OK, when it really comes down to it, fan games can be really great. For example, back in the day. Final Fantasy Endless Nova and Final Fantasy Crystal Wings. Both, in my opinion great games to play. Where they had the Final Fantasy name. They had a bit of there own flavor to it. Now, thats not to say fan games cant be horrible. Ive played some really bad ones. Which I wont name because I don't want to throw the creators under the bus. Heres the thing, the reason i think that people have bad feelings about fan games is because of Final Fantasy. WAY to many fan games based off that series. So by rule, they are put under a high standard. Maybe it wouldn't be so bad if there were more Breath of Fire games or Dragon Quest, ect. Why do you think there aren't to many Final Fantasy 7 fan games. Thats because the few attempts that were made, were more of a disaster then Final Fantasy Mystic Quest (SNES).

Fangames to me are a bit like fanfiction. In the hands of an amateur writer you will get a lot of that author's wish fulfillment which may only be enjoyed by a minority of people. However, in the hands of a well rounded designer/writer, then fangames can indeed be good. However, their fangame may still be taken with a mouthful of salt because it is easy to mistrust a fangame. If the material of the original was handled in a way that was appealing to a general audience, then the game has my support.

I tend to avoid most fan-games simply because I'm not a fan of the original games.

Yeah, when it comes to fan-games your usually getting about 50-50 odds that it can live up to the expectations of the original source; and, sometimes, not always, the creator manages to create a pretty good solid title that can rival the game that the fan-game originally was inspired from.

Like what Modesty said before, 'In the hands of a well rounded designer/writer, then fangames can indeed be good.' I mean, take "The Legend Of Zelda: Link's Awakening, that was remade on rm2k3 by a rapid fan, not too long ago -- he did a great job in taking a classic and giving it a fresh coat of paint that 'I,' myself, would play instead of the original gameboy game -- and that‘s saying something! There's also a few Final Fantasy fangames that show some promise. And, yeah, I guess I'll use my game, 'Monopolo,' as an example of a good attempt at a fan game. I decided to give the series a fresh new coat of paint by adding in tons of new features, rules, and characters -- and I think I did a good job.

I have nothing wrong with people making fangames -- if they know what they're doing -- but people should try and make something original, and not something that is borrowed.

I completely agree. That would be like asking James Wong (he directed that hunk of crap Dragonball Evolution) to re-make Star Wars. If you have the right people, with the right skill and ideas. It can for sure be pulled off. However, due the to really low success rate. Its a tough task indeed.

50/50? that's generous.

I don't like fangames, as a general rule.
What I hate even more though are the fangames that would actually be original with a few tweaks.
Take the majority of Final Fantasy fangames, most of what I've seen only have SMALL FF cameos, if you remove those and other FF references it would take minimal effort AND you'd have a completely original game.
Instantly your game is better respected and people are more likely to play it due to it no longer being associated with FF or as a fangame.
It's stuff like that I just don't understand.
I just see them and think: Your game doesn't have anything to do with FF. Why call it an FF fangame?

If It was based on several of my favorite series( Chrono, F-Zero, mario, LOZ etc) I don't mind a fangame here or there as long as they do the originals justice and stick to the story. Otherwise, I avoid them.

For me, im so so on fan games. I dont wanna play a game that has the title and thats it. I want to play a fan game that actually has some stuff in common with the actual series. But honestly, I think FF fan games have a bad rep cause of the fact there are so many of them, in which most of them suck real bad. I think if people did more fan games on other series not just FF. They would get more positive replys. For example, I am doing a game on Pokemon.

that's really just sturgeon's law in effect though. 99% of all things you see are going to be mediocre. Therefore, by having just such a large number of FF fan games, you have a larger number things that are probably going to be mediocre at best.

The thing is though, while we have a huge number of things that suck, I don't actually think fan games in and of themselves is a bad thing necessarily.

think of it like this, to many of your own admission, a lot of the games end up having quite a bit of new stuff in it anyways, right? let's also remember these games are not for commercial purposes, which means that there is no pressure to turn out anything that is necessarily commercially viable.

Fact of the matter is, I don't see a lot of these games as simply a single entity that stands on it's own, but a piece of the puzzle that many game makers use to experiment and try new things. That to me is a good thing, regardless of the franchise that's attached to it. And if the game allows the designer to later on do something even better and original with what he learned, then how can we say that the fan game itself has not contributed to the community in some way?

Yeah, sure, this means we'll see a glut of fangames with this attitude. But you know what? I don't see anything wrong with that. Can we honestly say that it's because it's a fangame that we're weary of it? The game I'm making right now is less of a fangame and more of a remake, but I guarantee 99% of you have never played it. Maybe the problem is not fan games, but the fact that they are Final Fantasy. Maybe what you guys are really looking for, is for people to pursue other franchises to remake. (i.e. I would love to see someone do an Actraiser fan game)

There's nothing inherently good or bad about a fan game.

What I like about making fan games is how it can open up a bevy of resources, concepts and themes that you're not going to get using the normal RTP and traditional methods. Let me try to explain what I mean.

If you call your game Final Fantasy W/E, for RPG Maker that could mean you'll use FF vernacular, sprites, music, and resources from the 2D Final Fantasies 1-6. And from all of that, you can forge your own Final Fantasy. However, if you just end up using the RTP, maybe throw in Gil instead of Gold and Final Fantasize your items, that's a complete waste of even using the label. You might as well make your own series name.

Speaking of fan-games, Udivision, you make some pretty good ones! Your Mario RPG's are the best I have ever seen on the Interwebs.



Probably because I don't play a lot of fan-games, lol. Most of the ones I've played are not too bad. Maybe I haven't experienced the true pieces of crap from the really bad pieces of crap.

Making fangames is stifling your own creativity and crippling your ability to make original original material. Not only are you sabotaging yourself by setting your players' expectations far higher than you could ever meet, but you're also restricting yourself to a predefined universe and mythos instead of allowing yourself to explore and create for yourself. On top of that, it makes the RM community look bad when all visitors see are Final Fantasy, Kingdom Hearts, and Dragon Quest knockoffs.

I do not play fangames and I will not because I do not support otherwise promising game designers shooting themselves in the foot.

Now hold on just a second. My game is a fangame, in the sense of being set in the same universe as the Fire Emblem series, and the same timeline and such as FE6 and 7. However, the story of my game is completely new and not some cheap knock off. I did not think it up in one night and say "OMG AHM GUNNA MAKE A FE FANGAME AND THERE'S GONNA BE LIKE FE CHARACTERS AND OMG ITLL BE TOTALLEE AWESOME HOMESLICE!!1!!!11111!ONE"

It took me 4 weeks to perfect my storyline (And even then I nitpick at certain details and am revising it constantly) and I put a lot of effort into making sure nearly every character in it is a new character, but yet it still fits perfectly within the Elibe continent, and it tells a new portion of the overall Fire Emblem game series.

Fangames can and are good games. Well, I haven't started making it yet, but you can clearly see that I'm building up resources for it and I take it very seriously.

Sailerius is right in the sense that people should try and make something original and unique and not ride on the coat-tails of other companies' franchises just to make yourself look important, because it shows that the creator can't come up with anything other than try and do another person's game that he or she has no business in doing in the first place; but, on the other hand, Klok is right in the sense that some fangames CAN be good if someone pours their very heart and soul into the project and understands the mindset of the series he or she is basing their game on.

I guess there is really no right or wrong answer. People should make what they want to make. As long as the game looks good -- and plays good -- it doesn't matter if it's original or not, people will come and play your game.

I'm going to quote heisenman in another forum:

While I partially agree with Sailerius, fangames aren't mediocre because they are fangames. They are that bad because they're poorly planned, poorly executed, and have absolutely nothing in common with the original, except for the name.
Expanding on an existing universe is a form of creativity and is actually harder than making an universe from scratch, because we need to stick with the model while keeping enough originality to catch the player's interest.
There are good fangames but they're rare. I remember a Streets of Rage fangame made with King of Fighters characters. It was pretty badass.

Whoa, that does sound -- pretty -- bad ass! Where is this game, ol' master of mine?

http://www.jeuxgratuits.net/telechargement.../WFD5oasVJ1OiXv. It's a DOS game so I can't guarantee that it'll work on your computer...

In my opinion, most fan games fail because of lack of skill. I've seen most fan games made look like junk because the creators are newbs to RMVX/XP (mainly VX). This is because they do not know what they can do with the maker so it just seems like fail to the more advanced users like you and I. There are the few fan games that rock, like LoZ Relm of the Gods (although he might need to put out a guide cause I go lost ). So in the end, experience with the maker is everything.

you guys also need to remember, sometimes the very thing that can give people the creative spark is exactly that, boundaries and established mythos.

If you are skilled and put effort into a project, it will probably be a good game. I think that's all that needs to be said.

I see no problems in fan games that don't happen in other games as well. The thing is I think I expect more from a fan game than other games.

When I read "Mainstream Game - Fan Game Subtitle", I come with some inherent assumptions regarding the fan game that usually are not met. However, if I read "New Game - Not a Fan Game", I don't have any assumptions regarding the story or gameplay, so I may fully enjoy the game.

It's not a matter of creativity (a designer is more creative just because he didn't use the RTP?; many fan games don't use the RTP) or originality (adapting your vision to a pre-written mythos is as original as creating the mythos itself). I think the problem is the lack of skill and commitment.

Do we have a good statistic telling us how many Projects are cancelled before the game is finished? Do we have means to know if fan games are more prone to be abandoned than other games? When you start a fan game you have some "packages" you can use to speed your creation (you have a general geography, a bunch of enemies, a compendium of items...), so maybe this "zone of confort" is able to give the designer a more casual approach... As as he doesn't need to worry with the scripts/formulae he'll need (there are scripts emulating many of the systems used by mainstream games), maybe this will lessen his commitment to effectively learn, adapt and go on.

Or maybe I'm just rambling randomly and there are other factors that I simply ignore at this time...

Bingo, you get it!

My ability to recreate the monster and breeding system from Draqgon Quest Monsters would've been severely hampered if it was up to me to come up all the monsters, skills, and systems myself in addition to all of the original code I had to write.

People also like the atmospheres some games often have. C-Division nails the Mario RPG humor in Starlite Worlds and to a lesser extent, Seven Sages. Does that mean we had to make a Mario game to make a funny one? No. But all the expressions, sound effects and general light-hearted wackiness of the Mario World are at your disposal if want to take advantage of it.



As someone who makes both, and who has been through the creative process in both scenarios, my feet are fine and my brain has not been crippled. Bad games are the only thing that makes the community look bad, fan or not. True, you might get someone's expectations up by using a label, or it might simply separate your game from all the others if the browser is interested in that franchise. You're not doing yourself any favors by avoiding any and all fan games. You seem to make this big assumption that making a fan game inhibits the creator, but in my experience I've only seen it open up a lot of things.

I'm all for fan games if they take the idea and make it their own.

Lets take pokemon for example. Who knows how many people have started a fan game based on that? The concept is awesome and could be fun to play around with.

But why take that and just do what has been done over and over again in the game itself? Why not take that concept and, let say, set in in the medieval erra where you don't have pokeballs, and there is no elite four to face? Take the base concept and strip out other things. Instead of just "lets make a pokemon game where you really can catch them all!"

I'd say, go with it. Make a fan game. Just don't re-make the game.

If you're making a fan game and you somehow mange to remake a game, you're only halfway done at the most. After that, you add your spin. But I don't think I've ever seen anyone actually remake a real game.

When I see a lot of time and creativity invested in a fan game I can't help but wish they'd focused on creating something new and unique, something personal. If you're taking inspiration from a series or game you enjoy and innovating the setting in unique ways until it barely resembles the game you started with, why not just create your own game and be upfront with your influences?

Though in the end I suppose it's about making the game you want to make and having fun with it, whether it's Completely Original Indie Game: The Artsy Fartening or Final Story: Pokemon Hearts Touhou Fantasy Kingdom 3.

I'm not against fangames. I've seen and played really good ones, some of which have permanent spots in my game library. I've also encountered things that have made me think, "I'd rather chew glass than play this." But I do prefer original concepts. I like seeing new ideas, new worlds, and new characters. I would love to see more people show us something from their own imaginations, but I understand that fangames are a comfortable starting point for most.

(Off topic: that indie game title made me bust a gut, Merril. )

I still think some of you are making assumptions about the difference between fan games and non-fan games. Creativity and effort go a long way in both. Original creations fail at being "new and unique" just as some fan games do. And ironically, depending on the franchise your basing your game off of, the fact that it is a fan game of that franchise will make your game look "new and unique" in comparison to the slew fantasy-ish sounding thread-titles it's surrounded by.

This is just my personal philosophy, but I'm against all fan games. I understand that those are pretty strong words, but I'm not saying that all fan games are bad, just that I think they would be better if they weren't fan games. Granted: I've never played a fan game, but let me explain why I'm still against them.

To me, the most important part of a game is its story. Which isn't to say that fan games can't have good stories, I'm sure that some fan games have excellent stories, but any story that's truly worth it's salt can stand by itself. Just because certain characters and settings are iconic doesn't mean that a good writer should use those as a crutch to elevate his/her story. In fact, when a good writer comes up with characters and settings by themselves it gives the story even more power because the writer will know everything there is about his own world. They won't be guessing what someone would do or what something would look like.

Lastly: It's my personal belief that the best game any developer can make is THEIR OWN game. It's important for a game to be accessible, but if a developer tries to please too many people, they won't be making their own game, they'll be making a copy of the game that everyone else wants. I think that the positive aspect of a fan game is a built in audience, but the heavy price for that is everyone is going to have a built in opinion of what they want your game to be. I think that the games reception will suffer because of the expectations the audience will have, and that the ultimate product will be worse off because the developer tried to single-handedly copy a game that was done successfully by 50 people over a 2 year span. A copy of an original will never be as good as the original, and so I feel like on a largely freeware platform like VX, where most of us aren't concerned with revenue and a built in audience, we should be making originals.

Hmm...

Ah, now I see. I'd be lying if i said I cared about the plot twists of Super Mario Galaxy or even the story of the Pokemon or Paper Mario games. But then again, I'm more about the gameplay (and I guess so are those games), but I'm guessing people into Final Fantasty and RPG's like that would care more about the story. Not assuming you like FF.



There are simply too many types of fan games, some with larger scopes than others, some trying to copy franchises that are worlds apart, and some made by anywhere from 1 to 10 man teams. Most people are smart enough to realize that your fan game is simply that, a fan game. They really won't expect it to be on the level of the official game. The highest form of praise for a fan game is "This look likes something [Game Company] would make," and therefore is not the average expectation of someone browsing your game.

Also, some fan game makers don't even try to copy any specific game. They're more like "Give me your universe, and I'll give you my version of a game in it." Others just try to be direct sequels like the Chrono Alter series, which probably is more align with what you're talking about.

I do agree, unless you have ultimate coding skills you should never try to directly copy a game. That game already exists for one, and "porting" it to RPG Maker is more trouble than it's worth. But to my knowledge, not many people actually do that, and if they do, they're making SDK's or something like Poccil of the FF 6 team. That's why, I think, when you make a fan game you should evaluate your strengths and weaknesses, what you can do better and what you can't do at all.

I explained my opinion poorly. What I meant was that I personally just don't understand why someone would find "this looks like something blank would make" as something to strive for. I fully admit that I really don't play fan games, so it could simply be a lack of understanding on my part. If I'm choosing to play a game, I don't want to play "just a fangame", I want to play a game that isn't afraid to stand up and be judged with the big boys, and I don't think any developer wants their game approached as "just a fangame". However, I DEFINITELY agree with what merrill said.

"Though in the end I suppose it's about making the game you want to make and having fun with it, whether it's Completely Original Indie Game: The Artsy Fartening or Final Story: Pokemon Hearts Touhou Fantasy Kingdom 3."

Truer words were never spoken. If you want to make a fan game, then make it. I'm not the one making the game, so my opinion shouldn't affect what you, as the developer, want to do. Frankly, if it's what you want to do, then you have every right to tell me to suck it. I just don't understand why a developer (or group of developers) would want to spend so much time making something that isn't truly their own for free.

As a side note: The paper marios are some of my favorite games! The writing is clever and refreshingly anarchic for Nintendo games. For what it's worth. Thought I would try to make some peace with that.

As a fan game maker myself (SMRPG: Seven Sages & Starlite Worlds) I relish in the fact that I am given a universe to operate in, and then I try to better the original game in the few aspects that I can.

I agree that most fangames are garbage, but I disagree with the people here who think they are garbage because they are fan games. People use fan games as starters mostly. So if they were making an original game instead of a fan game, it would still be garbage.

Good game makers will make good games regardless of whether it's a fan game or not. Bad game makers will do the opposite.

I think I understand where you're coming from, KD648. After all, we all have own opinions but no one would want other to stop making games because of them.

One thing though,

I think you're saying "Why would some-one strive for 'lack of originality'" when you say that, but most people mean "Blank makes awesome games, this looks like something Blank would make."

If the writing in the Paper Mario series is something you like, then you should take a gander at Starlite World's when it's released.

I've been toying with the concept of re-making an actual game. To refresh my memory on how to use RPG Maker XP, i'm reviving an old wish I had to re-create the Final Fantasy IV world in RPG Maker. This will involve re-creating all world maps and enemy mobs, perhaps trying to copy the combat system eventually. The plan was going to however be to set a new story in there with new characters based around the end of the actual game.
However, recently my mind has gone "You're making the monsters, items and maps anyway. Why not include the ORIGINAL game as an option?"
So I am thinking of selecting a translation, which is difficult enough in itself, with that game. There's four or five official translations IIRC.

Anyway, I chose to make a 'fan game' as a game based within an established world simply as it'd be faster to do as I get to make maps without thought to the actual layout or creating the graphics which will still REQUIRE me to think through how they're constructed and script things in different ways, to me it just speeds up my creation process until I get into the storyline part, where i'm sure more errors will present themselves and i'll learn more.
Once i've experimented and learned what I must learn, I may well start an entirely original project.