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Titanhex
Steampunk is becoming increasingly popular now-a-days. More and more the fans crave this style, excited and curious to explore the new worlds created within. And who can blame them? The Steampunk and Victorian era offer a truely fantastic and beautiful world with new opportunities and powers to explore.

So why aren't game designers jumping at the chance to make a steampunk fantasy setting? The engines actually have support for this style, and there's plenty of steampunk graphics if you search. (Hell the RTP has a few)

Personally, I would attribute the lack of exploration to the newness of steampunk to Video Games. When it comes to medieval fantasy, it's so easy to grab some familiar design and get to work. You know what the world looks like, you know what the classes are and what the powers typically are of people.

Steampunk is unexplored territory for many designers, especially younger ones. I imagine that will change in the coming decades. I myself grew up on Fantasy, and only learned of Steampunk about five years ago.

Most of what you can find on Steampunk is media, pictures, some music, and books. Very few games exist that clearly demonstrate the exploration of steampunk.

So, let us do that in this thread. Explore how we can use steampunk to shape a video game world in both the setting and the gameplay. Perhaps we can educate ourselves and others on the edge steampunk can give our games.
Jackal26
I spoke to you about this a little while ago. I would definitely like to play a steampunk, victorian era, fable style game. I was sick and tired of playing a futuristic or medieval fantasy. I wouldn't mind playing a surreal fantasy setting.


I think the reason people don't explore steampunk is because it is too vast of a setting. When you create something in steampunk you have to make it seem plausible that such n such device can actually work. Not like fantasy were everything works because of some divine magic enchantment. Or sci-fi where they simply use Dylithymn Crystals to power their starships and lightsabers. Where as steampunk you have to draw out the mechanics as to how it works. Drawing Pistons, Steamguages, levers, gears, crankshafts, and tracks are not an easy task. It requires deeper planning and thought and some people do not have the patiences for it.

I am developing a Steampunk/Victorian era game called "Epic in Wonderland" (Exact name is still being decided) where the game takes place in wonderland; It have steam punk cities, and forests that you would only see in an acid trip.

Minor Details
March Hare -has a steampunk mechanical arm with gears and it somehow always seems to malfunction on him, he also has Teapots for a weapon.

Mad Hatter - has the steampunk goggles that has multiple lenses for magnification, he is a Mad Perfectionist and his sole purpose is to make the perfect hat which is a rather unhealthy obsession.

Dormouse - is kinda like a steampunk knight (Hard to explain), he is brash and abrasive, and his pride is to big for his size.

Chesire Cat - is a shadowy panther with a bit of a French and Cajun Accent, he is cool and laid back, but because of his shadowy nature people are uneasy about him, you never know if he is watching when you think you are alone, he tends to scare people with his sudden materialization. He wears a Victorian Era NeckTie with ruffles as a collar.

Caterpillar - Is actually an Old man who rides inside a steampunk vehicle that looks like a caterpiller. It blows steam as though it is smoking a Hookah. The man is wise but in some ways he tries to hard to be young so he makes a fool of himself. Using slang that is outdated or making up words he thinks is cool.

Alice - that is your choice on her personality. I wanted to make a Mass Effect style of controlling the storyline."



Making a steampunk fable game would be an awesome thing to see. Most people who do this style of setting usually make it about werewolfs and vampires.
Vanit
Honestly, I couldn't disagree with you more. I think if anything there needs to be less steampunk games, and people need to get their heads out of the box that tells them to have a good RPG you need swords and airships. Steampunk, put simply, is fantasy plus anachronistic technology (machinery that doesn't belong in its time). This setting describes the VAST majority of RPGs, especially JRPGs, in existence. Final Fantasy, Wild Arms, Tales of, Legend of Dragoon, Chrono Trigger - ALL steampunk!

Now I'm sure you intended to mean the purist steampunk games such as Dark Chronicle, of which you're right in saying there are very few of. If one wanted to design a game like that, for every element I suppose you should consider "how can I make a machine do this, and how can I make this machine look like it was built with primitive parts".
Jackal26
QUOTE (Vanit @ May 7 2011, 07:40 AM) *
Honestly, I couldn't disagree with you more. I think if anything there needs to be less steampunk games, and people need to get their heads out of the box that tells them to have a good RPG you need swords and airships. Steampunk, put simply, is fantasy plus anachronistic technology (machinery that doesn't belong in its time). This setting describes the VAST majority of RPGs, especially JRPGs, in existence. Final Fantasy, Wild Arms, Tales of, Legend of Dragoon, Chrono Trigger - ALL steampunk!

Now I'm sure you intended to mean the purist steampunk games such as Dark Chronicle, of which you're right in saying there are very few of. If one wanted to design a game like that, for every element I suppose you should consider "how can I make a machine do this, and how can I make this machine look like it was built with primitive parts".



That is a negative...

Final Fantasy VII is more of a modern day fantasy.
Final Fantasy X I believe it is along the lines of Surrealpunk. It is a different type of world with odd technology.
Final Fantasy VI However was a mix between steampunk and fantasy.
Most Final Fantasy games are medieval-like fantasy.
I never played Wild Arms so I can't comment on that.
Legend of the Dragoon was Medieval Fantasy.
Crono Trigger is a bit unfair, because it is mix with all sorts. Futuristic/Medieval/Cyberpunk/Steampunk/ and other stuff I can't think off.

Just because they have machinery that doesn't belong in it's time doesn't make it steampunk. Steampunk is more like the industrial revolutionary period where the technology is all being run by steam instead of some crystal or magic. He was also talking about the Victorian era, where not many people hit on. It would be great to see a victorian era game that doesn't touch on vampires and werewolves.
Nitromatic
I am trying to make a game with fantasy- steampunk theme. It takes good bit of my freetime, but heck, it will be worth of it. I know it. smile.gif But it's still pretty dang hard to think about how magic works in there.
Vanit
QUOTE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steampunk)
Steampunk is a sub-genre of science fiction, alternate history, and speculative fiction that came into prominence during the 1980s and early 1990s.[1] Specifically, steampunk involves an era or world where steam power is still widely used—usually the 19th century and often Victorian era Britain—that incorporates prominent elements of either science fiction or fantasy. Works of steampunk often feature anachronistic technology or futuristic innovations as Victorians may have envisioned them; in other words, based on a Victorian perspective on fashion, culture, architectural style, art, etc. This technology may include such fictional machines as those found in the works of H. G. Wells and Jules Verne or real technologies like the computer but developed earlier in an alternate history.

Other examples of steampunk contain alternate history-style presentations of "the path not taken" for such technology as dirigibles, analog computers, or such digital mechanical computers as Charles Babbage and Ada Lovelace's Analytical engine.

Steampunk is often associated with cyberpunk. They have considerable influence on each other and share a similar fan base, but steampunk developed as a separate movement. Apart from time period and level of technology, the main difference is that steampunk settings tend to be less dystopian.

Also FFVI is on the list of steampunk works here. I don't think steampunk is what you think it is. Victorian era is a common theme, but its not a requirement. You can also have medieval or western steampunk. So long as you're dealing with a story where it seems "the future happened sooner" than in our own timeline, you're pretty much dealing with steampunk. I did clarify that in terms of purist steampunk, there isn't much out there. But loosely, most RPGs fall in this category.

You've pointed out some games are "medieval fantasy", but you're forgetting that steampunk is a subgenre of this. The second you throw machinery in as a plot device, it is no longer fantasy. Lord of the Rings is fantasy. Final Fantasy is steampunk. FF7 is deceptive in that it has a modern touch to it (the cars and trains look more modern than not), but all the housing is Victorian and all the tech has huge pipes with steam spewing out of it (Midgar especially is COVERED in pipes). Given they also all use swords and magic amongst this, its hard to argue the game is anything but steampunk.

It seems I have a nack for dragging these threads slightly offtopic. But I think exploring this will shed some light on how to do purist steampunk properly.
Jackal26
QUOTE (Vanit @ May 7 2011, 08:14 AM) *
QUOTE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steampunk)
Steampunk is a sub-genre of science fiction, alternate history, and speculative fiction that came into prominence during the 1980s and early 1990s.[1] Specifically, steampunk involves an era or world where steam power is still widely used��‚��€�usually the 19th century and often Victorian era Britain��‚��€�that incorporates prominent elements of either science fiction or fantasy. Works of steampunk often feature anachronistic technology or futuristic innovations as Victorians may have envisioned them; in other words, based on a Victorian perspective on fashion, culture, architectural style, art, etc. This technology may include such fictional machines as those found in the works of H. G. Wells and Jules Verne or real technologies like the computer but developed earlier in an alternate history.

Other examples of steampunk contain alternate history-style presentations of "the path not taken" for such technology as dirigibles, analog computers, or such digital mechanical computers as Charles Babbage and Ada Lovelace's Analytical engine.

Steampunk is often associated with cyberpunk. They have considerable influence on each other and share a similar fan base, but steampunk developed as a separate movement. Apart from time period and level of technology, the main difference is that steampunk settings tend to be less dystopian.


Also FFVI is on the list of steampunk works here. I don't think steampunk is what you think it is. Victorian era is a common theme, but its not a requirement. I did clarify that in terms of purist steampunk, there isn't much out there. But loosely, most RPGs fall in that category.

You've pointed out some games are "medieval fantasy", but you're forgetting that steampunk is a subgenre of this. The second you throw machinery in as a plot device, it is no longer fantasy. Lord of the Rings is fantasy. Final Fantasy is steampunk.

It seems I have a nack for dragging these threads slightly offtopic. But I think exploring this will shed some light on how to do purist steampunk properly.



To say that means that it can also have a sub genre of anything. What the OP was talking about is having a game based in either Colonial days or Victorian era, with a steam punk style of setting. Where technology is powered by steam and gears. Another Sub-genre is Martial Arts and you see Tiffa using it in the game, but I don't see Martial Arts as a sub genre for Final Fantasy VII. Many RPGs have Martial Arts in it but they are not consider Martial Arts as a sub-genre. All I am saying as that just because you give a person a handgun in the medeival period doesn't make it steampunk.

Just because it has a tiny hint of steampunk doesn't mean it is steam punk sub-genre




So until then we must agree to disagree.






Although I am experimenting with different steampunk pictures and what-not. I have been looking all over the net for tutorials on how to draw steampunk themed pictures. I don't get much answers. If anyone could tell me what art-books to get I will look into it.
Vanit
QUOTE (Jackal26 @ May 7 2011, 10:47 PM) *
To say that means that it can also have a sub genre of anything. What the OP was talking about is having a game based in either Colonial days or Victorian era, with a steam punk style of setting. Where technology is powered by steam and gears. Another Sub-genre is Martial Arts and you see Tiffa using it in the game, but I don't see Martial Arts as a sub genre for Final Fantasy VII. Many RPGs have Martial Arts in it but they are not consider Martial Arts as a sub-genre. All I am saying as that just because you give a person a handgun in the medeival period doesn't make it steampunk.

Just because it has a tiny hint of steampunk doesn't mean it is steam punk sub-genre

So until then we must agree to disagree.

Come on, to compare my claims to saying FF7 is a martial-arts subgenre is absurd and unfair. I'm not sure when the last time you played the game was since you misspelt Tifa's name as Tiffa, but I pore over the content of the game daily due to my remake. The fact of the matter is that most of FF7's buildings, bar some of Midgar, are Victorian style, and the majority of the tech is covered in exposed steam pipes. Hell, look at the train in my sig; its a steampunk train from FF7 - do you think thats just for show? When you go into the engine room of the highwind you see its all powered by steam also. It is FAR from a hint and to suggest otherwise is disingenuous.

I will agree to disagree at this point.
Jackal26
Whew! Thanks for posting, I didn't want to double post.


As far as the magic systems goes, it would probably be centered around alchemy. Since during the Victorian era, Alchemy was indistinguishable to magic. Using Elements, Astrology and Zodiacs to define what type of spell it is. I'm sure there is a game like this, but it is the only plausible thing I can think of. Nostradamus was famous for this (Though he wasn't born in the Victorian Era). Thomas Edison was famous for alchemy as well.

This would be way into the Full Metal Alchemist style of game.
Stern
I would like to see a game where the whole world is based around steam as the primary source of energy/power. I'd disagree that any FF game except VI and maybe VII is of the genre steampunk though. If anything, the others have aspects of steampunk at the most.

A game based around a gritty steampunk era, instead of the victorian era (as seen in Bioshock: Infinite), would be awesome. A few exists, but not many of those are memorable ones.

This picture perfectly portrays the kind of steampunk style I would like to play/explore.
Awesome Steampunk

A game where everything is more industrial than anything.

Instead of healing being based on some divine god, you could use syringes or painkillers of some sort.
Instead of magic and broadswords, you could utilize use guns and gadgets.
The world could be similar to our world. Using transportation systems such as, steam-locomotives, cars, aircrafts.

You could also take into consideration the hazards working with steam all the time. Steam is, after all, pretty hot.

It's different but very pretty (that goes for both victorian and the gritty version).

Just a few thoughts.
Vanit
@st3rnb0rn: Its not an RPG, but I think an example of what you're thinking of (visually) may be Machinarium.

Twin Matrix
I love steampunk but my problem with it is that it's quite hard to determine what it actually is! Sometimes it looks like a Victorian steam-era setting, sometimes like a heavily industrialized world and sometimes like medieval times with some machinery. It seems to vary quite a bit. Just the two pictures above are already very different.
Wanzer-panzer
Well, I always associated steampunk with Victorian style things, like in Arcanum, that was true steampunk in my opinion.
Jackal26
Those pictures are just aw-inspiring and beautiful. It seems so complicated and overwhelming to do something like this. I if I can learn how the machinery and mechanics work, I would be glad to make steampunk style art and video-games. As we speak I am looking up how steam engines work so that I may make my work look believable... ... ...


Ah! I found it! Though it is still a bit confusing...



Now I'm starting to understand...


I will definitely start practicing more on drawing steampunk themed artwork.

Awesome Steampunk goggles...
Arbor
Steampunk is actually in quite a lot of video games to some extent: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Steampunk_video_games

One of my favorites is Resonance of Fate, which isn't on that page.

As far as defining what steampunk is, I have one name for you: Datamancer

Can you handle the awesome?
Wanzer-panzer
I hate those steampunk glasses though, and steampunk music. And ROF is a great game.
minius
I myself am a huge steampunk fan, but most steampunk games I see are mediocre at best.
Maybe one reason game designers aren't making steampunk-themed games is due to how daunting it is - in almost every artistic aspect, the challenge would be intimidating.
Think music, sprites, and level design for a second.
The music would be difficult to grasp - Victorian style music is usually elegant and serene, a common example to name would be music box music.
The whole game couldn't be as elegant as the music, and composing Victorian-styled pieces around video game events like battles would be awkward, to say the least.
Steampunk styled clothing is another aspect that would take much time - the designs are usually very intricate, and if you mess it up, the whole outfit looks off - so spriting delicate gears and pocketwatches and pinstripes would be like building a sandcastle modeled off of the White House.
Oh goodness.
Level design, in my opinion, would be the most time-consuming part of the game design.
The architecture might consist of huge towers, clocks, worn-away bricks, desecrated pipes, many cogs and wheels, Victorian iron posts, and artistic statues.
Google "steampunk architecture" for some breath-taking examples of these grand schemes.
Also, from what I've seen, a lot of steampunk architecture is free-form and creatively unbalanced; like this (though you could stick to traditional Victorian style instead).
And yes, like Jackal said, you would have to plan out all of the machinery.
You would have to plan out all of the pneumatics, pipes, levers, switches, pulleys, aljfkjds;dfjkd...
Along with that, you would have to be a HECK of a problem solver!
If you wanted to design a house, for example, let's say you got stuck on the question, "How does this building support itself?" (again, you wouldn't run into this if you stuck with traditional Victorian housing... but those are boring >:0).
All in all, I think you'd need an abundant refinery of creativity, patience, problem-solving skills, mechanical understanding, and flexibility to make a steampunk video game happen.
Jackal26
QUOTE (minius @ May 7 2011, 08:12 PM) *
I myself am a huge steampunk fan, but most steampunk games I see are mediocre at best.
Maybe one reason game designers aren't making steampunk-themed games is due to how daunting it is - in almost every artistic aspect, the challenge would be intimidating.
Think music, sprites, and level design for a second.
The music would be difficult to grasp - Victorian style music is usually elegant and serene, a common example to name would be music box music.
The whole game couldn't be as elegant as the music, and composing Victorian-styled pieces around video game events like battles would be awkward, to say the least.
Steampunk styled clothing is another aspect that would take much time - the designs are usually very intricate, and if you mess it up, the whole outfit looks off - so spriting delicate gears and pocketwatches and pinstripes would be like building a sandcastle modeled off of the White House.
Oh goodness.
Level design, in my opinion, would be the most time-consuming part of the game design.
The architecture might consist of huge towers, clocks, worn-away bricks, desecrated pipes, many cogs and wheels, Victorian iron posts, and artistic statues.
Google "steampunk architecture" for some breath-taking examples of these grand schemes.
Also, from what I've seen, a lot of steampunk architecture is free-form and creatively unbalanced; like this (though you could stick to traditional Victorian style instead).
And yes, like Jackal said, you would have to plan out all of the machinery.
You would have to plan out all of the pneumatics, pipes, levers, switches, pulleys, aljfkjds;dfjkd...
Along with that, you would have to be a HECK of a problem solver!
If you wanted to design a house, for example, let's say you got stuck on the question, "How does this building support itself?" (again, you wouldn't run into this if you stuck with traditional Victorian housing... but those are boring >:0).
All in all, I think you'd need an abundant refinery of creativity, patience, problem-solving skills, mechanical understanding, and flexibility to make a steampunk video game happen.


Here is one thing that is intimidating to the artist. He must of spent almost a month to get it to look like this... and this is just one of the steampunk machines in the story. Image an entire world like this. This is why games take years to come out, and they have 40 artist working on the project.

Titanhex
Ya'll are over-estimating the difficulty of steampunk. Fantasy would be just as difficult if the details were that intricate on any design.

Fantasy may have an edge because it has spanned a much larger time-period, and thus has created far more mimicable stories. But those can easily be adapted to a steampunk world. Steampunk also has a few stories that could be exclusive to it.

A lot of what minius is saying can be applied to fantasy as well. I think it's merely a lack of immersion into steampunk that causes the most fear of it.

So I ask, how can we use steampunk to design a good video-game?
Vanit
QUOTE (Titanhex @ May 9 2011, 08:36 PM) *
Ya'll are over-estimating the difficulty of steampunk. Fantasy would be just as difficult if the details were that intricate on any design.

Fantasy may have an edge because it has spanned a much larger time-period, and thus has created far more mimicable stories. But those can easily be adapted to a steampunk world. Steampunk also has a few stories that could be exclusive to it.

A lot of what minius is saying can be applied to fantasy as well. I think it's merely a lack of immersion into steampunk that causes the most fear of it.

So I ask, how can we use steampunk to design a good video-game?

Ironically, I think the trait of intricate design you dismissed is probably the best thing you can invest in to "use steampunk to design a good game" (I'm still not sure if thats even an answerable question). As others have pointed out, we long to be immersed in these "alternate history" worlds that have fantastical technology that baffles and intrigues us. Anyone remember in Back to the Future 3 how Doc made a huge machine that only made a few ice cubes? - that was a hint of steampunk. I don't know if you can even make something look steampunk without having it somewhat intricately designed as the point is that its meant to look like technology defies what is possible with the parts available; its supposed to look technically impressive or complicated for the time. On the otherhand in fantasy you can just say something is magic without really needing to make something look like it can physically achieve what its actually doing (you can, but its not what we expect from the genre).

I suppose the distinction between steampunk and fantasy kind of parallels the distinction between science fiction and science fantasy. Star Wars is science fantasy; they NEVER attempt to explain anything technical, it just works and knowing about how it does isn't the story - and when they did try by explaining the force through mediclorians it just didn't work as it counteracts what science fantasy is about. Whereas you look at something like the Matrix or Star Trek; the story relies on the technology and our enjoyment of the story is somewhat founded in whether we believe the technology can do what they say it does. So in the same token, steampunk tech is supposed to look like it can actually do something, and the enjoyment of the genre is seeing these "otherworldly" implementations of tech we otherwise take for granted, or otherwise wouldn't be so bulky in a science fiction or modern setting. I think getting this right is the best thing you can do to make a good steampunk game.
Titanhex
Well that definitely does complicate the genre slightly. Still, even those who design steampunk in movies and anime probably aren't masters of steam based technology.

A lot of people don't care how the steam driven technology works. Getting bogged down into the technicalities of it may run you the risk of trying to explain it to your audience. I think simply having a low comprehension of the technology is fine as long as you can fully understand the aesthetic design.

Perhaps a fairer question is: How do we adapt Steampunk into game design and gameplay to fully use it to our advantage.

Example would be the introduction of fire-arms to your game. (Though this may not be necessary to achieve steampunk.) Firearms can change gameplay drastically.

There's also the addition of Airships, Fighter Planes, Cities floating along on giant barges, etc. I would say the technology of steampunk alone opens a number of doors for gameplay exploration by any pioneer. The ability to expand on level design is magnified by these things. Imagine a dungeon where you dodge firing pistons and cogwheels. Where the person hunting you is made up of prosthetic parts driven by gears. You are being tracked by golden beetles made of parts. You make a get-away on a train powered by coal.

What kind of stories can be created from steampunk too? With the addition of new technology and a different set of challenges and obstacles, how can these affect the stories we create? I'm sure we can get farther and farther from the "Chosen One" and "1000 years ago" stories we see so often.
Jackal26
It is not the fact that you have to explain it to the audience of how machinery work. They should be able to see how it works to get an idea. It has to look believable. Making it look believable will put your audience at aw. Just like the previous post said about the Back to the Future scene.


Simple explanation:

The goggles I posted before... I didn't explain how it works, you can already tell that it has multiple lenses so that it can magnify his vision when ever he does delicate and precision heavy work. A trick that developers would do is make a techy on the team that always has a habit of explaining how things work.

I just think making a steampunk themed game is a bit intimidating, but it isn't going to stop me!
Though I need a team, and don't want to start one yet. I want to get more experience on different teams before I say, "hey! I wanna make a game!"
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