Hi,

My name is Rod and I´d like to know you opinion about this idea. Your opinion is relevant to make a decision if and how I will fund a project to construct a 'RPG Maker'-like game editor. The main features of this project that distinguishes it from a typical 'RPG Maker' are:

* You will be able publish your games for the web, PC, Mac, iOS and Android
* Strong community oriented solution, where users can download your games from a selection of online games. Think Atmosphir (www.atmosphir.com) or Little Big Planet community.
* You can develop from any computer (web based editor)

If you are interested, please answer the survey located at

https://spreadsheets.google.com/a/immersiva...zeGZQdlE4MXc6MQ

For those who answer it (with email) we´re going to give a free copy of the finished software when ready.

TIA,
Rod

So basically, Enigma Engine, minus a trustworthy scripter that'll actually get the work done, poor grammar, and a potential bot poster.

I'll pass, thanks.

Edit: Probably wrong about the bot part though, and idk if I believe the part about you being a part of the unity team. Proof?

I don't find his grammar particularly bad.

In any case, I'm not really interested in new game engines so I doubt my participation to your survey would be useful. However, moving this to the Game Engines Discussion forum might generate more interest.

The survey is really poor. I mean, if you want to create a better maker than RPG Maker, or one that is competitive. It has to have at least all of the features that RPG Maker has.

- How much (US dollars) would you pay for the game CLIENT alone? (just to play games)

What a ridiculous question. Why should anyone have to pay to play games?

- What is best, turn-based or real-time battle system?

This sounds like you are not familiar with all of the battles systems. Traditional Turn-Based, Active Time Battle, Conditional Turn-Based Battle, Real Time Battle / ABS systems are all used in RPG Maker games. If you are not going to have all of these in-built, you need to have scripting.

- How important is it for you to add (custom) new sprites to your game? (instead of using a basic set like RTP)

Again, this is obviously important. If your maker didn't have this, it would have no chance of gaining popularity.

- We are planning to build the Game Editor as an web application. Since normal editors were usually created as standalone software, how important is it to be an standalone (pc or mac) instead of an web application?

I don't know much about web applications, but would you need the internet to access it, if so, it's a terrible idea.

Hi Klokinator,

Thanks for your considerations.
Well If by bot poster you mean gathering 15 emails (out of ~20 answers so far), I´d be better buying one of those email spam lists that have millions of addresses on it, don´t you think? I´m not offended for what you said. It´s just a genuine survey to know what is worth spending my time and resources on.
I´m not from unity´s team (where did I say that?). But I do have 2 years of experience with the engine. BTW, people in another forum asked about my background. I have 20 years of programming experience (14 as a professional developer), and a master´s degree in software engineering. And I wouldn´t be doing it alone. But I do need to know if, as I said, it is worth to devote my time and to hire a team with at least 1 artist and 2 additional programmers for building this tool. Therefore this survey...

Thanks again,
R.

Hi Rob_Riv,

Thanks for your considerations.

The point is, somethings that are obvious to you aren´t obvious to me. I need to measure what people are willing to pay and see if, and where, there is a market. BTW, I think a freemium model (editor and client) is even more interesting. But such business model is even hard to measure.

The rest of the questions are just to have a general sense of what people prefer. If I made a survey with every kind of battle system only advanced users like you would be able to answer it, for example.

About the editor as a web application. People are divided. There are technologies like GWT that make web application feel like standalone ones (see for instance http://www.sencha.com/examples/explorer.html). The main reason is to have a central repository for you to easily store/share/publish your games. But your opinion about not being a good ideia makes me worry if it´s the right direction. Care to elaborate?

Thanks again,
R.

...Dude, not to be offensive, but you double-posted on a forum with rules against it.

Anyway, I have nothing to say about the program so far, but that's just because I'm not sure I'd be willing to use it. Other than that, good luck, and don't break rules around here if you can avoid it.

Oh. Thanks for the warning.
Sorry about that.

No problem.

I don't follow this logic. You're asking people which they prefer. I'm saying that it should obviously have a number of battle systems in place, as otherwise there isn't an advantage over RPG Maker.


I wasn't talking about that question though. It's fine to ask how much people would pay. However, you asked how much people would pay to just play, not create, games. I'm saying that that is ridiculous. Logic would say that one could play someone else's game without having to purchase something (separate from the game) to do so.


Well, my point is that you shouldn't need an active internet connection to use the game editor. Many people don't have the internet all the time. Many others might want to not have the internet as a distraction whilst working on their game.

Could you hit the report button in future - that way the mod of this forum can take any action required- such as merging posts.

Thanks

I don't think this is a bad idea as I'm also creating a RPG Maker to compete with Enterbrain, but I think he's going in the wrong direction with a survey. If you're really going to make an engine based on a survey than don't make one, the best way to go about a RPG Maker is basically give everything great Enterbrain's RPG Maker did than add your own flavor into the formula. There is one thing Enterbrain got right which is events and it's simplicity to put together a NPC in a matter of minutes not hours, and also event scripting as well.

Your also going into the wrong direction on what the default battle system should be, why create a survey for such a thing and basically asking what's the best battle system? IMO it's a ABS as I love map based battles, but there's plenty of fans of the Final Fantasy series that would love a side view battle system. I think you should let the user create his/her own battle system with scripting(do not know what you're using, I would recommend Lua, Javascript(Google's V8), Java, Python, or Ruby) or like they have done in the past with using common event's and and event triggers with RM2k/3.

If you're from the Unity team this should be a no brainier for you but it seems like it's a difficult task, just create a RPG Engine that's easy to use, 100% customizable, access to the source code(some users may want to change the scripting language or just some basic things), and let the user decide how the game should work and function.

Good Luck!

Forgot about the report button... I also thought it would be good to inform him of what he did wrong.

Sorry about that, kaz, won't do that again.

Ok guys. I wouldn´t show this since its a very early draft code.
Remember, you can´t even call it an alpha version.

So what you think about this?

www.rpgcrafter.com

R.

I can see minecraft grass and a 2d sprite? I'm not sure what it's supposed to look like.

Yeah, pretty much it.
Just to ask you guys what you think of a 3D RPG Maker with this look and feel...

No....No....No....

Let me explain why, I will use Adventure engine, Built in Actionscript 3 to explain why everything is wrong with this.


1) You are not even alpha. You have no design document, no specifications, no direction other then to do what every one else in the forums is doing in terms of making another game engine or game editor. In the case of AE (Adventure Engine) it is just a that a developer engine used for coding your game and brining life to it with a rich API. Thats the goal, thats the road. What is your clear and concise objective with this engine or game maker? "I want to make it, it so you can make games for andrroid, web, ios, mac, pc..." break it down. Why are you making this? What does it offer that others do not? What types of features can we expect?

2) Programming. You need to take it, well not really but if you took a course or two in computer science then you would learn what its like to build a system and the term maker or engine means its going to be a large system. You need to do a lot of research in terms of your clients and your target. For example I am asking in the general convo what people have made with flash and what they want in a game engine that would be targeted towards flash development.

You need to learn the process of designing a engine or maker and take it in terms of use cases. Create a design document and have a clear and concise road ahead of you. This will help you lay down the foundation for the game engine and the platform.



I did four years of study on this topic, software development, and I am just starting to write a game engine in a language I have never used. Adventrue Engine is a challanges and step forward for me. Open source and Comunity based I write code for fun and to create something that people can build off of, extend and plug into using rich AS apis and technologies for Desktop and web. I dont see your clear diretion here. I see ideas and thoughts, which is a good start but break it down further

Hi Adrien,



Yeah, I said just that. I'm not even alpha. I tried to make it clear. That's just a TEST!



1. I took. Around 7 years of formal courses (BS and MSc in computer science).
2. I'm starting my research with this little survey.



Thanks for your concerns. I honestly think it's too big for anyone. But multi-platform publishing is easier than you imagine. Start looking here http://unity3d.com/unity/publishing/.



We're are both at the same page here.



That would become a long debate. That's just a survey dude.



I wish you the best in your endeavor. Really.

That´s just a survey and, as I said, a VERY EARLY software TEST. Chill out dude.

Anyway, you're right about a game design document. In this case a software requirements specification would be better. But I doodled some code and posted this survey here before committing too much of my time/resources.

R.

One there is nothing to "chill out over" I was simply saying you might be approaching this from the wrong angle — don't get offended when some one younger then you comes along with ideas and suggestions how to tackle something like this

A design document would be better then a SRS at this point it would allow you to get ideas out and build conceptual models and mockups of the code base without committing to the ideology and lay out of a SRS. I would suggest a SRS after your initial plan is solid.

A good way to show the community — this is what I have — is to build a rough system in a sand box environment and allow people to explore the code base for them selves, that web idea is a good example.

I would not call it a software test more of an idea. in your stages of design I would not begin writing a line of code or even open up the IDE you plan to do all this in, I would allocate my resources, determine if this is something I can tackle do a mountain of research to see what people want, if they would be interested or if its worth your (and your teams) time (lets face it you need a team for something like this).

I am just saying in the long run to slow down, take a look at the big picture and use your education and (possibly) training in industry to understand how such a project or idea is tackled

Again key points to remember are:

• SRS after a design document. Design documents are rough SRS's and provide a good idea of what you want
• Mission and Goal statement, Break it down
• Research, research, research. What, When, Why, How, Whom and What's the purpose
• Ask your self "Can this be done already with existing platforms?"
• "Is this too big for one person"
• What technologies, Testing and other material will I need or will i build it all
• I need a team, what kind of team do I need.

You mentioned unity. Thats a large and complex project involving many professionals over many years. What I fear the most is that you are taking on something too large, and from your initial post and the responses here it seems you are.

Just keep these and other things in mind when prusuing such projects

Maybe I should just quit. It's a big project indeed. But we have to start somehow. How about a survey?

I didn't say quit any where. But I just read your survey and you are asking all the wrong questsions.....

Here are some sample questsions you could ask:

• What types of features would you like see in a game editor, engine that doesnt currently exist?
• What types of limitations do you currently see on game engines and or editors today?
• What holds you back from using a specific engine/editor?
• Would you prefer: 3d, 2d, 1d types of games and for what plat forms?
• Which platforms do you think are the most popular in terms of todays market, hardware and cost.
• based on the android, web, ios, pc, mac, linux systems which would you prefer to be more supported and why?
• In your oppinion what is the key factor of a good game engine/editor?
• In your oppinion what is the defacto standard of engines/editors today?
• if scripting support is something you would like to see, what types of languages, API would you like to see?
• Are you interested in an open source comunity or a closed source propriatary comunity?
• And the list goes on...

Your thread responses, lay out, questions and what not do not read as a highly educated, trained individual that I got from your last post. It readsa s 15-17 year old who got a "how to make flash games" book or his birthday and suddenly thinks he is top dog. Your survey is not set up correctly for asking and retrieveing data based upon the type of engine/editor your making.

your willingness to quit or give up shows your maturity level is lower in these terms (not saying your an immature brat just saying not mature enough to handle a project of this scope and thats ok).

What you need is to take a good long hard look at why your doing this and think about how to get the comunity more engaged to help you build the system you want.

The fact you you have both a Bachelor's and a Master's degree and yet you're so willing to give up seems rather incongruous to me. After studying at that high a level, I don't understand why you'd have that mindset.

I won't. Not because it's a big project. I was kidding...

Right.

Anyway, I'm not really interested in the 3D aspect. You should have been specific as to what the link was. There's no maker. It's just a first person view of walking and jumping on minecraft grass sprites and being able to see a few of the same 2d sprite.

Hi Adrien,

Sorry for my sarcarm. I won't quit because it's a big project. Maybe I'll quit because there's no interesting market or because I couldn't finish raising money.

These are really good questions. Do you mind if I use some of them?

R.



Hi Rob_Riv,


The texture resolution can be increased. The use of 2D sprites is because it would make adding new characters very easy, since there is no 3D model involved.

Maybe you're interested in something like this link. This is a test also. Far from being complete. Very far.

http://dungeoneditor.appspot.com/

To use it:

(There is a bug in chrome/safari. If you're using it, try the button 'generate')

1. Select the rectangle tool
2. Click on position (1,1) (top-left)
3. Move mouse to desired position
4. Click again to finish
5. Click on the tab named "Game"

Your character will appear on cell (1, 1) of the dungeon you created.

See the graphics and tell me if that's better/interesting...

TIA,
R.

Please, don't post twice in a row. You can quote several users in the same post by clicking the "Quote" button at the bottom of the posts before clicking Post Reply.

Well, the original link doesn't look good. Plus, it's first person.

The second looks better, but is still first person. This isn't "RPG Maker"-like at the moment.

Would people even be able to sell games made in your maker which uses Unity?

Also, as I said before, you shouldn't need an active internet connection to use the game editor. I think it's a bad idea.

@rgalvao I do not mind if you use them as they are intended to be used (some are user input).

I have to admit rgalvao What scares me is some of your thread responses. I would not expect this from some one with...



espeically the quitting part (sarcasm or no) some one with such degreee of education would have come up with more information and know exsactly where to start. I would really think about your posts as honestly, your not coming off as with a masters or a bachlors but with a flash book he got for his birthday.

I have no defined plans. Those are just tests. (Well the second one I created while learning GWT 1.5 year ago).
I'm really just testing the water. Overall people don't mind selling theirs games but they, as you, don't want a web editor. That was expected, but I needed to know how hard is the rejection.

R.

I think some people want the option to be able to sell their game. RPG Maker allows you to sell your game, and if your maker doesn't, I'm not sure why I'd want to use your editor.

I never said I didnt want a web editor. I told you as I will for the 100th time to build one plat for at a time, you have 5 systems to build, build one system at a time

I would say the same for you, who claims to be a competent programmer yet routinely asks basic questions and shows a general misunderstanding of fundamental programming concepts. That being a separate issue though...

I see a few problems with your proposal.

1. (IMO) you are overly ambitious. A game engine that transparently works on Windows, mac, Linux, iOS, Flash, <whatever> is going to be extremely time consuming (if it's even possible, see #2 below).
2. I don't see how you are going to support the iOS feature. I am not an iOS developer, but as far as I know you have to be a licensed developer to publish to the app store. They also have very strict rules about coding standards and design. Additionally, you will need to auto-generate the code (obviously) for the editor to work, yet I highly doubt it will be good enough to pass initial inspection. Even if those two hurdles could be crossed (don't see how), do you have any idea how much time it is going to take to write a generator for 5+ platforms, especially considering you can only do iOS development on a mac? Is your server a mac? It had better be for this to work.
3. Web apps suck for this sort of thing. You need access to the filesystem, advanced UI features, etc. It may all be possible with HTML5, but it's going to be a huge pain in the ass and the quality will suffer. I see no reason why this should be a web app.
4. You are posting this here, essentially asking for design by committee (which never works well...), which tells me that you don't really understand what is needed in a game engine. This is a huge problem. You had better have a firm grasp of the domain before you write even a single line of code.

I could go on, but those are my main grievances.

He could make it an adobe air application that sits on the desktop and interats with the web in some fashion. He would then have access to the file system, the UI features and still have access to the web for what ever he wanted to do with it.

Yes, there are of course ways to do it, my point was that it will be unnecessarily difficult. Most programs are still better as native apps.

True. I still stand by my statement of "Work on each platform one at a time, each is a system, each system has its own challanages and obsticles."

That I agree with. Launching with support for all of these platforms is a waste of time. Hit the big markets first and work your way down, and even then only if there is a measurable benefit for doing so.

How else do you think he's going to do it. That's usually the only way to go about it. I don't really see how your going to build for more than one platform at a time anyway... without causing major flaws the in program.

He could well be doing what im doing.. Which is building for one platform, then the next, then the next. Then putting it all together as a single software package, and then job done (and before you say it i know its not that easy..)

That would make sense for sure. I am just afraid as what I got was that he planned to build them all at once, or all as one software package with out seperating the individual systems.

I work on multi-platform native code every day at work. You cannot just develop for one without thinking of the others. You need to structure your code in such a way that the high level interfaces are platform independent, but rely on platform dependent implementations. That doesn't mean that you need to implement each platform version up front, but you at least need to think about it and know what you are doing or you are just creating a ton of extra work for yourself.

essentially what you could do, which is what you need to do, is build your buisness logic seperate from the application logic. this will allow you to use this back end code is done properly, as big ed stated across multiple platforms making the work easier and simpler when implementing other systems because the core logic of how the system should work will be essentially the same thus you just have to implement the application logic.

also I am wondering is this going to be an open source project? I would like to contribute to the web section. if it gets off the ground

Thanks BigEd781, your grievances/thoughts made me wake up to a huge mistake I made when talking about the publishing part.

That is the reason I didn't understood all the discussion about multi-platform development. Game multi-platform development is not that hard. If you want to create a game that runs on the internet or on an iphone you will share, at least, 80% of development efforts if you use a tool like Unity (see http://unity3d.com/unity/publishing/). If you plan accordingly and build high level abstractions the right way, I would say you could share at least 95% of development efforts.

But If I build a tool where you choose which platform it will generate binaries to, that involves cross-compilation, and that is, essentially, a hard problem.
I couldn't handle cross-development to different binary/native code. That would skyrocket my budget and I would need to work each binary/native code platform at a time, indeed.

What I thought when talking about publishing was something like this:

1. You use the tool (Let's call it RPG Crafter) to create your game
2. You hit the publish button and it goes to the community's server
3. Your game is listed on community's portal
4. Someone else grabs his iphone/android/pc/mac/web browser and opens the RPG Crafter (client) application. He finds your game and downloads or buys it.

Since I'm already an Apple developer I could build this client application and users wouldn't need a mac, sdks, pay fees to Apple etc to "publish" for iOS. Since I'm using Unity, the same goes to the others platforms.

Sorry to disappoint who was thinking the other way. I should have been more clear about the "publishing" part.



I really don't know yet. Glad to know there's interest to contribute. If there is a web module it will be written in Google's GWT. See for instance http://www.sencha.com/examples/explorer.html#overview. That was what I used in the second demo (http://dungeoneditor.appspot.com).

R.