I was on a project reading spree today, and what is with all those heroes, prophecies, chosen ones and 1000 year themes? Where does this trend come from, and why do RPG Makers use it this much? It's so uninspirational and cliche, yet apparently very popular. Even Final Fantasy isn't that bad. I just felt my creativity oozing out of me with every paragraph I read. I wish there were more original and down-to-earth stories like George Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire.

It might be that it sounds epic or something. Its the "A long long time ago," idea. But really, a long long time ago could just be 100 years.

And actually, Final Fantasy V was that bad. The bad guy was even named X-death. Now THAT is unoriginal.

I don't know where exactly it comes from though, but it is kind of irritating. The only place I've seen it done really well was in the Sword of Truth series. It had just about every cliche known to fantasy, but it was amazing!

Maybe to a 5 year old... :')


Yeah, the old ones. Was talking about the new ones. (:

well considering no one on these forums was alive 100 years ago ^^

Ah, no, I agreed with you. I meant to say that the cliches we were talking about might sound epic to a 5 year old, heh.

In case you missed the memo (or only played the PS1 version, whose translators really missed the point), FF5's plot was never intended to be taken seriously.

Legendary heroes are fine as backstory; their descendants as player characters, not so much. Every culture has some sort of mythical hero figure, like Hercules or Sindbad. However, those stories are rarely actually true, and even if they are, there's no guarantee the descendants of said hero will be as great as their forefather. Families branch out a lot in a few generations, each generation introducing new blood into the family, not all of it high pedigree. Why are the hero's descendants always heroic as well, and not, say, meek, retiring accountants? It's been eight generations since Gandor the Stoic, after all, and dad was a hairdresser...

And on that note, couldn't some of these ancient legends be exaggerated and embellished in the telling, changing as it passes from storyteller to storyteller from generation to generation? Couldn't they be just flat out wrong to begin with?

Also, I've never, ever, liked prophecy as a plot device. It gives away the ending before the game even starts, and it cheapens the achievements of the protagonist. I've never liked chosen ones for the same reason. It's more interesting if the hero is just a relatively normal (if unusually capable and strong willed) guy or girl from a normal family who makes a stand because no one else will, and because it's the right thing to do, and has to struggle and suffer to achieve their goals. If the hero was always meant to vanquish evil with their sacred powers because destiny says so, then it's just par for course, nothing special. Boring.

I have no problems, on the other hand, with big time skips in game history. Fantasy writing has never been known for it's sense of scale.

Points well made in Milton's post.

I gotta admit though, the whole chosen one prophecy filler is a sign of high inspiration but low creative edge. They give a character power rather quickly and easily, and allow them an excuse to why they're surpassing their peers and capable of great feats. (See Gary Stu)

I actually think it's worse to have a character that's a total bad-ass but no explanation for why. (Even worse when no one acknowledges his crazy powers, like it's normal.)

I think one of the biggest problems with the Children of the Prophecy mold is that most of it is the character getting their great power, then totally knowing what to do with it and how to use it. In reality, if you're given a huge amount of power you're:
A) Gonna be clueless on how to use it.
Not have any idea what it's intended purpose is.
C) Struggle with the responsibility behind it.
D) Watch it change your entire life and the lives of those around you.
I think recognizing these factors allows this story to be told properly. There's fine examples in many praised series.

I'm actually not sure where this archetype comes from. It certainly is popular. Perhaps it's a play off the Pauper to Prince idea found in many fairy tales we see. Unfortunately I'm unfamiliar with it's origins, but maybe someone else knows.

Not sure what discussing it will lead to. There's tons of material around advising against this approach. The people writing those are not the type to read this or that though. There's plenty of psychology behind why youth are more likely to write a story like the aforementioned. It speaks to them on a higher level.

I think it just comes down to that a lot of people just know jack about writing a compeling story, so they just shoot for an "epic as possible" theme.

and yet, the prophecy twist is also why the Matrix actually sort of worked, because they've actually went out of their way to subvert the whole thing.

if you want to make a prophecy interesting, disappoint the expectations and give something new to it.
option 1: the prophecy was correct, but it's not the whole prophecy.
done in Quest For Glory 2, where the hero was trying to stop the prophetic great demon from rising and destroying the world. However, the prophecy was actually incomplete, and in the very end, the player finds out there was a bit that prophesied the coming of a hero who would stop the evil in it's wake.

option 2: the prophecy came true, but not in the way you THOUGHT it would
Pretty much how the web comic Order of the Stick handles prophecies. You need to leave enough room for interpretation in your prophecies to make this work though.

option 3: the prophecy was wrong all along, and it was made abundantly clear through course of story that it was wrong
In this model, the player figures out the prophecy is wrong around the mid point, and the tone of the story changes as they go from working on an agenda to having to think on their feet

option 4: prophecy was wrong all along, but you don't find out until the end
kind of a variant of option 2, but basically, your prophecy was wrong because it fails to take into account a crucial aspect of the events. Or it could be out and out just something a bunch of cultists believe.

option 5: prophecy was wrong all along, player pretty much figures it out REALLY early in the story, but throughout the course of the game, it came true in a fashion because of the player's actions, which twists the twists.
Think a variant of the Matrix. the prophecy states that The One would rise and save humanity, and was misinterpreted as humanity rising over the machines again. But in reality, Neo was simply there to ensure humanity survives in the most pathetic fashion. In the end though, Neo DOES save humanity by forging a truce between the machines and humanity through the sacrifice of his own life, utterly subverting the subversion and actually making the prophecy TRUE again.

I think people are drawn to it because it's a classic scenario. It's the same reason why most characters are 16yo boys with spiky hair. Or the reason why the female romantic interest is a timid healer.

Most people who get into game making are inspired by the games they play, and they stick with the familiar formula that worked in game X. I don't think anyone intentionally sets out to make a horrible cliched game, but a lot of people don't know that their cool idea has been done before. They will learn through feedback and discussions, or abandon game development altogether.

I, personally, don't mind it so much. It can be a really great plot device when used right. And if used wrong ... Well, it's a good example of things to avoid when developing my own projects.

There are far worse offenders - bugs, terrible grammar/spelling, boring features and characters - that make games seem bad.

Yeah, I agree with Lunarea. Ancient prophecies/chosen ones is just a classic. It gives to the characters (and the player) a certain importance in relation the game's world. Basically, you just shift the hero from being a inhabitant of the world to make him (yes, him, the hero is generally male >_>) to being the embodiment of the world itself. It's also an easy way to give the hero a motivation ("you save the world because you're the only one who can do so"), motivation that can become different and more personal as the story progresses.

It's a little cheesy said like that, but done correctly it works. You can't completely avoid clichés in a game, anyway.

As has been previously stated, these elements have been around forever and have been proven to be effective storytelling. If they didn't work for so many stories, they wouldn't be part of so many archetypes.

Actually that's a good point. Lets delve right into it.

The prophecy storytelling has been around for a long time. It's been used and reused. There's no lack of examples where it's done effectively. The story has been told a million times before. As a budding story-teller it's probably the best resource you can use, and provides the most comfort and confidence to the one telling it. We all know what happens. So it's easy to tell. Far easier than some of the exotic tales told. In essence, there's no risk in using it. You won't get bogged down figuring out what happens next.

In the hands of an expert it's gold, and in the hands of a novice it's at least got some potential.

But in the end these tales will become faceless remixes that blend together, no matter how well they're told. "The Way" will always be memorable to me because the story was so unique (And vividly disturbing at the end.) But it didn't deviate from some form of familiarity.

I want to come back to 2 points made here to close:

1) While effective storytelling, it is over-told. Using this archetype will force your story into a sea where it will begin to blend with similar stories.

2) The success of this archetype in any story hinges on whether or not you address the weight that comes with it and the changes prophetic power and revelations bring. (Illustrated in my previous post.)

I doubt the use of it will automatically force your story back into a meld of immemorable retellings; "the chosen one" is the launching point for Tales of Symphonia, but it told one of the most popular stories of the GC/PS2 generation of RPGs. Why? Because of what was done with it.

By the end of the game, the characters had delved deep enough to discover just how a chosen one was selected and all the ramifications of having one in the first place, how this tradition and ritual was formed... and whether or not it was needed anymore, with the cost that it was putting on the world to have it!

Hell, that whole story was designed to start off as cliche as possible, using all sorts of familiar plot devices - but became unique and memorable because it systematically turned each of them on their head and dealt with the significance of them, and asked why they were the way they were.

There is a heck of a lot of good to be had there. But ultimately, the good comes not from simply throwing these things in; it's about doing something interesting with them once they're a part of your world. And, yeah - if you're advertising your game using them, chances are people aren't going to be that impressed wtih the story you've created when you're just throwing a summary at 'em. That's the risk you run.

Oh no, right off the second you use it you are indeed forcing your story into a vast sea of similar stories. It will automatically be cliche, and all too similar to the others. You can break free of this by introducing powerful plot points and good story telling devices. Certainly just because you use this archetype doesn't mean you've automatically set yourself up for failure. It just means you'll need to get creative with an already very structured device.

I probably should have been more specific - I wrote that whole bit in response to:

Yes, you threaten to end up such; but that doesn't mean that you are automatically condemned to eventually be lost if you use them.

well, let's put it this way, using a story archetype that is used a million times by itself won't destroy your game. But you need to know how to make it work. That is what Titanhex is saying. Most people do not know how to make it work. In addition, it's also another element that you see repeated over and over again on top of the other things that get repeated, i.e. using the standard RTP sprites. Sure, a single thing won't doom your game to look just like everyone else's, but do it enough and eventually your game will become indistinguishable from everyone else's.

I am very very sure that the '1000 years' is referring to my game Basically because from what I see, I'm the only one who used this theme in the page 1 of Long Demo (Maybe not? I'm not sure for this....)

This stuff really bugs me too. Very few stories ever address PERCEPTION and HUMAN FALLIBILITY. I mean, this is how easy it is to write an original but cliche story:
So you're the greatest warrior of your village. From a young age you've been told you are descended from a great hero. You will free the world from tyranny, it is written in stone. You are the chosen one.
This is an established paradigm in many games, and here's how easy it is to introduce a twist:
Your not the only descendent.
Not far away there is another, say your second cousin three times removed, his village also believed him to be the chosen one and raised him to be a great warrior too. In fact, he's better than you. So if you want to save the world, you're gonna have to remove him from the picture. You become rivals for many years.
But one of you isn't even a descendent of the hero, or it turns out the hero was just an ordinary guy. The prophecy was written by some crack pot. The only reason you're a great warrior is because you've been told you are.
And in the end there isn't any evil either, things are pretty much more peaceful than they've ever been. People just wanted something to support.
The two of you are furious. You join arms and set up a hoax. One of you raids the town as an evil knight, the other gives chase, collecting weapons and support off of the towns people for an evil that doesn't exist.
Your second cousin three times removed runs off with the loot one day and you're furious. You put together a party and track him down, along the way you begin to feel for the adventure and helping other people. When you finally find your old rival you challenge him to a one on one match, you best him but allow him to live, you even let him keep the treasure, because you feel like a hero again and that's all you ever wanted.

There, a fairly original story even though it's loaded with cliches. It's not a great story, and would probably make a fairly mundane game, but it's original and cliched All you have to do is challenge the cliche, do something with the cliche that most people haven't thought of.

Your story is also a good example of how swimming against the current can have just as negative effect on your game as swimming with it.

The game would be mundane, and the story isn't very good. Likely the game play would be pretty meh. That synopsis doesn't sound like any game I'd want to play. Sometimes it's not such a bad idea to make a game that follows the cliche rather closely. The trick would be to making it work for your game, not breaking the cliche.

Getting bogged down in trying to be original and avoiding cliches is just as harmful as over-using them. A story that touches on the humanness of itself is a good story, whether it be riddled with cliches or not.

The real question is, why can't we find a DIFFERENT cliche to follow instead of this prophecy, 1000 years story. How about we list some other cliches in video game stories?

A few of the ones I see pop up often...

Missing Loved One - The protagonist's girlfriend/boyfriend/parent/sibling/pet rock/whatever has vanished/been kidnapped/brainwashed/returned to their home planet. The player's primary objective is to find or rescue their loved one and bring them home. Said loved one is also often a McGuffin some villain needs to fulfill their schemes.
EX: Lunar: The Silver Star; Tales of Legendia

The Tourney - The protagonist is in a tournament, contest, or other sort of competition with other adventurer types. The prize is something highly desirable to the protagonist, so he or she is hellbent on winning. There will very likely be many side adventures between rounds of the contest.
EX: Summon Night: Swordcraft Story; Atelier Annie: Alchemists of Sera Island

Revenge! - As badly overdone as the child of prophecy bit. The antagonist has done the protagonist dirt (often in the form of burning down their village or murdering some of their loved ones, or both), and he's not going to take it lying down.
EX: Waaaaay too many to list.

All in a Day's Work - The protagonists belong to some sort of civic-minded, often government-sanctioned, guild of heroes for hire. Saving the day, doing fetch quests and vanquishing monsters is just how they pay the bills.
EX: Arc the Lad 3; The Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky

Fish Out of Water - The protagonist is a long way from home and just wants to get back, which is often a monumentally difficult task in and of itself. Goes all the way back to The Odyssey.
EX: Star Ocean 2; Final Fantasy Tactics Advance

Evil Empire - Big, wealthy nations in RPGs are invariably evil. The protagonist is either a rebel against the oppressive regime, a soldier of a country being menaced by a larger force, or one then the other.
EX: Final Fantasy 6; Phantasy Star; Suikoden

The McClane Ploy - The hero is the right man, in the wrong place, at the wrong time. He's a wanderer who just happens to blow into town, all spaghetti-western style, when things start going south, and is just the right man to deal with the resulting mess. There may or may not be a prophecy involved.
EX: The Ys series, the Quest for Glory series

Great Big Honking Conspiracy - The church is corrupt. The nobility is corrupt. The army, too. Those plucky rebels standing up against the corruption? You better believe they're corrupt. They're all in cahoots, and the hero seems to be the only being on the planet with any sort of integrity left. He decides to stand up for what's right, often making himself an outlaw in the process.
EX: Final Fantasy Tactics; Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together

Good list. I think we should take a look at these cliches and think about how you tell them properly. Then you can use a cliche story and rebuild it or just create a good story from them. That's the key. Spreading these cliche ideas so we don't see those Prophecy stories pop up in droves, giving more variety to what's being made.

I think we can all honestly say our stories follow these core game cliches. There's a small handful that don't, but to be honest these classic archetypes are good stuff that we should consider using. Hell, my current project does the "Hero Finding his way home" and The Way follows "Missing Loved One" My previous story followed the "Corruption in the Kingdom."

Perhaps because I don't use the Prophecy setting much I should consider using it.

Yes, as they say, "tropes are not bad". Those are the common settings, but executed well they can still deliver the goods. For example, the revenge story is done a lot because it is a good way to motivate a hero and get the story moving. But you can put some twists on it to make it more unique, to make it your own - for example, show what's going through the character's mind as they seek revenge, or, as Valkyrie Profile Covenant of the Plume does on one route through the story, have the character grow increasingly disillusioned with seeking revenge to the point where they decide that it's not worth it later on.

Another good way to tackle that one is to ask your character "what next?" What are they going to do after they get revenge? If their home is burned to the ground, they have nothing to go back to. If their whole family is dead, and revenge is all they lived for, what reason do they have to carry on? Better make sure they find a new reason to fight before getting there, or otherwise confront that problem somehow.

It's not that the basic story premise is flawed. It's more you've got the standard execution which is all well and good, but used a lot, and scope to do something more interesting, but you really need to work to make that happen.

Revenge is a pretty bad one, though. It's easy to breed unlikeable characters using that as their motive.

Aye, I just sat down to write it as a post. I'd never work on something that rough as a game

Alot of cliche stories can be amazing. I recently watch 'Road to Perdition' the story of a gangster who sets out to get revenge on his own family when they kill his wife and one of his sons. It's cliche, but a terrific film. However, the story certainly isn't built for a game.

When writing for a game you have to bare in mind that the player wants to be immersed AS SOON AS POSSIBLE but a good story takes more time to set up. An early inciting event gets the player hooked, and then a constant bombardment of 'epic' scenarios - each more ridiculous than the last - keeps the player interested. Most games achieve this by constantly upping the ante, they make you stronger but they make it harder. and eventually you're so powerful that the only explanation is being 'chosen'.
The unfortunate truth is that we LIKE cliches we're more comfortable with them. The problem is that people don't bother to have original characters, or an original variant of the cliche.
Or mixing up cliches, where one story becomes another. Take FFVII, one sub-plot is the 'Missing Loved One' which quickly turns into 'Revenge' and stays that way for the rest of the game. The trick to using Revenge is to make the player genuinely mad. The trick to using ANY of the cliches is to get the player emotionally involved, that's the trick to any story telling mechanism.
It doesn't matter if your plots amazing, the audience have to care as well.

I'd rather play a game about a child following a lost pet, than the destruction of the world by some convoluted means, so long as I care more about the child.
Take the 'prophecy' and apply it to FFX. Yuna falls for Tidus, but she can't express that because she knows that she HAS to die to fulfill her duty, so she leaves Tidus in the dark about it. It's also a 'long way home' cliche, and yet we REALLY get dragged in by Tidus' narration. It's also a big conspiracy, and loads of other cliches, but it works because they get you emotionally involved.

Just my two cents on the whole thing.

Nah, not necessarily. In fact, I found your tagline quite good. If you focused on the bittersweet aspect of living for such a long time (farewells, late wives, pain, vengeance, bonds, bloodlines, etc.) instead of immortals, Gods and the usual 'just THIS race has effing advanced technology and they're EVIL!' I think it could be really good.

I just used the most popular uninspiring elements found in games here to demonstrate the lack of inspiration / creativity. So much seems to be the same. Throw in some perceived 'epic' elements, come up with a shallow background story to the world, create some 'epic' characters and whoop you've got your cookie-cutter storyline. Seems to be the popular way for some reason. For example, reading George R. Martin's novels just makes me want to go out and write myself. (Most) stories here make me want to play Peggle and eat milk with cookies. :')

I'm quite happy to see that all but one of the cliches I used are not actually listed here.

For me, the premise of the plot is not important. I don't care if a game is about the Chosen One, prophecies, dreams becoming nightmares, falling down rabbit holes to another land, or about evil empires. What I care most about is what goes on within the narrative. That's what's important to me.

And really, no story is entirely original anymore. I enjoy a good Chosen one story if done well. I enjoy Alice in Wonderland-esque stories if done well, and I enjoy Odysseys if done well. As long as they're interesting, I really don't care what frames the narrative. The frame can be as plain as paper, but if the picture is beautiful, a job well done.

Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door literally has ALL OF THESE (although the "hero" part is actually a side story that explains the TYD) and is one of my favorite RPG's. Heck, "thousand year" is in the title! It's not the cliche, it's how you use it.

In my opinion, your focus shouldn't be on whether something is a cliche or not. The only time cliches are obvious is when the story/plot/dialogue are written badly and the player is removed from the story. If you feel invested and care about the characters, you will be much more likely to think "Holy crap, character X is the evilbadguy!" than to think "This was done in game XYZ." In retrospect, sure, you'll draw parallels. But if you're hooked, you're focused on the game you're playing. A good writer can take the familiar (or even overdone) and turn it into something the reader will care about. In fact, a well-written classic can be more enjoyable than an original piece that the player ends up not understanding.

If the writing is bad enough to not make you feel invested, cliches aren't the problem. You could have the most interesting and innovative plot in the world, but if it's written badly, the player won't get to appreciate it. In this respect, it's better to go with something classic/familiar/cliche. If you can master the familiar, then you'll know how to get the best out of that unique element. You will be able to make innovation work in your favor.

Another thing I wanted to mention is that it's very difficult to pull off a proper story synopsis for a project thread. Game experience can't always be described well, and there's a very fine line between being informative and sharing giant plot spoilers. Because of this, a lot of the descriptions for projects will read pretty generic - when the game is anything but. In the commercial world, there's actually a person hired to write that little blurb you see on the backs of books, video games and movies (which is often someone other than the writer/producer/developer). And even they will occasionally fall short of really describing the contents.

As a player and fellow developer, I've learned to look past the project thread and judge a game based on the game itself. Some of the most disappointing demos I've played had a flashy and fabulous thread, while real gems had threads that are pretty simple or had fewer replies.

It's a good plot device. A lot of RPGs are set in fantasy worlds of dragons, orks, wizards, and... prophecies.

Cliche, but then so are the other three; it's just a genre of game I guess.

Look at this site it is really helpful...

http://www.ipl.org/div/farq/plotFARQ.html



I would like to see a story that is more based on the characters personal gain, like treasure, or wanting to be the world's strongest. I don't see to much of those types of games.

I don't see much of 1000 years going on around here, and I don't see why people should act against these stuff.

Cliche? Yes! uninspirational? No. It's all up to the creator of the game. Many makers use these theme only as bases in order to lead their creations into something new and original. Look at those Tales game. They all start from something very simillar to what you say, but half way through those games, they add something new and original and healthy and disgusting, blah, blah, blah. And the fact that there's nothing on their covers telling anything original doesn't stop them to be best sellers. And don't make me start talking about those very simple looking but whecked up Evangelion and Puella Magi Madoka Magica... pure original beyond words under the mask of "Cliche."

My point is, you should NOT look at things by their covers. Under the simple and overused stuff lies either gold or manure that you won't know they're there unless you try to give them a chance. Don't be a close minded person and reject things because they're simply overused. It doesn't work in the long run.