to the plant because then she'd be "somewhere that's green"). Then there's abstract humor, which requires people think in a really weird way to get the thing (some japanese works are like this). And then there's surreal humor, which pretty much means that something really weird might also be funny (or maybe not). There's even a type of humor where you string together quirky cultural references.

I think we could try a multi-layer reality story. Something like this:

Layer 1: Some such fantasy story involving certain characters. It should be pretty engaging until about a quarter of the game through, revealing nothing about its true nature (much like Star Ocean: Till The End of Time)

Layer 2: The story hints in bits and pieces (perhaps really weird dream sequences), before actually revealing that this is in fact an rpg that these same characters are player and have an offline life. Maybe something like Hack Sign.

Layer 3: Yes in fact, this is a game, but the so-called players from layer 2 are actually just sprites, made by programmers, and this too is a game.

Layer 4: It's actually an unwritten game, and the focus shifts to the people behind the screen. The real programmers need your help, because they have writer's block. Won't you please help them?

Layer 5: The game ends with a very strong impression that reality itself might have programmers (and they too have writer's block).

The enemies for layer one would be purely traditional fantasy enemies, layer 2 would have competing players fighting (or other "real life" concerns), layer 3 would have computer coding enemies (viruses, glitches, bugs), layer four would have enemies associated with void or nothingness and generally be associated with being blocked, and the final layer would being the ending have no enemies, to focus more on pure drama/comedy.

(Also it might be interesting if, like Despair said, people from the first chapter make cameos as real people in the later chapters)

I love that idea. Especially with having all those meta layers.

(The best part is, we can actually include in the latter stages, actual team/programmer's names, and that be like "oh no, I just made these people up, the real programmers are..." and include the rest)

Anyone else thinking Cerebus Syndrome?
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CerebusSyndrome

Basically means it starts out pretty light hearted, lots of humor, then over time develops into something more serious.
I'll come back to this in a moment.



I think there's something here, definitely. Especially that last bit about recursive characters.
If we follow the same people throughout, then encountering someone they beat in the first game in real life (or as real as life gets) could probably lead to some pretty existentialism humor.
Sort of like if one of the programmers of the game is identical to the scumbag boss you fight in the first installment (if we're going with installments) and he explains that the programmers usually put each other into the game as a kind of spiteful joke.
Hell it could even turn out that the main character(s) are based on the lost family member of higher-up. The game was designed to have AI so intelligent that it's like keeping a copy of them alive in some way. Of course, the game is too intelligent, and starts trying to escape into the real world (maybe it even succeeds)?

Just spitballing ideas here.
I just thought it would be funny if one of the main characters had this huge amount of unexplained love for his [mother/father/brother?] even though the other characters never meet that person, then eventually it turns out that love is pretty much programmed into him for the sake of that person in real life (if such a thing exists) and it becomes incredibly dramatic and depressing in a way.

On a humor side of things, when the creators of the game talk to the characters within it, they'll actually have to type out what they're saying.
Which means we get typos like tihs
*this
just a thought.

Also, their could be some meta-jokes along the way.
When two characters are playing the first layer game, they might talk to each other, maybe say something like
"man, where do we even keep all our stuff?"
"Bottomless pockets man, don't question it."
but they're not talking about the game, they mean in the second layer. In the second layer they still have an inventory, they just don't realise it's a game construct, so he's actually asking a genuine question about real life.
So the joke is:
1 - RPG characters are aware they can carry ludicrous amounts of things.
2 - Turns out they were just talking about the game. We roll our eyes and say ohhhh
3 - It actually IS game characters being aware they can carry ludicrous amounts of things.

I'm sure some dialogue could make those three concepts funny on some level.
Maybe even control one of the programmers of the game at one point. You try to pick something up, but you can't.
"This isn't a game! Where would I put that?!"
again, just spitballing some ideas.

Maybe one of the characters talks about a nightmare at some point, how he kept trying to escape from an enemy but he ended up just running on the spot, unable to escape.
The humor could come (in part) from the absurdity that already exists within games.
E.G conversation between a character and programer
C: "Wait, you're hurt?"
P: "Don't worry about it, just keep going."
C: "Why don't you use a potion? It's what I'd do."
P: "Listen, the real world isn't like a freaking game, ok? We don't just pop a potion and feel better!"
C: "Oh, then what do you do?"
P: "We look for a first aid kit and patch ourselves up."
C: "You mean like in shitty first-person shooters?"
P: "... Yes, exactly like that."
C: "Well why not grab a first aid kit?"
P: "I couldn't find one."
C: "Wow. You guys are awful at this whole life thing."
P: "What?"
C: "I didn't even know I was in a game until this morning, and I still always left the house with at least six potions. Why don't you just carry around first aid kits with you?"
P: "We don't have anywhere to put them!"
C: "Pockets!"
P: "Our pockets aren't bottomless, you moron!"
C: "Man, the real world sounds awful. I can see why you'd much rather make games. Things are pretty awesome on this end."
P: "Just shut up and save the world."
C: "Whatever."

I'm sure that dialogue could be made like, three or four times as humorous with actual effort and characters that I wasn't making up on the spot. Like I said, spitballing here.

Also, could one of the programmers get knocked unconscious and see a giant floating "Continue?" sign? They click yes and wake up, and can't decide if they were hallucinating, or whether they really have been in a game the whole time as well.


I think an advantage if we break up the game into small parts, and then apply the layers, then we can make each part set the scene. Like, in the first layer, we'd have typical fantasy controls. Hell, it could just be the RTP to make it look extra shitty. Then the game pulls back behind the computers, and (since it's a new project file) it has an entirely different battle and menu system. Fighting could take place on the map, but you still just select options. IE, you run around, and when an enemy touches you, you stop being able to walk, and get prompted with menus like "attack" but you're still on the same map. Graphics would also get a boost.
Then when you get to the programmers, there's basically no menus or anything at all. Damage could be represented via red tint to the screen (CoD style) and attacking would be done in real time on the map (pressing z attacks) and you wouldn't have an inventory at all. You'd just be able to hold [5] things, and they'd correspond to five letters or numbers on the keyboard.
Any layers above that should have no audience input at all. Basically like watching a cut scene, maybe. Keep these to a minimum I think.


I was also thinking that there could be a rogue program within the game (the 2/3rd layer one) which limits how much the programmers can help the characters. Like, if they give the characters a potion by coding one in, then the rogue program will learn how to create potions. This is why the programmers never 'level up' the characters, because then the rogue program would become unbeatable.
The rogue program would be a substitute 'big bad'. Like an antagonist while in the 2nd/3rd layer.

Anyway, that's like a dollars worth of thoughts in there. I'm going to go do something else now.

I post my concerns not to be negative or unnecessarily critical, but because I want the project to succeed and turn out good.

My concern with the meta-game (Gameception!!) is that it seems...maybe not right for a community project. It is cool, I can't deny that. But it's just so out-there most people won't know what to do with it. It seems like a project for a somebody with a strong vision to lead and direct, but as a community project most people may be left out on such a vision. It would also be very trick to pull off convincingly, and this is one project where "too many cooks around the pot" is going to be pretty much standard. I do like the idea, I just worry about how it would change, and, well, basically be butchered, throughout the course of a project like this, where many people want to contribute, and should be able to contribute.

It's easy to be ambitious, but a simpler, more straightforward (not too straightforward) plot with potential for many sub-plots and a wealth of history and characters may be the way to go for this project. A strong, bold vision is likely to become watered down, I'm afraid, and changed and altered until the original purpose is lost and so is anyone trying to play it.


I certainly don't want to come across as a negative obstructionist. I just want to voice my concerns and see what others think. I believe constructive criticism is very important to any successful endeavor and welcome it with open arms whenever it's directed at me. As such, I'm willing to give it whenever I feel compelled to. I understand some people don't take any sort of criticism very well and that's why I'm coming off as almost defensive here. Don't want to upset anybody. /end

Maybe it could be about some gamer kid that thinks that he's in a video game but actually isn't? Like, he could have to go to school and he hallucinates these gaming abstractions and everyone else thinks that he's crazy or something. The menus in-game could even be misleading about the current situation and you would have to rely on other cues to figure out what is really going on.
And as an added twist, these illusions might become important towards something a little later on? For example, said kid has to study for a math test but decides instead to infiltrate the teacher's lounge to get the answers and happens to hear the teachers plotting something horrible or something. I would envision it to often poke fun at the kid by clearly making him out to be delusional while at the same time making it feel like you're doing something so awesome by completing all those chores-related sidequests.
Just a random thought that I had. It seems a little bit simpler than the gameception thing while still contemplating the links between the gaming world and the physical world.

Wasn't that what Paranoid Agent was?
Probably thinking of something else, never mind.

I agree with what you're saying here, because I feel that simpler is better when dealing with a community project.
It can still be detailed/fun/interesting, but with a simple (easy-to-follow and easy-to-design) story you can bring individual details into the story as you go along (versus trying to have a very overly-thought-out story that few people can remember to follow properly). =]

Just my take on it, but I really do like a lot of the ideas expressed so far.
Keep it simple and light-hearted; that's just what I'm thinking.





Yeah, this is a step in the right direction, in my opinion. ^^

I completely agree with X-M-O on shinyjiggly. Sounds alot better then my boredom idea lol and yea it was a serious game idea that I had when I first started wanting to make games. I'll just lock it back away in the "i'll get around to making this eventually" folder lmao I'd totally be on board for a meta-game about a kid who thinks he's in a video game. Gym class dodgeball = RTS or something lmao If you think about it, it could kind of be a game of mini games thrown together...that make sense? Like take a normal situation and try to make a game out it, or "man it would be funny if the character thought a math test was actually stealth game to get the answers from other students without the teacher or the student's noticing!" Have him yell things like "HIGH SCORE HIGH SCORE!!" in a quiet room, idk just spitballing so that's one idea.

In regards to what DespairReigns is talking about, THAT kind of sounds like WIld Arms. Great series. Suikoden 3 kind of did something similar too. Something like that adds to the community's ability to sort of split the massive amount of work it's going to take into smaller more manageable sections...then throw it all together at the end. As for what they are all doing, or what grand goal they are working towards.... hmmmm maybe we can take shinyjiggly's idea and throw in what despair is talkin about. Ex.





P.S. Sorry for being gone for a bit, life tends to get in the way of the fun stuff lol

Just something storyrelated I posted elsewhere and wanted to make sure it was saw.
I suggested the developers activity being 'sleuth' because they would be trapped by reality so to speak (they wouldn't be able to accomplish the superhuman feats we're just so accustomed to seeing in games). I also thought their world could do with a good deal of grey to show whatever was causing it ingame had affected the real world (or vice versa). It would also provide a nice noir effect to a detective part.

Edit: Basically you need to remember if you're putting worlds within worlds they each need their own original story for them to become entangled. This entanglement becomes the point of divergence, otherwise its like this whole crossing reality affair is totally normal. I was also recommending a different play style to break any monotony.

I never thought the layers were that complicated. If we go with multiple projects that all add up to one game, then certainly not so. Hell, if it wouldn't be pretentious as hell I reckon I could whack out a story synopsis under two paragraphs.

I just got the impression if we're going to make a community game then:
1 - It should try to do something new.
2 - It should have something to do with games.

Ummmm, too late. Okay, here's the thing guys. Remember when I asked if we could do 2k3 (or VX Ace) instead of XP? The point here is that at some point you have to go with it, and see if an idea works of not. XP (with whatever custom sprites we want), ultimately works, so long as I'm not doing it.

What doesn't work is not deciding, or drifting back to safe options.

First off, this is a community project, which means a few things, we can stand to be ambitious. This means that anything cliche is more or less out (so no "save the princess" type games). Second, it means that we are actually representing the community. Games about boredom, in general, unless done masterfully, have a strong tendency to make the audience feel boredom. Not so hot. Ditto for whiny emo games. Third, there no rule that says a game can't be weird or meta (Star Ocean 3? Actually very much the concept I just brought up earlier. Kingdom Hearts? Oh no, people swinging around key-shaped weapons and shooting beams of light or darkness at vaguely bunny shaped shadows isn't weird at all). And finally, we can and should brainstorm all day, but the boredom thing was just a first idea. We shouldn't drift back to it, unless we can flush it out all the way. If we can't, then we should definitely move on, until we do in fact have an idea that we can agree on.

The overall theme of any game we should be about teamwork, since this game is about the pride of our community. Other than that, I'll just toss out all the examples possible. But we should not just be like "we already have the one about boredom let's just go with it." Just going with anything won't be enough to get a project off the ground. We need to be deliberate, whatever we decide.

From here, I'll toss out random ideas. I'm not gonna mind regardless, but keep in mind this is about the community. We need to come to some sort of agreement.

1) Amerk's idea:


(no problems here, though it a bit specific on the naming)

2) vvalkingman's idea:


(Keep in mind, no safe options. If we do this, it has to be done because all of us want it, and because all of us have a clear idea of how to implement the ideas. This goes for all stuff, but since we keep drifting back to this, it'd better be good enough for us to keep it)

3) My idea (inspired heavily by Sparrowsmith's talk about things that are "meta"), the whole multi-layer universe thing.

(You'd have to do this well, if you're gonna do it. Just because it's largely my idea, doesn't mean I'll let it in easy)

3b) Jiggly's variant (more to do with a person's conception of reality than the multiple layers)

(This is okay, but again, do it well. Flush out the concept)

4) A tribute game for Secret of Mana, Final Fantasy, or any of the classic SNES games.

(Same as #3. There's plenty of final fantasy ripoffs, but I've only seen a few that really impressed me like the real games did)

5) Based on a book series (Wheel of Time or the Sabriel/Lirael/Abhorsen series would be interesting choices). This would work with the installments thing. The problem being we might have to get the okay on this from the author, and explain that we aren't in fact making money. I don't think Robert Jordan will mind anymore though.

6) Something based on stuff that happens in RRR itself, but woven into the concept of a fantasy story. Likely to be somewhat strange.

7) An idea based on our combined efforts to come up with something. Maybe like a ghost story, where everyone adds a sentence or paragraph, and this makes the whole. (Like someone starts "Once there was a goat..." and Kaust says "that ate humans..." for instance)

If the next two people just pick #2 (or #3), I'm gonna scream. Think carefully about what we wanna do and decide on it. Tell why you chose that, and let's try to settle on something.

----



Let's do 7. We're pretty much guaranteed both to have fun doing it, and more inclined to agree with the result since we all had a part in it. Also, it very much is a new way of doing this. Though we should make it relatively obvious that this is a composite story, if it flows smoothly making perfect sense, the effect is lost.

An incredibly contradictory post. Essentially "Let's not rush into anything, but lets hurry the fck up with an idea".
I explained why I returned to the boredom idea, it was more explaining about the need for two stories in a 'meta' game instead of one.
Combining the two most popular ideas is another method of compromise. Not everything needs a vote where one half become disillusioned because it seems like their ideas are never popular enough. A community is not a democracy.

No, this is not what I mean.

I mean, don't drift into an idea. Decide on it.

Deciding on it, means taking responsibility, thinking it through, and having everyone agree on it. But while you're at it, hurry the fuck up, because right now we're paralyzed by indecision.

Community is about the people in it as a team, democracy is about a vote. Democracy doesn't work anyway. We need closer to something that whatever it takes that everyone agrees on the concept, we make it work, even if it makes zero sense to the audience. Audiences like to have a bit of mind screw every now and then anyway.

Also, let's try to append ideas, rather than vetoing former ones. If we can make everyone's ideas work, so much the better...

Yup. Indecision is the #1 killer of community projects. I've seen plenty fail, been involved in some failures too. People are given tasks but no direction, because nobody can decide on what direction to take...nobody seems to WANT to decide.



What we need is a good solid framework around which to build a game. A story concept with a beginning, middle, and end. We need to know the style and setting. Many of the details, characters, and locations can be worked out over time but a concept must be settled on first.

The Amerk's Treehouse/Island thing with noobs taking over is the only idea that currently presents such a skeletal framework to build on, though in its current form isn't a whole lot to go on.

Here's an example of a skeletal story. You can disregard this as an actual project idea because the current story ideas don't seem to going in this direction at all, but it's just an example I've come up with to demonstrate a viable story for a community project.



Again, I can see the project isn't headed in the final fantasy - like setting. But this is, in my opinion, representative of a good starting point. It has a clear direction, plenty of room for additions and details, and would benefit from a rich, detailed history that people could contribute to. Sidequests and side characters would naturally fit into such a story.

There will be plenty of time for throwing ideas around, but bulmabriefs is absolutely correct, a plan must be made. What's needed is a solid, concrete story concept. Something with focus and direction that provides a good outline of a complete story. You have to build the foundation before you build the house.

Thanks, Turkwise. I work part-time as a volunteer at community theatre, and my "boss" has be help with construction and lighting. He has be open lights all the way, only to be like all "that's not right, close it more, more, now open it, more, more." Not only is that a pet peeve of mine, but we had a game programming class in highschool. All of the kids that weren't in remedial wanted to make an rpg. But despite the fact we were pretty good (btw, this might have something to do with the fact that I can't stand scripts, one command in rpgmaker code often is made from 1000s of lines of script, making it more powerful to just edit a few lines of script well, and use lines of code instead), none of us knew anything about how to actually get C++ to display graphics first of all (even me after reading tons of visual C books, trying the code with the nearby graphics and still not having it compile), and second we couldn't decide on anything, so the more talented kid with code broke away and stopped working on that idea and I got stuck with a kid with an inferiority complex (I had to keep convincing him he wasn't stupid, I mean geez, he's in programming class, and not remedial) who was really into Ronin Warriors. The name of the game we were working on? Oracle of Tao. Seriously, true story. I dug up the concept up, from some scrap papers, and started working on it myself, now that I knew how to use rpgmaker (so much for C script, I'd still be struggling with it), and had it half done in free time while volunteering as a computer assistant for Hospice.

That skeleton above is a workable idea. Just build on it some, adding at least two worlds of play. And lotsa characters.

I'd still say I have a preference for 3, mostly because of how versatile it is.
Teamwork? What represents teamwork more than programmers having to enlist the help of the game characters they themselves created?
Gaming? See above.
and meta... meta is just... the best

but no, my real reason for preferring it is that it makes the work load substantially easier. Not in a cop out kind of way, but in a realistic way. The game can be easily packaged in installments that can stand on their own, and could even be from different engines, featuring different art work (so long as we keep each layer on the same art work) so everyone can work in their area of expertise, and it rolls into the meta thing nicely.
Installments means cliffhangers, something which you can rarely do in video games. From our perspective, this won't be a surprise, but anyone playing the game and encountering the story for the first time, they will flip out when they see "this is just a game" (or some less shitty variation thereof) followed by a "end of chapter" screen.

It puts us in a position where we can start bringing out the games as soon as we have the majority of the story mapped out. Different people can be assigned to different sections. Before each installment is published we all take a look, give criticism, and alter it as necessary.
In an absolute emergency, we can edit and rerelease sections of the game almost effortlessly, and without anyone playing the game to go through the entire game again just to view that one change. This is an emergency failsafe, not because we're likely to need it, but because it's good to have something on hand just in case.


I think this is probably because projects are BIG. No one wants to be the person who kills dozens upon dozens of hours of work with some shitty idea.
Another advantage of multiple chapters. If we have a few paragraphs written out that happen over fifteen-twenty minutes, and all the sprites/music are either available or in development, then anyone can give that chapter a shot, upload it, and then someone else can pick it up, edit it, and pass it along.

Little bites means less pressure.

I'm arguing a little stubbornly towards the whole meta thing, but that's because of this:

The meta idea isn't the best idea possible, but I think it has serious merits.

The versatile nature of the meta thing means we can (don't have to) use multiple different methods for the same thing. IE multiple battle systems, multiple menus, multiple ways of setting the mood.
Also, when you acknowledge that you're playing a game, you're allowed to do some pretty off the wall things. I mean, if we're calling ourselves RPG Revolution, don't we have a duty to make sure we try something new

Sorry if this idea has been proposed already, I'm in somewhat of a hurry and I couldn't read through all of them

If this is a sort of game about the RRR Community, then what if it goes in segments. Really short ones.

Like, each member gets his own chapter or section of the game, like a 5-10 minute level. Each member can create their own story, using their style of RPG making stuff.
This way the game wouldn't get old, and each "chapter" would almost be a new game, but still tie in to the original story.

I also heard someone else talk about that they meet up later on, which sounds awesome.

This might be confusing the way I said it, it makes more sense in my head.

EDIT: wait, did someone just say this idea?

With your idea, it wasn't directly said, but it is something that was slightly implied with option 3 (the meta game). It's still a good thing to voice your ideas, even if they do overlap with others. It seems like it would be a very compatible idea with a bunch of the story ideas that are floating around here.

And that is what I mean by giving a good reason. Heck we could even use multiple engines (or at the very least, radically different sprites and mapsets) if some people have preferences, since now you're saying it's just a game, you can be changing what's real. Have sidescrollers one game, direct attacks another (like 2k3 default), and have one of the later ones can have technical sidescrollers but various enemies who can attack the screen (via special attack, and making the player an enemy that can't be targetted by normal attacks, since it's immune to everything, though you'd have to have the player run in a victory).

On the cliffhanger thing, most of the save files are okay to be non-transferable, but the last cliffhanger should definitely be using same stuff as the next to the last, and we need a common map where you save and move the save file to, where it will then load a teleport to the new event. The very last installment should not be a new game, but the ending and epilogue (possibly with the option after the credits to meet avatar sprites of the production team). This also prevents people from just seeing the ending as they've gotta send the savefile from the ending, and starting from the New Game won't work.

In general, the only thing we need keep the same is the game's title. Which I'll make a separate section for, since we don't want all the energy devoted to the story to get lost on thinking up a title.

MEands, yes that was my option 7. Which we could do on some level, even if we pick option three.

(As I said, the first episode of the game can be a conventional fantasy/horror story)

I think I mentioned the possibility of different engines somewhere earlier, and different graphics. Something along the lines of:
Layer 1 (the first game) cliche game sprites (RTP?)
RTP battle system (or similar) etc

Layer 2 more 'real' looking sprites, but still noticeably game like.
battles held on map, but with menus

Layer 3 the most realistic system in general for the programmers who 'made' the game.
battles held in real time on the map. No inventory, etc.

As for save files, I've been thinking about this, and maybe we just shouldn't have any (except for the very very end).
My reasoning is pretty much this: Each game will (generally) be short enough to play in a sitting, maybe two (so maybe save files within a game) but then it ends and you go to the next chapter. If there is a character change (layer jump) then the previous save file is unimportant, but when we return to the character from before, why preserve what work was done in a single sitting?
Instead, we give the player a set inventory, a set level, and a set of skills that they have to use in each particular game (maybe even put a timer on it) and the focus becomes skill. Can you beat chapter 6? That's it. You can't grind your levels, or find a loophole in the skills system, you just work with what you're given.

I can imagine players might not like this though, in which case we'll have to have some kind of common map, you're right. How about:

At the end of each chapter (this is layer dependent by the way) once the screen has faded to black, the player is transported to an 'opening map' and a variable is altered. The game is then saved and closes.
When the next chapter that takes place on that layer begins, it opens the save file, and an event checks the variable value to see if the player really has played the previous chapter. Problem solved.

Also, I've been thinking more about a concrete storyline for the layering idea. Just putting it out there if we're at the 'pitching' part of the process. Not much point in typing the whole thing out if barely anyone is on board with it.

The main theme is that the games that make up the layers are online games. This reinforces the online community and the feeling of cooperation in the game, I think anyway, and explains the chat features within the game (that the characters never question until they asked about it) that allows the programmers to talk to the characters within the game.

You don't need a variable, just the save file. If you push to new game, the start location is in a screen that says "please play game 1 first." Copying and pasting the save file means you load in that screen. Only, it has different code now, and teleports you (after a brief "converting information" message) to the new game parts. This is the reason for identical maps; it's a save file, this means everything is saved. Unfortunately, 2k3 used .lsd files to do this, and XP uses rxdata probably. And I have no clue what VX uses. As transitioning happens from engine to engine, expect those characters to be more or less lost forever. The main story can be retained but we'd need some safeguard against people skipping around.

What we could do, however is make a save file that is inside a locked WinRar or zip file. If game one is XP and game two is VX, you can have game one with game two's savefile locked inside it. It won't store stats from game one (because well, it can't), but it will start the game from a load file while trying to start without it (and without being able to unlock the coded storage) is virtually impossible, since instead you get the "please play game # first" message. Zip files can be done pretty easily, just read here. At the end of a game, you tell people "the save password is ...." and they can open it, and copy for the next game. Here's an example. Good luck opening it without removing the seal.

(Let's try this again...)

See, the problem with just copying over the save file is that they would have to use different maps. If they ALL use the same map then you can do this:
1-2-5-6-3-4-3-4-2-6
but upon repeating sections of the game (with your power characters) the variables you have saved will mess up and break the save file. So we need a safe guard.
1 (set game variable to 2 - save game) 2(check game variable = 2, if not, end game, if true, begin game)

As for different engines (if we use them) you just have several different save files being copied around:
A=Layer 1 B=Layer 2 C=Layer 3
1A 2A 1B 3A 2B 3B 4B 1C 4A 5A 5B 2C 3C 6B 4C 7B 5C 6C 8B 7C 8C 9C...
Where the number indicates the save file.

So at the end of 2A, you keep the save file.
Begin a new game for 1B. Keep the save file at the end of 1B
3A (important 2A save file)
2B (important 1B save file)

I think that would work.
I'm a little off put by the lack of input from anyone else by this point. I'd prefer criticism of the ideas we're throwing around than silence.

I'm sorry, but how in the world is this possible across multiple game engines?

Like this:


Each engine deals exclusively with a layer
EG: 2k3 - layer 1 - A
VX - layer 2 - B
XP - layer 3 - C
(this is just an example, we may use the same engine for all three layers)

At the end of each layer 1 game, you get the save file and variable for that layer.
At the end of each layer 2 game, you get the save file and variable for that layer.
At the end of each layer 3 game, you get the save file and variable for that layer.
So:
1A 2A 1B 3A 2B 3B 4B 1C 4A 5A 5B 2C 3C 6B 4C 7B 5C 6C 8B 7C 8C 9C...
is actually
1A 2A ... 3A............ 4A 5A (Layer 1 2K3)
... ... 1B ... 2B 3B 4B ... ... 5B ... ... 6B ... 7B .. ... 8B ... ... (Layer 2 VX)
... ... ... ... ... ... ... 1C ... ... ... 2C 3C ... 4C ... 5C 6C ... 6C 8C 9C (Layer 3 XP)

So it's technically three save files that travel through three separate engines, but the plot takes place over the entire story.
So (in theory) you could JUST play Layer 1 without any problems, the plot would just stop making sense.
To play 4A, you have to have played 3A
To play 6C, you have to have played 5C

Imagine it like a TV show that jumps between various characters. Exactly the same. It just jumps between different perspectives on the story, and jumps engine too, but you have to play all three layers for the game to make sense.

Well the way I was putting it like my last post is you don't even need the same map. You just have a map (it can even be an opening map, where you construct a "NewGame" is ON event, and save it with that ON, and remove the save option and the switch being turned on, so it starts there from a Load file. If you don't have the right save file, you can't do anything. Then you include the needed savefile locked up, so you have to have the needed code (given after finishing the game) to unlock it.

That is, you have the opening map with two pages:

Page 1
New Game switch ON (add any starting characters and such here)
Save Menu
(after making one save file, which you store for people who completed the previous game, remove the above, including characters, and replace with...)
Message: Please finish the previous game.
Return to Title Screen

Page 2
(Checkbox NewGame ON)
Opening sequences
Teleport to any new maps needed, for more opening sequences

They then unpack the now unlocked file, and have the save game to load the next chapter. Of course, you could have previous chapter new sections this way too, you basically make the file on the game itself (instead of using the same map), and import it as a save file to the game it attaches to. You can even have branching files where one when unlocked only works on game 5, while another choice of events works on game 3.

Since when can saves be used across engines? O.o I'm pretty sure even if it is possible, they were be corrupted. Sorry if I'm confused.

Sorry about the lack of input, I've been moving the last couple of days.
I like the idea of installments for cliffhangers (might make moving between layers a bit more fluent too) but lets try to avoid being too liberal with them. Who's going to want to download 6 times in an hour just to see what happened next. Also we'd have to include the RTP's in each download as not everyone has every engine, but using more engines would be a good way to encourage more people to contribute a little somethingsomething.

@Lydyn; the way Sparrow illustrated meant that each save would be used with one engine. All layer 1 (the ingame) plot would use a layer 1 save, all layer 3 (the developers world) would use a layer 3 save. If each layer is engine specific I dont see a problem with this. I'm not 100% sure about how Bulma's route works but I know she's good at eventing so I'll just trust her. Either way there's no need to quibble about such a detail on this (storybased) thread.

How can I put this...

You know how each of your games has a different save file, but you can load and play each one individually?
Imagine that, only all of your games are each telling a DIFFERENT part of the SAME story.

That's essentially what the plan is at the moment. To have multiple games each with several sequels, but the games are very short. The Sequels can use the save files of the previous game in that layer, and all the games together make up a story. The save files don't go across engines, the story does that, the save files go between games kept on the same engine.
Hope this is cleared up now.


Kaust makes a good point. We've outlined at least two ways we could successfully pull off multiple engines being used. We can work out the details later, for now lets get back to the story.
If we go with layers (I'm still not hearing objections to this, which is worrying, or good? Hard to tell) then I think we should have a tangible entity that is the 'bad guy' so to speak, and have the gaming abstractions be obstacles.
Example: Enemies in layer 2 (where I imagine a lot of the story will take place) can be damaged programs/monsters from layer 1 that have been hacked out/etc. However, certain 'off-limits' areas of the world will be unlocked to the player, and these areas won't be finished. This means the player has to navigate unfinished maps (maybe even complete them) so they can get through.

I have some more ideas regarding enemies in layer 3, over arcing plots, etc etc. It's nothing ground-breakingly original, but I think it's pretty unique as a game concept.

I think I have an idea for major boss (possibly final boss, unless we wanna have a trick final boss, followed by something random, like Necros for Final Fantasy IX).

You know how the story revolves around a sort of "russian doll" version of reality, with layers after layers? And then I thought of it like a box and figured on a rather famous box that causes depair. Yea, like the Pandora box.

Main Design: Not a over-the-top villain that makes grand boasts of "soon I will rule everything." Actually, it's the opposite, for much of the game, it seems like a rather harmless recurring miniboss. Each time you meet it (besides maybe the final time), it should be like the prized monster of some other leader, so you dismiss it as harmless (this works best when names aren't shown for it in battle), and do little damage compared with the leader. It should be like a hermit crab in that its container gradually gets larger. When you first find it, it should be in a small crate with a lock of it. There should be some dark shadow inside or around the thing, but after one hit of damage (to the lock), the lock breaks and the crate flees. You see it again later as a bigger than average mimic boss (again, open the lock, and the creature flees), and then as a huge urn over top some shadow with eyes. This time hitting it a bunch of times causes the urn to shatter, and you see this huge shadow (transform events are your friend). This should actually start to mess things up (before every now and then you were headed to a new layer, but this creates some sort of distortion where the screen shakes and a portal appears (sorta like in Chrono Trigger when Magus is defeated and everything messes up)). The very last time, it's the screen itself, with a black fog backdrop, and the screen is effectively its box.

Long installments are better. Lydyn, you can have savefiles from other engines if you have the next game's savefile stored on this game's extra files. It's a gimmick, but it's kinda cool.



Heh, I'm actually not a girl, I just like Dragon Ball. I can actually demonstrate it with pictures.

At the opening screen, turn on the New Game switch, and then save the game. (Don't blame the complete lack of art, this is a demonstration I made in only a few minutes)

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/687/tutorial1j.png
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/580/tutorial2h.png
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/12/tutorial3xp.png

Obviously, a lot better than this suckiness, but you get the idea. This is the part II storyline playing out, after the save. Now, go back and remove the New Game switch, and the save menu on page 2. Replace this with a return to title screen, and this message.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/195/tutorial4aq.png

So, now unless you use the load menu, every time you try to start from new game (unless you wanna edit the code), you're pretty much stopped. Normally, you'd do this game to game moving the savefile, but if you're using multiple engines, this is an impossibility. Heck, retaining stats is an impossibility too, but you can probably work around this by doing either an assumed level (based on limits, like the max level for game 1 is ten, so the character starts at level 10) or by editing the database (more on that later). So, no, you're not really doing "cross-engine" you're making a simple file in that engine, and then copying it to hide somewhere in another folder (maybe your XP folder). You get rid of the one in the first game so you have to at least have the first game, and move it over to the second one. If you really wanna be mean, you make it so you have to actually finish the first game, and collect a password.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/859/tutorial5a.png
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/32/tutorial5b.png
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/819/tutorial5c.png

This is pretty much it. You then make a locked zip file, as shown above with the attached file GameSave.zip. You basically switch engines, but keep the same story. Now, if you later wanna go back to the same characters, you can edit the database.

EDITING DATABASE:

In 2k3, there's a file called .ldb (and other engines probably have a similar one, but I'm less experienced with them. You could probably do this by altering scripts, though). You can make a copy of this and alter it. Example, the ending screen where you'd save the file, and/or give out this password mentioned above. Make a common event called GameFileFlag AFTER the save menu (so as to save stats of characters). Map events are stored in the lmt file, and also in their personal maps, but common events, character info, monsters, and monster troops are all stored in the ldb file. Make a branch inside this common event, making it look like this:

variable GameFlag is 0
Condition: GameFlag is 0
(Tell the password. This is for the first time of gameplay)
Else
Condition: GameFlag is 1
(Teleport to new area, give new cinema events)
Else
Condition: GameFlag is 2
(Teleport to new area, give new cinema events)

(etc)
End

Instead of a save file, give an altered ldb file (1,2, etc, as GameFlag instead of zero) in a zip folder, possibly with a few more map files added as well, and this copy will pretty much allow you to load the same game where it would've ended, in a new area.

Okay, let me get my zone and let's see what I can come up with in this short five - ten minute burst of random inspiration...

Ready....

Go...

So, seeing as how this is a community project for a forum, what if we took this forum and made it a sort of litteral world. Each forum being a kingdom, the mods being the kings, the users the NPC's and Character refrences, and the Admins the powers-that-be.

The story begins, as I see. With our user registering into the forum. He goes through the breif registration office in the office before being released into the vast open-ended world of Revolution.

The main plot hook is the open-ended exploreation, but of course nothing is perfect in these types of games, something is amiss. A deep plauge trudges over the lands.

A dark power has been amassing power, and a dark corruption is spreading across the land spreading a sort of digital rot on the boards and killing all activity in the areas cause entire forums to freeze and wither and die.

It's up to the new user to recruit the other members in an attempt to get the post count and praticipation going, by locateing resources and by pushing back the curroption and finding the source.

The source? Who knows, let's all decide the ending together.

----

Gameplay concepts involved ---

-Open-Ended world that emphasizes player exploration.

-A system where the player can recruit anywhere from 20-60 uniqe actors, each representing a member of the forum and a bit of there personality.

-A very personal community game, doing something directly reflecting our community here will really express how this game is for us and those working on it, and not just another RPG.

-Uniqe concept, turing that of thought into a physical world. It's been done before yes, but honestly how often.

-Custom main actor, perhaps a way for the player to truly register themselves.

-A "Post Count" system where players spend PC in order to buy new skills.

-Who knows?

==---===---===---===---==

Please give me some feed back on this, for those who take the time to read it.

Wow, that actually sounds pretty interesting! A great thing about this idea is that a lot of the things (like what areas there are going to be, ) are already laid out. Also, the way that things are already presented even now make the transition even easier (levels, types, RM skill, etc...).

We could also incorporate "rev points" (those points that you get for participating in contests) with this as well. Perhaps those could be used to gain access to new spells?
Also, because these boards are centered around building RPG's, maybe that could be the replacement for religions? (if you've ever seen an XP vs VX fight, you'd get what I mean) Also, the player would probably want to pick one for alignment purposes (which may or may not affect anything depending on those that he wishes to be in cahoots with). To make things simple, the choices offered to the player would be RM2K3, RMXP, RMVX, RMVXAce, Other maker A, Other maker B, and Game maker. Each one would have their own perks and disadvantages when it comes to trying to get help.
And all this while, the character would be making an RPG in their engine of choice (most likely unplayable, but would allow for problem solving with problems in the code/script/eventing.) Some things will only be solvable by community help and sometimes resources will need to be made. That is where the traveling to the land of the forums comes in. By recruiting others in Recruitment city, you can get those things done, it you're lucky. If you just want to talk about specific problems in your game, you'll have to go to the correct forum town.
If you talk about the wrong thing in the wrong forum town, the mods will come and take you to the correct one while giving you a light scolding. If you somehow become too obscene to even utter a single syllable in public, you'll be taken to temp ban jail. But because this is a game (which in this case probably won't be stated anywhere within it), there has to be something that causes people to do these things.
Because some people are even afraid of this mysterious thing, they will stop talking until you find a way to remove them from the specific forum. Also, after a while, you'll probably get noticed for doing that much around the forums and people will try to join your cause (a mix of regular members, revolutionaries, staff members, and gold members; one of each type probably). They will all eventually become apart of your party for getting rid of the unknown enemies. Also, your party members will be more likely to help you with your RPG project, maybe even crossing engine boundaries to help if needed.

The different classes will be the things included in the "Type" section for a poster. (example, I'm a beginner-level artist so I will know some beginner-level art-related skills/attacks) The poster's base level will most likely be their level as of now or some other time. They would probably look like their avatars (example: XMO would be rendered as constantly changing anime boys/a funny little magenta ball). Because the main character is supposed to be a customized person, there should be a method of using your own sprites for the character by importing appropriate picture files. Of course, it would also have to come with some pre-made stuff for those that don't want to mess with things like that. The player would then be able to chose their type and they would start out as a beginner at level one with zero posts. They would probably arrive at introductions train station or something like that.

So well put Shiny! So well put!

Yeah, my favourite anime boy characters are in my ever-changing avatar, but I'd much prefer being a "funny little magenta ball". XD

Wait I don't want to be psycho Shion.

It's too late MEands, you've been typecasted. Also, I'm apparently female (and bluehaired).

The idea sounds okay until you mention 20-60 characters. That's a bit insane. Chrono Cross had about as many characters, but they each ended up getting like three plot scenes, and it kinda turned into a "collect 'em all." That many characters spread out over installments is only a few per game if spaced out over about 5-6 chapters. And you'd actually have time to develop them. Otherwise, no.

At least I'm a good anime.

Here, I don't know if this is a weird idea, or if it's already been said, but like:
Not really chapters, but like, character scenes.
Lets say the game starts with one member, he/she is just going on with their day, when the main plot appears. idk what happens, the main villain stole his cat or something, he goes after him. So after he does some quest or defeats a final boss, then it transitions to a new member's scene.
You now play as this other member, possibly being affected by the main villain, but maybe not. Eventually this member runs into the member from scene 1, and they end up fighting. After their fight, they decide to join forces (maybe).
The joining forces might make it easier to have each character in the game. Instead of a different story for each character, we could group them up and have stories about their party.

just a thought

Well, not everybody needs to be a potential party member. They can be present somewhere, but probably not all party members. The question is, how do we pick out which members will become party members?

We could do it the easy way and make a thread of what each member would like to be in the game.
They won't necessarily get what they want, but it would make each character's background a little easier to write.
Like, a characters page.

(I dunno the actual source anime for my avvie. I used it instead in my game)

That would be interesting, have instead of layers various section on different perspectives. The villain managed to wrong ALL these people, and they eventually band together against him/her. Heck we could have various people choose sides (the main villain's or the hero's) and sorta have their story on how they joined one another before there's some kinda bloodbath (each villain character is a boss, and could submit their strategy of strengths and weaknesses, as well as a few heroic sacrifices for lesser heroes).

I still think we should have installments, and possibly experiment with multiple engines, but this could work.

As previously mentioned, I can't do much contribution to XP since it's not really my engine. So yea, you might as well expy Ambrosia from Oracle of Tao, but this time she's a villain (easy, she's bitter and crazy cause her bf Nevras left her for another girl). She's a glass cannon btw (nearly killer magic and attack, but extremely weak in defense and hp, and at least one of her spells should have delay, as well as the others drawing from hp rather than mp. Not how her powers normally work, but they're sorta twisted from insanity). More or less a cameo boss though.

Well, that or an equally bitter and crazy bartender/shopkeep.

-----

Before we make a new thread, is this more or less okay with everyone? Don't wanna keep changing plots. Although each character's plot can still be discussed here if people like this idea.

Installments could still work.
We'd need to make sure people don't make their character's backstory, "Was the strongest person ever and is awesome"

lol, we don't even know the motive of the main villain. If this is a humor game the villain could be a really bad game designer who distorts worlds because he doesn't know how to program. I've kinda been really interested in making a cool villain, if someone could give me a chance, I could probably make a pretty cool bad guy.
(Also, if people decide to make the choose your character's bio thing, could I start the thread? I want to be important )

I'm pretty adamant that the most any contributor gets is a cameo. I just think having some who are heroes will diminish those who are npcs. And who wants to be that clumsy villain that trips over his own shoelaces. No-one wants to be Baku. Much.

Bulma's right; we can't keep this thread going forever. I'm a little confused with how this new plot is going, would someone mind putting it all together in some coherent fashion (something should definitely be renamed Rev Points Shiny ). Possibly this could be combined with the metagame idea. Idk if any of you played any of the .HACK games (or saw the anime) but it was starting to take a real good turn in that direction.

Or an incoherent fashion. Let's see, Sparrowhawk wants a multilayer universe, MEands wants sorta character perspective, Amerk said something about noobs taking over a treehouse. And Vvalking said something about happiness and the fight against boredom. Put em together and what do ya got? (Bibidi Babidi Buu) A coherent plot, sorta.

The setting starts as some group of kids, whose main purpose is "to seek adventure and defeat boredom" get knocked out of their treehouse by some thugs (noobs). They try to fight to get it back (but this is one of those battles where the party loses horribly no matter what they do). They realize that they need to go on an EPIC QUEST to get their treehouse back (it's kinda tongue in cheek, but it might get more serious later), picking up some impressive sword or something. On the way, by accident, one of them fulls down a hole and finds something else, a box named Pandora that he accidentally frees from its chains. It runs off, or rather hops off (this later becomes a semi-recurring boss, and the final boss, until the true final boss, if you did everything right for the best ending, the programmer). Meanwhile, the story sets up a very much false final boss, which you actually end up killing in the first game. There are 10 short chapters: Chapter 1 is the main party's story, eight more chapters of individuals in single or pair and how the fake final boss slighted them (these become the reserve teams and extra members, and we could look into having a double or triple party, which can solve puzzles). In Chapter 10, they all get together, and fight the final boss. Right after that, we have a sort of moment where a group of teenagers/college kids are in an arcade talking about their victory. That ends the first installment (whew... though it lasts only about 3 hours). The second, would be showing these kids in chapters of their own as they go to school. At some point, one of the finds a strange box, and after opening it, decides to toss it into the trash. This story revolves heavily around gamers involved in some sort of event in the "real world". Let's go with sort of an Earthbound theme, of violent humans and animals becoming wild. They figure out the cause of this menace, and stop it. Which switches scenes yet again to a bunch of programmers talking about their latest realistic RPG. That ends the second installment (this should be shorter than the first). Over the course of this next installment you find out about the various programmers, and that what you thought was real life teenagers was in fact the very RPG they just mentioned. This should first mention the programmer who is to be a final boss. Also, during this chapter, and exploring the town that these programmers live in, there's echoes of previous chapters, teenagers getting eaten by wild dogs, and some kids finally manage to reclaim their treehouse with a "sacred" baseball bat (yes, I've watched Paranoia Agent). There should also once again be a brief appearance of this strange package, but here it should be minor, like a background even happening while the main characters are all talking about their next big game. There should at this point, be some pretty heavy hints that this world isn't really real, through surreal imagery. At the end of this installment, a character wakes up from a dream (doesn't get shown officially until the next one, for reasons you'll see). This is the player, who unlike the others is chosen by name and sprite and this chapter is entirely about him rather than switching perspective. It ends with him ordering an urn from Amazon, which attacks him, and reveals that it is the container of evil, Pandora. The box talks about switching dimensions, and we see the background change a few times during the battle. It also says something about how the world YOU (yea you there, watching this game) think is real could also be an illusion (you then have to fight the screen itself). After this battle, we meet the evil programmer, who made all this, by flunking computer science. And then whatever ending we can decide on.

If this is okay with everyone, I'd say start a character design page.