After seeing Twin Matrix's post I felt I needed to address it fully.
I'm sick of seeing these generic names and story plots on all of these RPGs, they look like they're all made by 12 year olds. So I'll list a few things that you should probably stay away from.

Dragoons.
Dragons in general, unless your game is centered around them, or a normal fantasy game.
Dark/Black Knights
Names from any Final Fantasy, which means no towns or provinces named Firion or Tidus
The name Leon. Seriously.
The idea of a "Chosen one" because it's done to death.
Nothing where say, a 16 year old kid, with modest upbringings rose to become a hero due to some unforeseen event, it sounds like a bad B-movie.
NO circumstance where your characters village is burned to the ground by bandits or something.
Compulsories of dark dungeons, fire caves, wind temples, ancient ruins filled with traps.
And another thing, the "Cloud rule" which means, the crazier and bigger the hair of the main character is, the more important he is.
Hilariously stupid and clueless soldiers.
No matter how big the sword on your back is, you never stand out in the crowd, seriously, why does no one ask why someone bursts through the door while a family's eating or something?
The Aeris effect, which means the main male character has a BIG ASS sword, and the female has a rod/staff
SLEEP CURES EVERYTHING. even death.
Every country in the world will have exactly one town in it, except for the country you start out in, which will have three.
No giant robots fighting. (which is ironic though, as I'm making a Front mission fangame)
The ancient evil rule, which is when an ancient entity arises from it's tomb to wreak havoc and a group of heroes have to seal him away.

The predatory species of the world will include representatives of all of the following: giant spiders, giant scorpions, giant snakes, giant beetles, wolves, squid, fish that float in midair, gargoyles, golems, carnivorous plants, chimeras, griffons, cockatrices, hydras, minotaurs, burrowing things with big claws, things that can paralyse you, things that can put you to sleep, things that can petrify you, at least twenty different creatures with poisonous tentacles, and dragons. Always dragons.

At some point, you're going to have to talk to a tree and do what it says.
And why didn't they use a phoenix down on Aeris?

The Moral Of The Story (Ghaleon Rule)
Every problem in the universe can be solved by finding the right long-haired prettyboy and beating the crap out of him.


I hope you find this useful, I found the list at this site right here
THE SITE.

I didn't make this. I agree with a few points on this though.

I believe these topics have been adressed a thousand times, and I sorta agree and disagree with these.

You have removed a huge amount of key points in video games plots. The things you have listed are not automatically bad, how they are executed changes everything.

For example Yggdra Union, my favorite SRPG starts with an emperor killing the king of Fantasinia and controlling the country, you play as Yggdra, the princess from this country wielding the Gran Centurio the Holy Sword as she escapes and attempts to recover her country from said emperor. Sounds overused? Even worse when you hear that the emperor has dragon blood which makes him really strong.

Now I loved this game, both for its gameplay and story. But wait, didn't I just say the story was completely cliche? Well


There were more plot twists in that game, but I can't remember them.

Riviera the Promised Land is another game made by the same company, and I loved the story in that one as well. Why? While the story involves your typical angels and demons stuff, the characters were wonderfully developed and the events throughout the game were also presented in a nice way.

TL;DR: It's not the stuff you use what makes your story cliche, it's how you execute it.

That's not exactly cliche, it's actually really cool. I've played both of those, and I do agree with your last sentence, and I agree, but maybe it's just that people who aren't exactly experienced with RPGM take waaay too much from Final Fantasy.

Yeah a lot of that is gunning for Final Fantasy which executed their stories rather well. It's in the hands of novices that this stuff becomes subpar.

In the end the game is great based on a number of factors. The ability for the designer/developer to fully explore their characters, their plots, the psychology of the events, and the boundaries of the narrative and their reality is what will make the game good; After game play of course. There is a line where you can get away with unexplainable things. Final Fantasy proves that.

To be honest, I could include almost every of your examples in a game and not have it suck. Avoiding cliches is an excuse for those who can't admit they can't pull them off right.

That's actually a very good point, there's a reason why these things do appear a lot within this genre. They work, however you can't just plonk them in and think that's that, you've got to include your own spin or adaptation of them.
You won't really see a unique idea, only different angles of the same concept. Learning to make them less obvious is key to development.

Exactly, of course the ideas "work" but playing another Final Fantasy fangame just is not as satisfying then playing a unique (I'm not saying a fangame can't be unique) game to me.

So...

I can't make a game where I play as the orphaned son of a legendary swordsman living in the village of Mapleleaf near the upper left coast of the map where the bandits burn it down and steal my sister and I venture out to save her and visit a castle and fight a dragon and have my best friend betray me so I avenge my father then someone dies and we all somehow fight Satan and save the world?

Darn.

My story breaks a few of these "rules". God damn what the heck, here's a quote of all the rules I'm "breaking"

Me: The main character is a Dark Knight.

Me: Demons attack the village.

Me:.. uhhh? Most RPGs need dungeons O_*pop*

Oeh, I inspired someone to make a new topic. Cool.

I see some 'Grand List of RPG Cliche'-inspired points there. I agree with most, in particular:





God, those are always so annoying.

I don't mind the names too much, though, if they're used in a serious manner. The Black Knight could be the nickname for some solemn and merciless knight in black clothing serving a Lord/Lady. Although a nickname like 'The Hound' sounds more original, I think. Anyway, using 'Black Knights' as a title for knights with absorption magic and ridiculously big swords and heavy armor would be rather bad.

And the area-cliches are fine as well IMO. They're as much a 'cliche' as using castles.

ON THE UPSIDE THOUGH, the majority of RPG Makers being unoriginal makes it easier for us to produce something oustanding.

[Edit] Reached the end of your post and just saw the link to the Grand List, heh.

Two points I'd like to bring up, off of what I've read elsewhere:

1) Dragoon =/= Dragon Knight, despite what FF4, FF5, and FF:'OMG Liet fan gaem' try to tell you. A Dragoon was a soldier with a specialized form of training; the originals were mounted infantry.

2) While I can't speak for 'Dark Knight' (A term I've only heard applied to the Batman), a 'Black' knight, according to some of what I've seen, is basically a knight with no current master; the concept appears to be loosely similar to what I understand of the 'Ronin'. The title 'black' for them came from their shields; for an unemployed knight, covering your shield and its heraldry with pitch is easier than keeping it properly polished.

Well I know about the Dragoon's original meaning (I play a lot of Age of Empires.)
and I always assumed black/dark knight meant un-holy, considering in FF4 Cecil turned into a Paladin, although he wasn't exactly evil.

As a matter of fact I want to see a game with a completely different plot, than most RPGs I've played.

I would like to see:



More Female lead roles - There is nothing like a chick who looks sexy and can kick your ass. Spikey-haired heroes are getting old.

Unique Weapons - Why does the main character always carry a sword. I would like to see some unconventional weapons like a Tree Stump, a coffin, a teapot, Rake, a towel, or a volleyball. Something that you wouldn't think would be a weapon.

A different time settings. - It is either medieval fantasy, or futuristic Sci-Fi and they tend to get old. I would like to see some steam-punk, Post World War I, Post World War II, Civil War Era, Colonial Fables or American Fables like Paul Bundy John Henry (Engine John), Davy Crockett, Johnny Appleseed, Little Red Riding Hood, and Hansel and Gretel (Which is a horrific tale by the way).

Characters are in it for their own personal gain - Why is every character out to save the world. Why can't the character just be looking for a treasure of some sort. Going on his adventure to better his life, not the world's life. How about a character that wants to rule hell so he wants to create his own hell on Earth!

Less Allegories and more Human - Why does every antagonist have to be pure evil, or the embodiment of evil. Why can't they be just a misguide human being. I will feel for that character more than I would for the purely evil person. Look at the greatest villains ever created...

Darth Vader
Magneto
Every Single Metal Gear Solid Villain
Arthas from World of Warcraft
Illidan from World of Warcraft
Shinra Corporations - I like this better than Sephiroth, only because they are the most human villian in the game. They may not even be considered villains.

Different varieties of characters Why is every character the same. The only difference is the hair and the sex. I would like to see a main character that is overweight, or ugly, or nerdy, or gay, or black, or hispanic, or Aborigonese, or native American, or Muslim, or Jewish, or has turrets syndrome, balding, is old, or a baby

Exaggerated Characters - Make characters that are a bit over the top. For example there is this game where the character is so freaking over the top that he is awesome. I loved every single moment of this characters presences. This game is Makai Kingdom.
"I'M A FREAKING BADASS OVERLORD!!!!!"

A unique backstory - Why does every character have to lose family members in order to be a hero. Why can't it be that he lost his job and he has no means to support his poor family, and so he set out on a journey to look for the ultimate treasure. His family is still alive, maybe you could use that for the backdrop of the story. When the protagonist is about get the treasure, he has to choose between the ocean of gold or his families lives (Cliche but just an example). Many main heroes are either trained badasses, or they come from royalty, or they secretly have a hidden power locked away. Why can't they come from a humble background, like a slave or something.

Mismatch relationships - Why is it that the Hottest Girl or Hottest guy always gets with the Hottest Guy or the Hottest Girl. Why can't it be that the Hottest Girl gets with an ugly and doofy looking guy, or the Hottest guy gets with an ugly and doofy looking girl. There is more but it is going to take me time to type it all.

A lot of what Jackal has described has been done before. (Though not all in one game.) Some do well, some do not.

A fine example of a company who makes their games with unique premises like the ones described is Atlus. Any number of their games incorporate what you've described. Check them out. They're one of my favorite companies.

Games done in the manner you've suggested are harder to execute. That is why you don't see them as often. Between reaching your target audience and developing gameplay, it's hard to do that long list of things and succeed to a highly acclaimed level. Especially for novice game makers.

Using these rules would create a comic-relief styled game. One that would probably not take itself very seriously. (Ever seen an RPG Maker game that doesn't take itself seriously? Yeah. My point exactly.)

Thus, you'll run into a few cliches. There's a topic around here too about reductive design that makes a good point about introducing plot elements. If you do it, do it with a clear impact on the character(s) it's affecting.

Unfortunately my current game synopsis probably wouldn't be liked by Twin-Matrix, but I am confident in how I'm telling it. So, I know there's potential. I think we can't be bogged down by these silly list of cliches, and trying to avoid them. Rather we must understand how to execute them well.

What I am saying is that I have a really short attention span. Once I see a 16 yr old spikey haired hero with a huge sword, I automatically lose interest. Automatically I say, played it before. Why does a game have to be silly if it has an overwieght hero, that carries a tree-stump for a weapon, and fights like a ninja. I'm pretty sure a lot more people would look at this and say, "hmm I wonder what this is about?" It could be dark and brooding, and it can be silly and over the top. Just the fact that playing the same type of hero gets boring after a while. Why can't a story about an 7 year old mercenary be an awesome thing to play. It may sound silly on paper, but if DONE CORRECTLY it can be taken seriously too.

Yes, but anything "Done Correctly" is... well... done correctly. It's getting to that point that's the problem.

Could I take a tree-stump wielding, overweight, seven year old mercenary who fights like a ninja and make people take the game seriously and achieve the goal of the game being well praised? No. Could a professional game designer? Still pretty doubtful.

Could I take that same concept and make it work in a game focused on hijinks and antics and absurdities? The idea is still too over the top, may find difficulties.

I admit I am much more interested in a game like Zesty-Fruits Dream-Knights than I am some KH/FF clone. But you'll find yourself far more drawn to a game that hides it's cliches well rather than one that avoids them altogether.

You'll learn that the key to being an amazing designer isn't throwing around theories. It's putting something down on paper, then bringing it to life with design and seeing if it flourishes or fails.

As a matter of fact you can. As long as it works well with the story. A fat overweight guy can be a main character. It is just that some unwritten rule is out their that says all main characters have to be beautiful. If the character is not beautiful, it can't be taken seriously. That is a load of bullcrap. There is a lot of serious over the top stories out there. In which Cliches out weight them all. When I mean by over the top stories, I mean make their pesonalities over the top. For example, if the guy is lazy, make him the laziest guy you ever think of. You can use that in the opposite way. The worlds strongest man is actually a 9 year old kid. The idea of a 9 year old strong man is just interesting. Or that strong man could be 80 years old and should be in a nursing home; but he is still out there fighting crime. These are interesting stories. A spikey haired sixteen year old kid that carries a sword, is over done, and most game developers would push your idea to the side. If you do not grab your audience at first glance then the game wasn't worth buying. Being over the top would immerse the players into that character and wonder what he is going to do next. To me that sounds a lot better than sitting there knowing that all the cliche' character is going to do is whine, or spit out some badass one-liners. Mass Effect was known for over the top characters and the game was still being taken seriously. Though it stuck with cliches, but I did not say to avoid all cliche. Just avoid the trends of having the usually Final Fantasy or Xenogear story. Why does the Main character always fall for the timid healer. Why not the badass warrior or assassin girl. (Which I understand what the characters are suppose to represent. (The main character represents the ideal partner for a woman, such as masculinity and strength. While the girl represents gentleness and femininity, kind of a yin and yang thing, but that is another story). Why can't the Hero be the timid guy who gets with the strong female warrior.

Just more variety in character development is probably what I am asking.

Wait I think we are agreeing with each other...

Whatever dude, I'm tired...

That's actually a psychology discussion mingled with theatrics and story-telling. Best to take at least a college course on Humanities to understand that, along with Sociology. Throw in a creative writing course too.

A lot of the techniques you're describing are prevalent in Anime and some Eastern Pop Culture. Be aware that that is a niche in Western culture. It is also a matter of preference.

I personally like Anime. But it's a hobby for me, and not a lifestyle as it is for others. Also to a much lesser extent you may find what you're describing in comic books.

Does that make what you're asking impossible, or undoable? Definitely not. I once again bring you back to checking out Atlus's games. Fantastic job of working with the themes you've described. The company is a well known professional company too.

The main character falling for a strong female is more likely to succeed in a Western game too, where female independence and strength isn't frowned upon as it is in Eastern cultures.

Definitely try playing some games with more Western roots. Variety in character development isn't that difficult to find.

You know whats funny... my cousin just told me the exact same thing you did about the Eastern Culture. He told me to play more Western games. I'll look into Atlus's games.

Good idea. Atlus has some awesome games.

The cliche I really hate in games are that any time the MC falls in love, the person they fell in love with will either be: A) Evil, Killed by the end of the game or will be a princess who is utterly inept at EVERYTHING.