If anyone has seen my last thread, they know what I'm up to and why I ask. If you haven't, I am making a language

Syllable Structure:

So, as stated in my last thread, I have read Mark and Pablo's sites a lot now, and I've already created much of my language, but Syllable structure is still foggy to me. I know that one can create their own phonological constraints, but I've having problems understanding the syllable structure code (or whatever it is called xD). Like so: " © (V) © © V (V) © ©". (random example)

Does this basic building block restrict words from ever forming the opposite of what you build? What does the C/V (Consonant and Vowel) mean when out of the "()"? The minimal C/V, right?

What I mean is what if I have "© (V) © © V (V) © ©" for my Syllable Structure. Would that mean each and every word had to start with a consonant (or vice-versa) and that it was -- depending on the Syllable Structure you created -- impossible to do otherwise? For example, using the above Syllable structure "© (V) © © V (V) © ©", would the following be impossible to create?

Athumo

I don't think it does mean the words are hard-pressed to the SS code, but I'm not sure and Wiki... >.>

SOV Order:

I have read up on it quite a few times and have had some things explained to me, but I was wondering if anyone could help me with my last few questions?

I know about Subordinators, demonstratives, postpositions and prepositions. I know where they are placed, but I was wondering what about articles? Or anything else the Wikipedia page doesn't mention? When making the sentence in SOV order, where do you place the "parts" it doesn't mention in the Wikia? Like Articles?

Philámayayapi (I thank you all)!

END:
I have completely reamped my language and its SO, SO much better. I understand so many new things that has improved my skills by a lot, but there are still some things that escape me...

P.S

If you see a black triangle with a question mark in it anywhere on this thread (looks like this "©") it is supposed to just be a capitalized "C" but the forum refuses to cooperate

Hey, I remember this from a long time back. =D
Congrats on getting it all put together, looks good.

Thanks, X-M-O

It was tedious, but incredibly fun. I learned about phones, phonemes, allophones, IPA symbols and more. It took a while, but I learned. Now the only thing that stands in the way is Syllable Structure & Word Order. The last thread was for my Dwarf language, this is something much, much more complicated than the last and a more thought out. I engined a whole new way of forming words as well, but I like how it came out.

Wow, great to hear you're still going at it and that your language is coming along nicely! It definitly sounds like you're really getting the hang of it!

If your language does have articles then I would put them in front of the nouns somewhere. That's what German does and it's an SOV language so you might want to learn from it! I can't really think of any language that puts the articles after the nouns, though.

And you were spot on with the Syllable Structure. The () means that it's optional. So, yes, "Athumo" would be impossible to make with your example.

Good luck with your future progress!

Thanks, Knot! I would like to post a bit of my language, but I wanted to keep it secret until I have the order down xD

I have read over Wikipedia's site for SOV order, and it goes into detail about other pieces of the order, but it leaves out so many other things. Like articles and whatnot. I was hoping someone could maybe explain SOV to me and Syllable Structures.

Oh, it would be impossible? Oh dang, that means either vowel started words or consonants...

Well, it's only impossible in your example =P. For antoher example, English's Syllable Structures starts off like this:

( C ) ( C ) ( C ) V...

that way you can have things like 'strong' but also single letter words like "a". So, it doesnt stop you from starting with either a consonant or vowel. You just need to use lots of (...)!

As for SOV, that only describes where the Subject, Object and Verb go. So all the other things like articles can really go anywhere you'd like. Languages come in so many shapes and sizes it doesn't really matter!

EDIT: lol, my Cs came out as copyright symbolds. Changed!

Was it impossible in my example because of the obligatory C outside of the parenthesis? If so, would making it like this " ( C ) ( C ) (V) V (V) ( C ) ( C ) ( C )" make it possible?

May I ask if you can explain the process of creating syllable structure? If you can, I mean. I wouldn't want to bother you.

Oh? I can? Does that mean I can decide where to put Indefinite, Relative, Interrogative etc etc?

*My Cs came out like that too, but once I posted they turned to black triangles lol*

yeh, it would work fine in that example! So, what else would you like me to explain about it? And yup, you can put all that stuff wherever you'd like basically. I mean, you wouldn't put an article at the start of a sentence but nouns at the end. As long as you're sensible about it, it should work fine!

Ah, okay! Thanks for helping me out Knot! This is the last process for me to be able to finish my book xD

Okay, so: As long as its in () its optional to create a word with a consonant/vowel, but out of the () its obligatory for the word to contain a consonant/vowel? And if the structure starts with a ( C )/( V ), its possible to break it and start a word in reverse of the pattern? But its not possible if its C/V without parenthesis...correct? I just want to make sure I absolutely get this.

How would I go about knowing when an order isn't sensible?

Exactly!
To work out if an order is sensible or not, the best way is probably just to start making words. Once you have a good many words you can go back and work out the syllable structure.

How could I make sure I'd stay true to a syllable structure once I created one? Are there any notes to take so I don't accidentally screw up?

I have a dictionary of 150 words alone, excluding pronouns, adverbs, adjectives, colours, locations, names and
some other things. How may I work it out to see if its sensible? :3

Well, let me put it this way. When people first started coming up with languages they weren't really interested in the syllable structure. It's only all these years later that we've decided to create this thing called a syllable structure. So, to make sure you don't screw up I think it's this simple: if you can comfortably pronounce the word, you're fine xD

How did they make sure their words sounded like they were consistent in look and sound then? I guess SS doesn't matter much for right now, it doesn't have to have one right now unless I'm planning on release it to others xD

I think you'll just have to go with your gut instinct, atleast for the first few hundred words. After that, maybe you can find a structure.

Okay, I guess as long as I can remember to make the words consistent looking, it will be fine. xD Thanks again, Knot!

But about testing the SOV order? I have a lot of words and if need be, I can wordbuild a few more (I actually word build a lot 'cause I play an online game where I and others just post word after word xD). What would I have to do? :3