\\\Project of the Month///
\\\May///

||| CLOSED |||

\\\Rules:
- Games from Long Demos and Complete Games can be nominated only.
- The full project title with a link to the original project thread is required to nominate.
- You cannot nominate your own project.
- You can nominate a project from Long Demos and a project from Complete Games, but only one from each.
- The maximum amount of nominees is 10, 5 from Long Demos and 5 from Complete Games.
- Previous winners can not be nominated.

\\\Schedule:
- From the 1st to the 10th of the month nominations will be taken in, if all slots are filled voting begins.
- From the 11th to the 24th of the month the votes will be taken in. [done via two seperate polls, one for Long Demos and one for Complete Games, allowing users one vote for each category]
- 25th to the 28th the winner from Long Demos will go against the winner from Complete Games.
- 29th to the end of the month, the winner is announced.

\\\Nominees:
\\Long Demos:
- Twilight Dance - Tsutanai
- Reincarnations - Krosk
- Beneath - St3rnb0rn

\\Complete Games:
- Spellbinder -OriginalWij

\\\Previous Winners:
-Twice Upon a Hero
-Vacant Sky
-Leo & Leah
-The World Is Made Of Paper

\\\Prizes:
- Userbars for runners up and nominees.
- Userbars for winners, along with an automatic entry to Project of the Year.
- A forumwide announcement for the winner.

Long Demos: Reincarnations (I <3 this game)
Full: Spellbinder

Long Demos: Twilight Dance by Tsutanai

Complete Games:

Updating the nominations, keep them coming!

Long Demos:
After playing about a dozen so far, I can confidently nominate St3rnb0rn and team's title Beneath.
http://www.rpgrevolution.com/forums/index....showtopic=28995

Full Games:
I have not played any yet.

Keeping nominations open until we have enough to start voting. :/

Geez...haven't been playing as many games this month because I've been really busy.

Good luck to the nominees.

Perhaps lack of projects people think are worthy of nomination is the issue?
Should I stop doing PotM and maybe work on something that takes a longer time?

I don't know if it is a lack of quality, or just that right now is a busy time for the general age group that make games. I could understand the lacking of completed games being nominated (So very few ever get finished) however, if people aren't taking the time to even play demo's... I'm not sure if a contest featuring more in depth work would work or not.

Maybe we should prod some of the regular IRC people into trying out a game while they complain how bored they are. ^^

Or, you could allow for 2 nominations in the demo category per person. But only 1 for completed games.

I hope that the PotM continues on, I consider it a goal to try and make my demo reach a point of quality so that it too could be nominated.

You could always do something like RMRK does with 'Seasonal' POTM. This way, by the time that a few months go by, there should be a ton of projects to choose from or nominate.

I also like the 2 nominations for demo and 1 for full version game. Maybe we could bring back repeat winners to see if they could still hold up many months later? Either way, keep it up with this format for now.

Perhaps seasonal may be too large of a time window though, if I had played more completed games or long demos I may nominate, but I got too used to commenting on games under construction.

Yeah, I suggest that the length of nominations be extended while I try out some games.

I don't think seasonal would be too long at all. There really aren't that many great projects with gameplay.

Burn.

Lol, I guess we should all get our asses in gear if we want this thing to stick around, huh?

I guess, I think I might settle for a bigger competition, but just make it Project of the Year or something. I dunno, PotM really isn't working out.

Well, I for one would really hate to see PoTM disappear because it's really the only thing that keeps me playing other people's games. I think one of the problems with the competition right now is that no one on this site (myself included, don't get me wrong) plays anyone else's games because we're all so busy developing our own. That said, I've downloaded all the previous winners because I knew that they had a special quality that I could examine.

I don't know if this would work because I don't know the inner workings of RRR, but could it just be a staff pick? Each month, the staff picks a single demo or completed game and makes the announcement and userbar? I feel like most of the people involved in the process right now are staff anyway. As a developer, I think some of us, including myself, feel awkward because we all want our own projects to win. It might be better to leave it out of our hands.

I don't know how much work that would be for you guys though, so maybe it's an unrealistic suggestion. I'd just hate to see it disappear because I feel like I'd stop downloading games entirely.

I've had ideas for a different monthly competition, I'm going to close this and discuss the new idea with staff then get back to y'all.

If anybody still has suggestions feel free to PM me.

You should keep doing this because you need 12 nominations for a PotY competition. Maybe the staff actually reviewed the projects in development rather than long demos and stuff. Cause I know I've been in the community for a long time and put lots of work into my games with my team, but not once has any of them came up for PotM. Not once.

Maybe if I actually got a nomination for my teams hard work I'd care more, but it's been too many now that i've never seen a single EMD game in production. It's really to the point I just stop looking at nominations to vote because I figure I'm still not there. Even with how much I try to help the community with graphic arts and commissions.

But that's my personal opinion, you can take it or leave it.

There aren't enough quality projects to have multiple nominees each month though. I don't think that would change, even if it was opened up to Games Under Construction.


Well, in this case, it would be because you've not got any gameplay.

Lowering the standards for PotM would just dilute the prestige of the award. I strongly disagree with projects under construction being permitted.

I completely agree with this point.
Aside from the fact that the quality of games, prior to their actual demo release, will almost always be less than that of any demo or completed game; wouldn't even compare in most cases.
(This isn't to discourage those games being created, but rather to help show that they are simply not in a position to be compared to games that have been completed, or at least have a demo.)

I actually couldn't disagree more xD

This would be all well and dandy if the POTM was about quality but it's actually a popularity contest (hey, I'm all for that and it's what I love about it!). If we had reviewers going around and judging the games based on their quality then we would deffinitly need demos but as it stands I think it is more of an issue, like Rob said, as to whether it would really make a difference or not to allow Games Under Construction in. It just seems to be the same people nominating the games and there arn't many of us!

It's a lot easier to throw together a cool pitch for a game and say it's under construction than to actually complete a game. If there are unplayable projects thrown up for vote, then it only further encourages people to not play the games that are nominated - instead, they'll just vote based on how they look.

Plus, it gives incentive to actually finish your game.

Then why complain about a system if you know it is flawed. There are plenty of projects under construction that have plenty of content that should involve the community while it is being created.

That's one thing I've always hated about RRR, one works hard for all and gets no help back. Maybe I'd actually get a demo completed if I had more help than my self seeking out assistance on a seperate website.

Everyone is so prejeduce about long demos and completed projects that it is discouraging to others who don't have enough content or don't want to prematurely release a demo for their game out of pressure to release one. How about working with those who need the praise and help and not so much those better off, we know who has completed games and who has long demos, but I'm going to outright say that about 75% of these demos and completed games are watered down quick releases with little to no effort put forth into the project. It's no wonder you have no projects to put up.

And to Rob:
For your snide remark, I was ready to release a Kailis demo less than a month before my harddrive crashed losing a good portion of the game. I'm sorry i'm so inferior to not release a demo on a project that my team has put hours upon hours of work into just to get it out there. I want my game to look good, which is why I waited, to get bugs out and make sure things are as smooth as I can get them before release. Grief.

Care to back up your claim with some citations? There are about 500 such projects, so can you name which 375 are "watered down quick releases with little to no effort put forth?"

It wasn't a snide remark. Project of the Month is for Long Demos and Complete Games. If you haven't got either, you have no chance of being nominated. That was all my point was.

The point still stands that even with Games Under Construction being allowed, there probably won't be enough quality games for Project of the Month.

Yes I'm sure I could. If I did not have a job that prevents me from playing all of these projects I'd give you a list of projects i don't think are up to par.

The point I'm trying to make is that you guys never give credit to those actually working hard, they are the ones that need it the most right now. If you are running out of completed/demo projects, you need to expand your horizon and think outside the box. I know quite a few developers who have gotten extremely lucky with their projects to get them completed. At the same time, I know quite a few others who are still working on the same projects and have been for some years now along with my team's project. I think higher of them than all the people who got lucky. It's great that they're suceeding but I also see potential in those that they shadow.

"You guys" refers to the Project of the Month, right?

There's no reason a featured Game Under Construction couldn't exist, except for that there needs to be a good number of quality projects to choose from, which I maintain, there are not.

Another reason to make the POTM more of a seasonal thing, or a 3 month waiting list before doing one.

Because, yeah, there aren't a lot of projects to choose from in a one month span unless you want some broken down demos and games that aren't really completed... Another thing that we could do is drop the POTM and just focus on some upcoming games that are showing a lot of promise and poise, then other members can post about anything particular they have played in the past few weeks that might garner a look or two.

EDIT: 500th Post! Woot!

Yes it does.

Then there is no reason to call it Project of the Month. Why not just call it Completed Game of the Month or Long Demo of the Month? At least then I'd give you more credit for what you claim this event is really for.

Tch - I liked it better when I ran PotM. At least when I ran it, the staff picked the nominations and there were 3 categories : Completed Game, Project, and Sandbox Project of the Month. All 3 won and you didn't run out of nominations so quickly. As well there was a 3 month wall for all nominated projects to wait before being renominated and projects that won, had a 1 year wait so that we could conduct a legitimate Project of the Year competition.

I tried to give you guys some advice, you can take it or leave it. But it seems like you're all stuck up on your selves and to brave to say that you're wrong.

Hey, that doesn't sound half bad, Axerax.

(How come you stopped running it, then? Either way, I like that idea, too.)

What happened to it? I can only see one thread, for September 2008. If there was only one, I don't see how you can claim that you didn't run out of nominations.


Because we disagree with you, we're "stuck up on ourselves and too brave to say we're wrong"?

Glad to see someone agrees with me.

I can answer that and it will answer the quote below here. If you were around when I was still moderating this and chat you would know that I had joined the Navy. I went to bootcamp shortly after putting up the nominations. I passed along the torch to From_Ariel and a few others who wanted to keep it going. Everyone liked my idea and I figured it would continue until I could come back and take back the reigns.

Unfortunately for me even after changing the forum, to what I think was more organized, the new crew decided to tear down everything I built up.Please note that I spent a month and a half before going to bootcamp pruning the projects forum, something that apparently no one noticed or cared to acknowledge me doing, just to allow for a more fair PotM thread. As well the forum organization changed once again and so all of my work, before hand when I had time to work with RRR full time, disappeared.

When I came back it was being ran by someone else, and this is within 3 months time, I was fairly upset and couldn't believe the damage. I stopped caring and let it fall apart. Harry picked it up later on after my first deployment maybe shortly before the end of it, but now here it is at the standstill. The forum still continues to change and there is nothing I'm going to do to change it for bad or for good.



No because you are refusing to see the truth behind what I am saying. You know I am right and won't say so. Maybe this is because you want to win your own arguement, I may not be right in assessing this, but it's what I gather from all the hostility to someone who is giving a solid suggestion to help the situation. But seriously, who puts up an argument to try and win it, why even open your mouth? If you are really so dead set on fixing this mess then maybe you should take the help you get... Jeez.

I wish I wouldn't have even offered to help such a lost cause.

I believe the projects being referred to are recent projects.


I don't think you're right about including Games Under Construction. My main point has been that there aren't enough quality projects, even with Games Under Construction. You raised the point that in your Project of the Month "you didn't run out of nominations so quickly", but there's no evidence of that. I checked your Project of the Month thread, and there are 23 nominations! You said in your post earlier...


You would run out of nominations. So it's not me "refusing to see the truth", or me "knowing you are right" or me being "stuck up on myself". I just think you're wrong.

Also, there is the argument given by Sailerius.

Axerax- the forum was run by the same "crew" as when you left, you were thanked at the time when you first made the changes and equally you know that it was returned to the old layout because of member complaints.


http://www.rpgrevolution.com/forums/index....c=20758&hl= This is in the archives- relating to your POTM?

What Games Under Construction are worthy of PotM and how many worthy games are made a month?

"Guys, please revamp the system so my gam gets in"
-Axerax

You are so childish. Someone tries to help you and then you do this. I'm done here. I don't care if my projects make it or not.

I was suggesting to open it to that, because that's how it originally was.

How can anyone even assume I would be so selfish to want to boost myself like that, how underhanded is that? Especially as how often I have attempted to appease and help the community as a whole with what little talents I have to provide to the public.

I was at least open with everyone and accepting of suggestions when I ran it.

You were NOT in charge at that time, when I left. Sadly the only thing that did not come of that post was me going to California, not that it matters, my orders changed.

What games are worthy of PotM in games under construction? How about actually looking at the projects yourself, rather than rely on the community, they are counting on you as much as you count on them to make the right choices. There is a famous quote that explains this situation thoroughly... You can't always get your cake and eat it too. or even better If you want something done right, do it yourself.

I'm not going to sit here and be punked around by you all. Seriously the only one sensibly accepting anything here is HarryB, even he himself is sceptical, but I explained how it utlimately falls on him to look at them and figure it out himself. My only suggestion was to open it to Games Under Construction, with no intentions of getting my game in there even if I used mine as an example, but that was not accepted only beaten and battered without question as to why do you think this will work.

You're not being punked. Arguments against what you have suggested have been provided. Also, you have made unsubstantiated claims like "you didn't run out of nominations so quickly" with your version of Project of the Month.

It's probably that.

I wouldn't have, had I not had to leave and drop the ball to someone else. Can you explain to me about 5 nominations from each category would run out? When some people are saying there are 500 completed games? Then there shouldn't be a problem there because that's 60 games. 60 from each category.

My problem is that RRR wants to call it Project of the Month, but refuses to use exactly what I'm suggesting to add... Projects... I made the point pretty clear that you, as in you the staff members, should be picking the nominee's. This would include being able to decifer a quickly put together topic from a project that has obviously had time put into it. Rather than only picking from Completed Games and Long Demos. This contest is more of a pissing contest than a contest of effort and value.

If enough people are on board to give it ago I will try to reboot this next month to include Games Under Construction,
the reason we ran out of projects is because nobody was nominating any more, implying that nobody thought any other projects were worthy of Project of the Month.

I'm still geared towards Project of the Year and just having the best projects of this year nominated to vote for.

Perhaps a competition called something like Monthly Project Awards and rather than whole projects winning, certain projects are nominated for different categories?
Like Best Character, Best Mapping, etc etc.

Because, as I said, when we say projects, we are talking about recent projects.

I understand the name thing, but I just don't think there are enough projects of quality to make it worthwhile to open it up to Games Under Construction.

I'm happy that you'll at least consider it. I can't begin to explain my beliefs as to why no one is nominating, but my suggestion is all I can muster on how to help.

I'd hope so.

That might work better, because then the top 5 nominations could be brought up and multiple nominations as well.



So what you're telling me, is if it is older than a year in development you'd over look it? Seems rather selfish or better yet, biased. There are plenty of projects over a year that look way better than some of these completed games and demo games. And that's all i've been trying to say is that very thing, because it's what I believe is truth, whether you agree or not that's how I will always look at that.

You may not think so, but you shouldn't let your opinion rule out everyone elses, then you just look like a dictator. This is a community, if people had a chance to vote on those projects I'm sure they would, but you limit what they can look at as a project of the month by doing how it is.

It's like looking at some hilton hotel that is gorgeous, then looking at the trump tower. Sure the hilton is already there and nice, but dang trump tower will out match it once it is done. It's a similar analogy.

In order to solve the lack of nominations, all that has to be done is to increase the scope of the award a little bit. Rename 'Project of the Month' to include something more broad, such as 'Indie Project of the Month' and instead of limiting nominations to projects only posted on RPG RPG Revolution, reach out a bit and include projects posted anywhere with any engine. However, the nominated project must not be established. This is to prevent nominations for games such as 'Braid' or 'World of Goo' to name two and instead focuses on a.) Newly released Indie games or b.) previously unknown games, then whoever is running IPOTM will contact the one who was nominated and inform them. This will open up hundreds of thousands of potential nominations. Indie flash games, indie commercial games, freeware, etcetc.

This has a few benefits for RRR. The first and most obvious is additional exposure outside of RPG Maker communities, which will bring in additional talented and more robust developers to this community. The second is RPG RPG Revolution will be talked about more outside of RM communities, give every winner and finalist/runner-up a a nicely designed medal image they can display on their site/topics. (Like in commercial games where it frequently lists awards the game has won) Lastly; although unlikely, is if a nominated game ever hits it big like 'Braid' or 'World of Goo' and RRR was involved in it's early success, its fair to assume the developer will hold a special place for RRR, which will increase the odds of them becoming a more long-term and contributing member. You may have noticed the common theme here is exposure.

After looking through the RM categories and reading through this topic, it's fair to assume that relying solely on RPG Maker games has become a bottleneck. Therefore the easiest solution would be to keep the foundation in place, but raise the roof. Turn PoTm into something which can bring in additional developers to the community, additional exposure and increased traffic.

My two cents.

That would be pretty cool. We can expose people to the other types of games so that people can look outside of their RMVX RTP hero has a tragic past and village got burned down and now 2 kingdoms are at war types of games and see what people outside the community are really working on.

I'd highly highly recommend Recettear for that nomination.
http://www.carpefulgur.com/recettear/

No, I'm not telling you that at all. I'm saying that there aren't enough quality projects that are actively being posted in.

Selfish? That doesn't make any sense.

Or just remove the need for nominations. My game has never been there because it's never been nominated >.> (I know that means it's not worthy, but you said there were lack of completed games to put forward so). You could just put all games released in x month into a poll.

That would be a good idea, but there might be too many projects in one month for a poll.
I'll try to keep a tally of how many new threads are made in one month and we could take it from there?

This is a great idea in theory. But will RRR take the time to outsource and inform these websites that nominations are being taken for RRR's PotM by utilizing games from their website? The benefits are as you said, but the reality of such a IPotM like this coming into the light will not occur unless this website is prepared to take those extensive measures to cover their bases to make sure it is ran correctly.

I can agree, if they were invloved in the sucess even I would hold a special thanks for the site in the credits and my heart. Because who wants to forget their roots?

Yes they have become bottle necked, even if we have game maker games. Maybe we should outstretch RRR itself into an Indie Game Development website?

HarryB, I agree with you there. Your numbers will never be the same, it'll be one month (i.e. in the summer) 20 games developed and then another (i.e. in the winter) where you have 4 games developed. Now you've got uneven nomination lists. Good idea in theory, but poor in translation to reality.

Why not try something new like the best promising game in construction of the month or something. This will be due to presentation of threads and promises in them which have to be proven through display of story, ideas, screenshots and videos that could promote projects in progress to show evidence. In all fairness it is getting rather boring seeing the same projects being nominated all the damn time. Vacant Sky is a prime example. We know it's a good game and one of the best in the community. But we know little about other projects that are in development. I know they are completed games but it can also give other developers WIP to gain some attention and shine too. Then they can either live up to the hype when they are released or fail miserably. This way more members are likely to want to come and join the community.

I truly agree with what Salerius said about its more difficult to release a full game than just to make promises of a good game. Why not just assess the projects in progress due to the amount of proof they have of their supposed quality which can be seen from screenshots, videos, the actual story and the way the thread is presented. This way the community will feel more like they are actual members and feel valued rather than just people constantly giving Kudos to the supposedly dominant projects that always get seem to get chosen.

Just remember something that is very important. A lot of the members may feel discriminated that they cannot rise up the hierarchy to show their skills as a developer because their projects never get the chance to shine so they put less effort into development and rush it just to get attention. I'm not taking sides but the games under construction actually gives the most feedback to players. It's also where most of the developers post their projects.