I can deal with Ralph being in...
...as long as his role is purposefully satirical. Yeah.
Full Version: Top five mistakes you see in a game
I have been playing a few RPG Maker games and have found:
1. Only showing information once
People (or, me) tend to skip through messages really quickly if there are a lot of them. If you're then thrown into a massive world, and the message said "go and see x", if I've skipped the messages I don't have a clue where to go. Either the ability to go back and read the message again, or some kind of journal, is desirable.
2. Lack of save points after the introduction
If you have a long cutscene to begin a game HAVE A SAVE POINT AFTER IT. I'm unlikely to go through said cutscene again if I've done it once, and if I die at the beginning of the game, as seems to happen a lot, then I've got to start over.
3. Unclear save locations
A random house in the middle of a forest, which has 20 other houses in it, which has a book inside the bedroom upstairs with nothing pointing to it, is the only way to save? No thanks.
4. Dying too easily at the beginning
I'm not going to get into a game well if I keep dying right at the start. You need to ease players in, the game getting more difficult as you get used to the controls.
5. A world map joined together by smaller field maps which don't line up
If I have a world map, showing ARGEN in the bottom left and TUBANARI in the top right, I will expect, if I go through 100 field maps, that heading towards the top right will generally bring me out in the right place. People seem to just link maps together willy nilly and you can end up on average heading south-west to get to a north-east destination!
1. Only showing information once
People (or, me) tend to skip through messages really quickly if there are a lot of them. If you're then thrown into a massive world, and the message said "go and see x", if I've skipped the messages I don't have a clue where to go. Either the ability to go back and read the message again, or some kind of journal, is desirable.
2. Lack of save points after the introduction
If you have a long cutscene to begin a game HAVE A SAVE POINT AFTER IT. I'm unlikely to go through said cutscene again if I've done it once, and if I die at the beginning of the game, as seems to happen a lot, then I've got to start over.
3. Unclear save locations
A random house in the middle of a forest, which has 20 other houses in it, which has a book inside the bedroom upstairs with nothing pointing to it, is the only way to save? No thanks.
4. Dying too easily at the beginning
I'm not going to get into a game well if I keep dying right at the start. You need to ease players in, the game getting more difficult as you get used to the controls.
5. A world map joined together by smaller field maps which don't line up
If I have a world map, showing ARGEN in the bottom left and TUBANARI in the top right, I will expect, if I go through 100 field maps, that heading towards the top right will generally bring me out in the right place. People seem to just link maps together willy nilly and you can end up on average heading south-west to get to a north-east destination!
QUOTE (Amy Pond @ Aug 16 2012, 02:21 PM) 
4. Dying too easily at the beginning
I'm not going to get into a game well if I keep dying right at the start. You need to ease players in, the game getting more difficult as you get used to the controls.
I'm not going to get into a game well if I keep dying right at the start. You need to ease players in, the game getting more difficult as you get used to the controls.
I just hope you weren't referring to mine
Anyway, I've a good list of things I hate:1. Bad enemies' AI
Let's imagine a group made up of two enemies, and let's imagine one of them has 1% HP and the other one 100% HP. The injured one uses Heal 2 and... heals the monster with 100% HP.
This is kinda the worst experience I had in that field... and it really led me to leave the game unfinished;
2. Exaggerated random encounters' rate
An enemy every two or three steps, when you're desperately looking for a heal point/save point. That's really annoying. Sometimes, this made me want to throw my PC on the floor and jump on it.
3. Two hours and half dungeons without save points
Final Fantasy III - Tower of Syrcus -> Boss -> World of Darkness -> 4 Crystal Bosses -> Final Boss - without saving.
I feel I need no other words.
If you don't know it, just keep in mind that if you die, you have to restart from the Tower's beginning.
4. A too fast plot
opening cutscene -> two maps -> first boss -> two maps -> second boss...
Damn! Gimme at least a dungeon to explore... or insert some dialogue!
Bosses every twenty minutes...
5. Cheap final bosses
Okay, this is the end of the game.
Okay, this is the final boss... but damn! You can't give'em an attack which kills instantly three between your four party members!
This is absurd!
To make matters worse, this is actually the kind of things I hate, since it looks like you won't be able to see the ending after 10+ hours gameplay...
Jens
I realize this is a gripe thread to complain about things you dislike in rm games, but I'd like to comment on a few things I've noticed, maybe a list of five things that I dislike seeing as an amateur developer.
1. Far too much complaining about the RTP, this is a game developer for amateur designers, meaning a lot of us lack talent in one field or another, and most of us are too new to find people who want to help with our pet projects. The RTP is designed for developers like that. Don't assume the creator lacks skills making a good story or an interesting character because they use RTP. As they say, never judge a book by it's cover.
2. Jumping to Conclusions - Quitting and never touching a game again because it touched upon a nerve, or lacked something you like.I can understand if it's full of that or just downright offensive, but perhaps what you were offended by was important to the character or story, maybe it's designed to offend you and make you dislike a character, give it time before you judge something so harshly.
3. Quitting - I see a lot of 'I put the game down forever' type comments, which leads me to believe you don't bother commenting on the game session and letting the creator know what you thought was wrong. Remember that we are all amateurs here, no one works for a giant game company, we NEED this kind of feedback so that we can improve. We live off your opinions!
4. Judging as though these are commercial games - Don't get me wrong, if you compare my project to a commercial game, I couldn't be more flattered, but just take that game with a grain of salt. Remember we are working with a limited system as amateurs, we make mistakes and would love to improve upon those. I've gone back and looked at my first project and blanched, it was painful how many mistakes I made, and I would never have known that if not for the opinions of my play testers. If they had just gotten annoyed and shut it off, my game would still be a POS.
5. RTP - I post this twice because it's such an issue, RTP exists to be used. Yes, it would be lovely if we all had the talent to make our own music and graphics and scripts and everything, yet we don't. This is why it's here. Personally, I would rather have a game full of RTP then see graphics ripped from some commercial game, with the exception of a fan game obviously.
I guess the bottom line of what I'm saying is; while it's important to have a good game and to judge it, it's also important to take it with a grain of salt as we are still all newbies at this and working with a limited program. It's simple really, don't judge a game on just one aspect, take it as a whole and simply remember the limitations someone may be working under.
1. Far too much complaining about the RTP, this is a game developer for amateur designers, meaning a lot of us lack talent in one field or another, and most of us are too new to find people who want to help with our pet projects. The RTP is designed for developers like that. Don't assume the creator lacks skills making a good story or an interesting character because they use RTP. As they say, never judge a book by it's cover.
2. Jumping to Conclusions - Quitting and never touching a game again because it touched upon a nerve, or lacked something you like.I can understand if it's full of that or just downright offensive, but perhaps what you were offended by was important to the character or story, maybe it's designed to offend you and make you dislike a character, give it time before you judge something so harshly.
3. Quitting - I see a lot of 'I put the game down forever' type comments, which leads me to believe you don't bother commenting on the game session and letting the creator know what you thought was wrong. Remember that we are all amateurs here, no one works for a giant game company, we NEED this kind of feedback so that we can improve. We live off your opinions!
4. Judging as though these are commercial games - Don't get me wrong, if you compare my project to a commercial game, I couldn't be more flattered, but just take that game with a grain of salt. Remember we are working with a limited system as amateurs, we make mistakes and would love to improve upon those. I've gone back and looked at my first project and blanched, it was painful how many mistakes I made, and I would never have known that if not for the opinions of my play testers. If they had just gotten annoyed and shut it off, my game would still be a POS.
5. RTP - I post this twice because it's such an issue, RTP exists to be used. Yes, it would be lovely if we all had the talent to make our own music and graphics and scripts and everything, yet we don't. This is why it's here. Personally, I would rather have a game full of RTP then see graphics ripped from some commercial game, with the exception of a fan game obviously.
I guess the bottom line of what I'm saying is; while it's important to have a good game and to judge it, it's also important to take it with a grain of salt as we are still all newbies at this and working with a limited program. It's simple really, don't judge a game on just one aspect, take it as a whole and simply remember the limitations someone may be working under.
I agree with the RTP to a point. If you're looking to make a commercial project, it's generally the cheapest you'll find (since you already paid for it), and there's very few resources available for commercial projects that don't cost a lot of money. However, there are a few available (First Seed Material, as well as cheap resource packs on RMWeb such as the Samuarai Pack and Lunarea's Modern Pack).
However, for non-commercial games, there are plenty to choose from. I've played plenty of games with the RTP and it all boils down to how well they are used, but that doesn't mean you should rely 100% on the RTP.
Little things like changing the default character names, sprites, faces, adding in sprites, maybe finding different music, all of these go a long way in making a game stand out.
But when I see a game with bland mapping skills using the sole tileset RTP, and the title screen is the default Town05 and image, and the first character I get is a guy named Ralph that looks like RTP Ralph... well, I wonder just how much the game designer is really putting into their game and whether or not he should have waited and practiced awhile longer.
However, for non-commercial games, there are plenty to choose from. I've played plenty of games with the RTP and it all boils down to how well they are used, but that doesn't mean you should rely 100% on the RTP.
Little things like changing the default character names, sprites, faces, adding in sprites, maybe finding different music, all of these go a long way in making a game stand out.
But when I see a game with bland mapping skills using the sole tileset RTP, and the title screen is the default Town05 and image, and the first character I get is a guy named Ralph that looks like RTP Ralph... well, I wonder just how much the game designer is really putting into their game and whether or not he should have waited and practiced awhile longer.
That is exactly my point. That's not the fault of someone using the RTP, that is someone who does not want to bother putting in any effort.
Using the default RTP doesn't mean you are lazy or uncreative, but HOW you use it can display that. I can also understand that when you see a game with RTP you assume it has no effort put into it and just look away, it's hard to break from such a habit after having seen so many bland games. I just think that a game should not be judged until it's been given a bit of play time, not even a lot just five or ten minutes.
Using the default RTP doesn't mean you are lazy or uncreative, but HOW you use it can display that. I can also understand that when you see a game with RTP you assume it has no effort put into it and just look away, it's hard to break from such a habit after having seen so many bland games. I just think that a game should not be judged until it's been given a bit of play time, not even a lot just five or ten minutes.
I think I'll comment on yours first.
1. Poor character development. As I said before, despite all attempts to be "original" someone has done it before. You may even be unconsciously basing a character off one you've seen. So the way to improve this is to build their past. If not, all the characters end up walking stereotypes.
2. Artsy fartsy nonsense. Having a new custom battle design is fine. But if it doesn't work, it's toast. There should be some way of restoring lost skills, some way of resting and recovering life, etc. Even if it's not traditional. We don't care about your "concept", we care about it working of not. Awhile back someone was discussing bleeding/wounds as a battle system. Good, but you must have items to remove bleeding status. Same for gold (you can have a no monster drops thing, but they need to drop sellable items).
3. Lack of polish. Bad grammar/spelling, glitches, and even just the inability to eyecatch are all things that cause me to stop playing within an hour. On that matter, a good game has quests that can be done, and are written down in a journal.
4. Lack of strategy. Spamming spells in one thing, making spells elemental is another.
5. (Can't think of any) Oh yea. RTP snobs. Regardless of the sprites used, is it a good game?
QUOTE (slifer644 @ Feb 15 2012, 04:17 PM)
Like the title says, what do find in game maker games that just ruin a game for you?
1. 5 house villages
Okay, how in the world can a village sustain itself if there are at most (based on my own formula for constructing which is 3 people min. to a house) 15 people? I was a major offender to this ( actually the more I think about what I hate, the more I realize I've done these), not putting much thought into making these villages. Another problem with having only a few houses in a town is that you can't have too many people without making it very unbelievable. For me, a fantasy village shoul have around fifty people, a town should have between 75 to 100 people, and a city should have between (this may sound insane) 100 to 200 people.
This may sound shocking, but the average person doesn't talk to people much unless it's a Talk To Everyone puzzle. So, unless you have a bunch of different merchants, this is bad advice, as it slows the pace of the game.
2. Boring/ confusing starts
When you start a game you can't just throw someone into it without a little bit of back story (unless your game is mostly a flashback up until halfway through). Having the player guessing what's going on is good, unless their still trying to guess twenty minutes into it, that's when you've gone overboard. The same applies to having the player do the same thing over and over again at the beginning till they reach a certain level and the begin the story. You have to give a little in both story and action to keep the player interested.
Big prologues themselves can get boring. Sometimes it's better to throw the character into the field and have things react as they exit town or go exploring.
3. Underpowered enemies/ overpowered heroes
A big problem with making the enemies easy for the player to kill quickly is that it makes it seem unrealistic. If you're gonna make the fight a human enemy, you should atleast give the enemy the same amount or half that of your weakest character. This will make the battles
more tactical than just pressing the strongest spell you've got once in order to kill them (unless they're a spider or some small creature, cause that does make sense then). The only exception to this rile is if that attack is a finisher attack, cause then you're good.
The reverse can actually be quite frustrating. Game balance is horribly subjective, and worse for the random aspects. The enemies can be slightly more powerful, but unless they're deep game bosses and you haven't been leveling (I think the whole "no grind" thing is a copout), enemies should not be dealing more than 1k-2k, and definitely not 1-hit-killing. A one hit kill means you have no defense strategy, and you'll die if out of restore potions, which you probably can't earn if most of the early enemies 1 hit kill. The enemy shouldn't fall in one hit, although spamming magic is okay. You just have to buy magic pots.
4. Unoriginal settings/ unoriginal characters
I find that if I start some where that looks alot (alot... Hehehe) like that of a popular game that I've already seen, then that's just laziness. The same goes for characters in that if the the protagonist seems framiliar then it just seems like somebody is trying to get free ideas. The exception to this is if it is a fan game, then you're good. Originality keeps the game flavorful and draws the player into it more.
Every game is derivative in some way. Understanding this is the first step both to making a parody game, and improving on a game so that it isn't such a cliche. Originality isn't the issue. It's character development. Even if every rpg girl looks like Terra and ever guy looks like Cloud, the real key is uniqueness of their personality, and backstory writing.
5. Forgetfulness
It is annoying when you get sent all over a flipping dungeon just to find a stupid that, guess what, you didn't even need in the first place. When the creator forgets that he put in a subquest and then scraps it later without removing what was in that subquest just gets annoying when the player finds it. Its even more frustrating when a player leaves the gameand the forgets what they were doing and can't figure out what they need to do.
This one is true, as I've been guilty of it a few times.
You've hears my rants, lets hear yours.
1. 5 house villages
Okay, how in the world can a village sustain itself if there are at most (based on my own formula for constructing which is 3 people min. to a house) 15 people? I was a major offender to this ( actually the more I think about what I hate, the more I realize I've done these), not putting much thought into making these villages. Another problem with having only a few houses in a town is that you can't have too many people without making it very unbelievable. For me, a fantasy village shoul have around fifty people, a town should have between 75 to 100 people, and a city should have between (this may sound insane) 100 to 200 people.
This may sound shocking, but the average person doesn't talk to people much unless it's a Talk To Everyone puzzle. So, unless you have a bunch of different merchants, this is bad advice, as it slows the pace of the game.
2. Boring/ confusing starts
When you start a game you can't just throw someone into it without a little bit of back story (unless your game is mostly a flashback up until halfway through). Having the player guessing what's going on is good, unless their still trying to guess twenty minutes into it, that's when you've gone overboard. The same applies to having the player do the same thing over and over again at the beginning till they reach a certain level and the begin the story. You have to give a little in both story and action to keep the player interested.
Big prologues themselves can get boring. Sometimes it's better to throw the character into the field and have things react as they exit town or go exploring.
3. Underpowered enemies/ overpowered heroes
A big problem with making the enemies easy for the player to kill quickly is that it makes it seem unrealistic. If you're gonna make the fight a human enemy, you should atleast give the enemy the same amount or half that of your weakest character. This will make the battles
more tactical than just pressing the strongest spell you've got once in order to kill them (unless they're a spider or some small creature, cause that does make sense then). The only exception to this rile is if that attack is a finisher attack, cause then you're good.
The reverse can actually be quite frustrating. Game balance is horribly subjective, and worse for the random aspects. The enemies can be slightly more powerful, but unless they're deep game bosses and you haven't been leveling (I think the whole "no grind" thing is a copout), enemies should not be dealing more than 1k-2k, and definitely not 1-hit-killing. A one hit kill means you have no defense strategy, and you'll die if out of restore potions, which you probably can't earn if most of the early enemies 1 hit kill. The enemy shouldn't fall in one hit, although spamming magic is okay. You just have to buy magic pots.
4. Unoriginal settings/ unoriginal characters
I find that if I start some where that looks alot (alot... Hehehe) like that of a popular game that I've already seen, then that's just laziness. The same goes for characters in that if the the protagonist seems framiliar then it just seems like somebody is trying to get free ideas. The exception to this is if it is a fan game, then you're good. Originality keeps the game flavorful and draws the player into it more.
Every game is derivative in some way. Understanding this is the first step both to making a parody game, and improving on a game so that it isn't such a cliche. Originality isn't the issue. It's character development. Even if every rpg girl looks like Terra and ever guy looks like Cloud, the real key is uniqueness of their personality, and backstory writing.
5. Forgetfulness
It is annoying when you get sent all over a flipping dungeon just to find a stupid that, guess what, you didn't even need in the first place. When the creator forgets that he put in a subquest and then scraps it later without removing what was in that subquest just gets annoying when the player finds it. Its even more frustrating when a player leaves the gameand the forgets what they were doing and can't figure out what they need to do.
This one is true, as I've been guilty of it a few times.
You've hears my rants, lets hear yours.
1. Poor character development. As I said before, despite all attempts to be "original" someone has done it before. You may even be unconsciously basing a character off one you've seen. So the way to improve this is to build their past. If not, all the characters end up walking stereotypes.
2. Artsy fartsy nonsense. Having a new custom battle design is fine. But if it doesn't work, it's toast. There should be some way of restoring lost skills, some way of resting and recovering life, etc. Even if it's not traditional. We don't care about your "concept", we care about it working of not. Awhile back someone was discussing bleeding/wounds as a battle system. Good, but you must have items to remove bleeding status. Same for gold (you can have a no monster drops thing, but they need to drop sellable items).
3. Lack of polish. Bad grammar/spelling, glitches, and even just the inability to eyecatch are all things that cause me to stop playing within an hour. On that matter, a good game has quests that can be done, and are written down in a journal.
4. Lack of strategy. Spamming spells in one thing, making spells elemental is another.
5. (Can't think of any) Oh yea. RTP snobs. Regardless of the sprites used, is it a good game?
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