I know what the mystery behind this is, it's always the guys that's the problem. I have a friend who recently broke up with her boyfriend and u wanna know why? coz her boyfriend got jealous of her friends and he does have friends of his own.

So what r ur opinions about relationship break-ups?

whats your opinion on string?

women get just as jealous as blokes, in my experience more so.

If you break up - be cool - and if your baited don't bite -
universal advice given freely - and i've been around the block and broken enough hearts to know thats all the advice you'll ever need.

then you can always go back for some old flame one off goodness - which is one of the best kinds of sex you can have.

hmmmm nom nom nom

What a topic this is going to be

Congratulations champ. You just solved the most asked question in one's life.



This post is sponsored by Albino Parakeet.

It isn't always the guy's fault, nor is it always the girl's fault. If there is a breakup then both parties are generally at fault in one way or another.
Relationships can be tricky because emotions get involved and it isn't really a science.
The "blame game" always happens after, before, or during a breakup. (And of course it is never our own fault; it's always the other person that we like to blame - as a general fact.)

Relationships are established, then they grow, and then they die - just like everything else that "lives".
It is going to happen eventually so:
- Enjoy it while it lasts.
- Try to maintain it so that it does last, if it is what you want.
- Don't let the other person walk all over you; always express your opinion because lying will only cause issues.
- Be honest in your relationship, or be honest about being dishonest in your relationship.
- Care about the other person.
- If you don't feel comfortable in a relationship after a few weeks, call it off.
- Once you have left a relationship, don't get into another one until you are emotionally sound and can be assured that you are "over it".

To establish longer relationships:
- Don't date someone you don't know; an "acquaintance".
- Don't date over long distances, even if you have spent your childhood with the person; it usually leads to suspicion that the other person is cheating as well as problems with communication and the ability to maintain or build a stronger relationship.


Anyway, there you have some of my thoughts. =P

Erm........thx, I guess



Thx for sharing that with us

well to be fair you come in with a sweeping statement - thats incorrect.

and ask what our opinion is?

i mean a cool thread would be -
what the most bat shit crazy break up you've ever had.

some of mine include,
The one that died in my living room -
the one that turned into a crazy mad bitch self harm stalker
the one that kept giving me blow jobs every time i tried to start the break up conversation
the one that then turned lesbian (though to be fair i was still a teenager at the time and i've turned 3 lesbians so its 3- 1 cock)
the one that cried and cried and cried and cried and cried......and cried
the one who i dumped in public, then proceeded to have a domestic with in public (classy)
the one that is still madly in love with me (went out with her about 10 years ago)

the list goes on.
never really been dumped tho. well except for once sort of.

this woman who i could not fucking stand, ok so she was a fit as fuck primary school teacher, blonde, petite, gravity defying boobs that were more perky than a shrew on polish speed. but she was full of shit. she pretended like she was into art - but was just full of shit and actually didn't get art at all - also she really irritated me.

so we went for a drink and then she did this whole break-up speach...and it was a very funny conversation
her "bla bla bla lets just be friends"
me "ok..." realising i had never been dumped before "hmmm its strange..."
her interupting "that you feel upset?"
me "no.its strange....."
her interupting again "that this happens to you a lot?"
me "no. i've never been dumped before and thats only just now occured to me, hmmm so this is what all those girls felt, can't really understand the crying to be honest whats the big deal...well try anything once, and at least if i'm going to be dumped its by someone as seriously hot as you"

that night i was shaggin her brains out......a week later i kicked her to the curb....and she cried... LOL

Yes, this.


This too. But be careful. If your ex is like mine and you find yourself looking back on certain situations during your relationship and seriously questioning whether or not she was not only dropped on her head as a child, but slammed into a spiked wall by a bulldozer driven by an angry cat with austism, then post-break up sex is probably a bad idea and will only end up with you having to deal with the fallout of someone with a maturity level on par with a screeching, faeces covered child clinging to your every move like you're a fucking deity or something.

I am living this situation right now. Over the last week I've received perhaps 15 phonecalls from her, and when she noticed after about the 8th call that I wasn't going to pick up the phone she cunningly switched her number to private. Luckily, I was smart enough (Read: not retarded enough) to see through her clever ploy and continue to switch my phone off. She also seems to have the notion in her head that everything is absolutely fine between us and occasionally sends me text messages reading "Hey, how are you going?". These are also ignored.

I haven't actually said a single word to her since the end of August last year. I remember this because I was at a friends birthday party and I stopped talking to her right as soon as she said that she was way more mature than I was. The statement was so laughably idiotic that my first thought was "Bitch, you MUST be trolling." But no, she wasn't. She actually is stupid enough to believe that it was my fault that she completely fucked up her own life by being a lying, cheating, drunken and drug addicted whore and barged into mine, proceeding to burrow far inside my head, forcing me to care about her, and even defend her actions. NOPE.
Yes. That's my fault. It's my fault for breaking up with her after she cheated on me with some guy at a party she lied about going to in the first place. And it's my fault she cheated on me. All my fault.

It was a learning experience for sure. I hate that the whole relationship happened. But to an extent, I can't regret it. I'd be ignorant to this kind of thing if it never happened. The only thing I really regret is spending my money on her. I could've used that to buy video games. Video games aren't going to drive every last screed of sanity from my brain and stuff it into their vagina, along with every other dick in the room. Or maybe some would. But I can turn video games off. Permanently.

tl;dr My ex is a cunt and I hate her and I haven't vented in a long time so there you go.

Alright, I'll change it then.

EDIT: Sometimes it's best to be single coz we don't know what kind of girl we'll end up with, but then again, sometimes it's not and single people won't have deal with the shit all the time.

Try not to double post Drkmttr2007, fixed it now though. Use the edit button in future - Sparrowsmith

To my knowledge I have only ever broken up with one person, a friend who I went out with for one day, knew it would never work, and dumped purely so that when I essentially cheated on her four hours later, it wasn't technically cheating. In all fairness, she asked me out dozens of times, and couldn't get the hint This is important because...
All other breakups have been perfectly calm, sometimes by text and sometimes in person, and I've shrugged off everyone of them because I'm a manipulative bastard who ignores people until they dump me

Relationships in general are a peculiar subject for me. I've only ever technically asked out three people. The first, a crush which was rejected. The second, a close friend who liked me back and said no purely because of the first story and because the girl in the first story was right next to her... She had wanted me to ask again for two years but that never happened. Tis life.
The third is recent, another close friend who does like me back, has told me she likes me back, many many times, but has drastic (and understandable) intimacy issues and hence doesn't want a relationship.

So I've never had a crazy breakup cause I've never been with anyone I genuinely care about. I'm 17, I get with strangers at drunken parties...
Oh I've seen fights at parties... Boy have I.
But not relationship break ups, that's a story for another time

However, if I wanted to I could cause the most tremendous and news-worthy breakup in history As I'm currently in the centre of a massive love triangle involving involving three girls, three guys (four including myself) and about seven broken laws...
shhhh don't tell anyone.
I'm tempted to go out with one of them, just because shit would hit the fan. If I do, I'll post the resulting carnage here so you can all get your daily lols.

Here's something interesting though, there is a psychologist who can sit two couples down, hear them talk for 15 minutes about virtually anything, and then predict with 95% accuracy whether the couple will still be together in 15 years.
Almost everyone else (including marriage councilors) scores about 55%.
There is a science to relationships You just have to know what to look for.

That's an experienced person who created a methodology for figuring such things out, it's not actually science or it would be easily done again by other psychologists - and you've mentioned that the others are roughly half as good at the same prediction.

yes we do - Drunk girls!!



This is gonna sound like smarmy wank jizz but....
Love and Hate, same coin. different sides.

Being with a negative, controlling, selfish, undeserving cock gobbler (let me know if i have missed anything) is one of the biggest fuck ups you will ever make in your life.
lol life Trolling - yea thats about right.
The problem stems from the fact that as such fuckups there is an innate vulnerability - I only see this with hindsight - they are out of control.
And there is something attractive about that on a base level. you don't realise it at the time of course.

Also because you are aware of the fact that they are out of control fucktards you are more lenient towards them.
this leads to what i like to call a "negative shit slide dynamic™"
you very quickly become the "responsible one",
yet it doesnt end there.
the fact that you "love her" despite her fuckups is her validation that you Love her / care about her.
Its starts off small and gets bigger as you slide further into the shit, and the further and faster you slide, the harder it is to stop.

Yet just like playing a one armed bandit - the bigger the "forgiveness" the more ensnared you become.
you have already paid out a good deal of "emotional money" and your hoping that with the support you are giving her your gonna hit the jackpot.
and whats the pay-out?
the bullshit falls away and she realises what you are doing for her, the "sacrifices" you have made, she is humbled by this.
seeing you for the awesome dude that you are - undying loyalty and love is yours forever.
she realises how stupid she is, how her actions are pushing you away, and how in reality she has everything to lose.

but it never happens.
the game is rigged.
and this is bad news for her too.
because she becomes reliant on this.
you become the constant - the one thing that she has managed to not fuckup - despite her self destruction behaviour making every effort.

this ultimately (if your lucky) comes to a head.
when a single action makes you take stock on the actual state of affairs.
you realise that you have in essence been a chump to yourself
and you drop her like a rock.

at this point her world implodes.
and there is "drama"

Lossing all contact is the only real remedy - you can meet up with her for a coffee and talk to her, making it clear to her that its done - and your to go your seperate ways - (if you do make sure you have an appointment to keep so you can only be there for an hour) - it will calm her down a little but not completely.

eventually she will give up.

to be honest you probably got off lightly, if there is such a thing in this realm.
my avatar at the moment is actually about the crazy bitch i went out with (years ago), that was worse than yours, but only because i was further down the
"negative shit slide dynamic™"
and to think it all started out so nice - still one thing is to be said about fuckups, and this is not just my opinion - the sex is something else

@sparrow

alls fair in love and war , if you like her then make it happen.

Yeah they go out for a night out and then they cop off with somebody else behind our backs. they don't come back home the same night and they try to deny it

Guy: ''Why didn't u come home last night''
Girl: ''Coz I stayed round my friends house''

Really? that's what girls get up to every night what would u do, if ur girl goes for a night out and tries to deny whatever they did that night?

I disagree. Relationships are far too complex to apply to them a "base method" that would make them work or not. Human relationships as a whole can be very unpredictable and although a good communication between the two parties is mandatory, each case is different. You can find redundant patterns but they're more "guide posts" than anything else.
It's also good to admit that "forever" doesn't exist. Like XMO said, relationships birth, grow and die - there's nothing that can be done about it.

Well since the topic title changed and considering that my previous post was spam (Sparrowsmith, you're so mean to have ignored me), I guess I'll share some experience.

My most "bat shit crazy" breakup is with my former best friend's sister. It's even more fucked up when you know how it started so here we go (and I feel like venting anyway).

So that happened when I was 19 and I had known the girl for, like, 10 years and had a longtime crush on her. Problem, she had a boyfriend, some sort of spanish version of Aldo Maccione - a douchebag. Since he was willing to spend a few weeks of holiday in US (without her) I sent him to a friend of mine who was living there at the time and pretty much hired her to seduce him. It worked like a charm, he dumped his girlfriend and gained 20 kgs in the process. I let you imagine what I did afterwards.
A few months later, I was living with the girl. I was a student the day and had to work the night to cover her monstruous expenses. At that time, I was madly in love and could have done that for very long... if I hadn't discovered that while I did all that, she was partying day and night. With other guys. While being the ONLY girl in their group.
I tried to speak to her and she said that what she did was none of my business and that I was a paranoid prick. Even though she was using my fucking money for those sausage fests. That pissed me so bad that I got back to my old flat (with my uni roommates) and left her with a mountain of bills.
I received various insulting phonecalls from her entire family and I never saw any of them ever again.

I'm still angry when I think about it. Granted, I nuked her boyfriend but like Sultan said:

So I guess it backfired on me in the end heh.

Well, the worst break up I've ever had was either

1. I found out my girlfriend was bisexual, and the chick she was sleeping with was a spoiled little biatch, so I gave 'em both the finger and told them to gtfo! It was at a Target xD
2. My girlfriend broke up with me because she said that she "didn't want a relationship" and went to some other guy in a matter of weeks. I was mad, because it was the second time she had done that, but then it got even WORSE when I found out that she dated yet ANOTHER guy in the middle of us two! And then she comes asking for me to come back and I'm like "NO F IN WAY!"

So, it was their faults, but I'm the one that had a problem with it.

Moved to Serious -

We'd have to know how many couples, what the significance of their predictions was (as in, what should they get right by chance), as there's should be a control group, presumably this study is over 15 years old, so what percentage of couples were actually followed up on.

You don't know that, I never went into detail about the shit she pulled.
You did nail it though, pretty much. I'm glad someone understands

I really hate the generalizations made here about girls.
Like it's only girls that act slutty!
That are clingy!
That are crazy and spendy and full of crap!

Breakups happen to everybody. No need to get vindictive.

I don't know who you're referring to, it could be anyone.
In my defence I wasn't talking about all women.
Just the one I dated.

Edit: In fact I don't think anyone was generalizing. They were all talking about specific people.

LADIES
Problems I've found with women are that some of them get jealous to easy over dumb things. They might not like you going out with your friends and want your main focus to be on them. Women also assume that guys don't have problems of their own because they are meant to be masculine. This is why women express themselves all the time to us expecting us to know what's wrong with them. Also women are generally more flirty than guys, so if there is a small problem in the relationship they are highly likely to flirt with someone else or seek attention elsewhere because they feel they are not getting enough from they're partner. This creates complications in the relationship and can lead to the guy paying less attention because he doesn't want to look jealous or dumping and cheating on her if she hasn't already cheated on him already. Women like to talk, there's no doubt about it so you won't have a good relationship with them if you don't like chatting about stuff, it's probably best to find something you have in common with then when getting into a serious relationship. That way there's always something to talk about. Things I dislike about women, a lot of them actually don't want they're ex boyfriends to move on so they are likely to tell some lies to their friends about what really happened if the relationship fails, especially they're ex's friends so they don't look bad. This is because women generally lie about big things but men lie about small things like how many fights they've been in and won to make themselves look cool or strong. One thing that is incredibly common and also annoying is that a lot of women complain a lot that guys are players. That is true to a small extent, some guys are but this doesn't fit the general population. You'll find that probably 50% of them just want a decent relationship and to date girls till they meet the special one and most of the rest don't know what they want until they get into a relationship. I'm not trying to be sexist but women expect a lot, they can be quite expensive for a guy. Some girls just lead guys on acting like they are interested so they can get stuff from them and use them. Many girls also seem to only be interested in a guy because they're friends are, I mean what the heck is up with that. Why should you like someone because somebody else does. They care a lot about popularity and are likely to choose they're partners based on who they're peer group approve off. This leads to some girls secretly liking someone but they treat them like crap especially when they are with their friends. I'm not saying this applies to all women but a lot of them are and that's a fact.

"I say this because of experience although its a bad experience. I was kind of dating this girl who was using me to buy her drinks and take her places nice when I was out with my friends. She also got my friends to get her some drinks as we usually buy rounds each to save all the wait, she never ever got drinks in return for anyone. Whenever I invited her round or asked if she wanted to spend sometime just together and go out or whatever, she never ever wanted to. She only seem to kiss me whenever it suited her, for example when her mates were around or as some stupid reward because I bought her a drink or did something nice. She kept flirting with other guys in clubs to make me jealous every time we went out. It didn't bother me because I don't get jealous, so she threw cider on me one time and I laughed because I thought I'd just not make a scene. Then she threw more cider on me so I grab her glass off her and put it aside and told her that she is behaving like a child. She walks off and I told my mates to make sure she was OK even though I did nothing wrong. Then she came back apologising saying she thought I was laughing at her, she was pretty controlling and didn't really like me going out unless she was there. She had a thing about being better than me too. She thinks she better than other people when she wasn't really all that, she had a nice pair of melons though. We never slept together and I barely even touched her, whenever I was kissing her I never felt that she was actually enjoying it which stopped me from enjoying kissing her so there was no spark. I know I'm not a pretty boy but generally I get quite a lot of attention from other women especially when I'm in a club so if she wasn't attracted to me she shouldn't have told me she really liked me in the first place. I never properly asked her out because I suspected what she was like but we kind of said that we were together if that makes any sense. I knew she was kind of girl who tell people that we are together when it suits her especially to her mates but when I was out she'd tell people I wasn't with her. We kind of stopped acting like we were together so she kept trying really hard to make me more jealous, she wanted to go out just together for a walk one night and told me how she had a nice time out with one of my closest friends. She then started telling him that I didn't like him as a friend. She stirred a lot of things to try and make me lose my friends although it didn't work. I've had a bad experience of women in the past so this could reflect the way I see things. I think the only reason she was ever interested in me was because one of her friends told her I was quite attractive because she likes black people in general." (I'm black)
I could go on forever but that would go off topic. Basically I have seen women mess around with guys. Generally women don't ask guys out and its the opposite way round most of the time because of socialisation. All of these things I've said above are experiences myself and my friends have had. I never take sides when my friends split up but listen to both sides of story and draw up a conclusion to myself of what happened.

GUYS
Guys on the other hand aren't perfect either. Like women, we want to go out and have fun much on same terms as them. They are also much less complicated. When guys get a girlfriend, they usually stop hanging around with their mates as much and give most of their time to their girlfriends. Also we are likely to introduce and make our girlfriend part of our peer group. This can create complications after break ups because guys usually don't want to be near their ex girlfriend after they split up. I think this is heavily based on their pride. Also referring to what I said before, because the girls might try and turn their friends against them. Some guys do however play girls around, the dumb ones. When they have a stable relationship they may text some other interest they have because they are bored. I've seen this happen as my friend as done this a few times to other women before. I also think this is usually because they want to have a backup plan in case something happens in their relationship or so that they won't be single. Guys can sometimes be bad at listening so it's difficult for them to know what's up with their girlfriend. Some guys only want a girlfriend for sex and because they are attractive to tell and brag to all of their friends about it. They also aren't very good at giving attention to their partner and noticing problems. Guys also find it hard to work on a relationship than women do. When they spot trouble they are likely to run away from it rather than try to work things out. The good thing is a lot of guys are more likely to date girls their peers don't approve off. Guys care less about what people think but only to an extent. Plenty of my friends are dating some women who I would regard as unattractive but some of them have good personalities. The problem with a lot of men is that they think they should be in control of their relationship and take charge, this shouldn't be the case as a relationship should work both ways. I can't think about much else to say about guys probably because I am one and its hard for someone to spot their own flaws. After all this doesn't apply to all guys...

Summary
In the end I think its the way were are socialised and a lack of traditional values have made society more individualistic. People care more about themselves than others because for example marriage is less valued due to secularisation, new laws and a decline in traditional social norms. These could be reasons why people value relationships less as there has been a decline in what was once the dominant nuclear family.
Never the less, people have more freedom than in past such as women who were oppressed for most of the industrial revolution which I'm totally for.

Obsorber, regardless of what I agree with in your post I applaud you for typing up all of that and expressing your opinions so well. =]

Moving right along...


I have had similar experiences with a woman I used to date. She was very controlling and considered herself smarter than anyone else (superiority complex), and she tried to be the centre of everyone's attention and affection (even other guys, whilst I was standing there).
At first I thought it was cool that she bragged about me in front of other guys, but it became annoying when most of my friends began to stop hanging around because she was always there trying to make it a big deal that I was her boyfriend.
I was never attracted to her physically, but I could relate to her when she actually stopped pretending for other people. (This only happened when we had private conversations "on the level".)
After some time I figured it would be best to discontinue our relationship and told her that it wasn't working out and that I needed to focus on other things. She cried some crocodile tears and complained about me to her mum.
Shortly thereafter she contacted almost every girl I knew telling them how I had ruined her life and such. Most of the girls I knew were glad that she broke up with me and continued to hang out with me, knowing that she was lying about me being her "worst problem ever".
I never had sex with her, and the only touching we ever did was when we held hands (because she would cling to me everywhere we went, I couldn't get away from her; if I went anywhere she had to be there as well) and we kissed on occasion (to my disgust).
There was only one girl who was a friend of mine that believed all of my ex-girlfriend's lies and she completely ignores me now (won't even acknowledge me when we see each other at college, or wherever). Sad, but true. =\

Anyway, I was glad to be out of that relationship. I only stuck around for so long because I'm very patient and sincerely wanted to make things work because I felt sorry for her and her mum (who has cancer).
Thankfully I didn't say "no more Mr. Nice Guy", instead I found my current girlfriend who is much more humble, but very sharp and witty. She has her quirks, but I love her for them. =]

She actually cares and is sincere and honest with me.
So, as a note to you men and women: find the right one and don't stick to a relationship that you know isn't going to work. (Unless you are only looking for sex; in which case you should be honest about that with your partner.)

Okay, so maybe girls are a bit snobby and snotty and disgusting...
But boys are almost worse. They're pigs, most of the time, heaping all the food onto their plate, and "forgetful," especially on valentines day and your birthday. ("Oh! Today's your birthday? Crap! Oh well, I'll get you a present next year.")
On superbowl? Forget the fact that you exist, girls. You were born to fetch beer.

You ran into some bad experiences then, lol.
I'm a guy and I don't drink beer or demand anything from my girlfriend.
I'm also extremely polite and have excellent etiquette.
I may be forgetful, but that's because I have three paying jobs and I also volunteer on a few forums, such as this one.
However, I have never forgotten my girlfriend's birthday, or our anniversary, nor would I forget Valentine's Day (though my family doesn't celebrate it, or any other holiday or birthday).

Aside from that... I hate sports, lol. =]

Weren't you just complaining about how people were generalizing girls? Now you do it to guys...
I'm a guy. I admit that I am a pig, but hell no am I forgetful. I have a horrible short-term memory but a damn good long-term memory. And football? I could care less about it.

I think some girls generalise guys too much because of the media. They stereotype how guys are because the media portrays them as forgetful, uncaring, being too masculine and not engaging in domestic tasks, lazy and as players. When girls watch romantic comedies, there are a lot of these guys around apart from the rare exceptional dream boy who is perfect in the film.

The problem with some girls is that they want perfection which is natural but we are all human so that is practically impossible. Guys on the other hand are actually more willing to put up with less perfection. Watch general "rom coms" films where the boys are dating girls that may be hot but have a disgusting personality. Also "rom coms" are sometimes likely to make a guy end up with someone who isn't super hot, generally described as average or sometimes even ugly because they have a decent personality. Take the black guy in "She's the man" who ends up with that crazy girl. Also "Shallow Hal" that film explains it all. This is common and could be reason why guys don't care too much because they just want someone attractive but can easily change their attitudes depending on personality.

I believe that there is a theory of romantic attraction out there...

Don't get me wrong, I'm not generalizing girls but I'm simple mentioning how they are and can be generalised.

Hmmm, completely forgot about this topic... Sorry.


and



I recommend reading a book called Blink. It's all about intuition and snap decisions.
Everything you need is right here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thin-slicing
In the blink section you will find a reference to John Gottman, the marital expert who can predict with 95% certainty whether a couple will be together in 15 years just by observing them for an hour. Strangely enough, if he observes them for two hours then the statistic is lowered.
95% is not 'guide post' it's a significant correlation.

Ultimately thin slicing is a subconscious and 'flow' response to situations. So long as you are in your element, then you can extrapolate from virtually nothing. There is a science to it, you just have to be trained in that science.
Take tasting as an example.
Take two glasses of coke and a glass of pepsi, switch them around, and then accurately guess which is which purely through taste. It's much harder than you might think. However, taste experts could tell you the factory the drinks came from.
If you know your senses, then you can thin slice consciously. If you don't, then it's subconscious. Most people feel a tug if a relationship is right, but the accuracy is diminished because:
1- they're personally involved
2- they've been near the other person for more than an hour

anyway, I'm delving off topic. There is a science, it's just very little explored.


Sorry. It was still in general back then and I was feeling lenient enough... I'm not active enough to punish every little gag. I'll try to scorn you more in future


The way I see relationships, take a lesson from the movies. It has to be unrequited. Prove your love all you need to, but your love should never be demanded, and you should never have to lie.
That is.. True love.
all other loves, lusts, and one night stands come under the 'Lie' part of love.

Oh, one more thing:

Not as easy as that my friend We've made a casual habit of sticking our tongues down other peoples' throats, partly out of spite and partly just because it's fun. It'll probably escalate into something emotionally harming... Maybe physically harming too... She is a mean drunk...
Meh, like I said. Too young to genuinely care about relationships.

Nope. Happens that I know of Gottman's work and I still stand by I said. You have a lot of factors to take into account and especially on a period of 15 years, apply this to your case won't help at all.
I'd go as far as saying that caring about that is pretty useless. It's just extra stress.

EDIT: Sorry for the off-topicness. I won't expand further because of that.

Regarding this predicting couples -



So yes, complete nonsense. You cannot predict if a couple are going to last after an hour.
what if they had an argument an hour before?

anyway - this I feel is off-topic, because we are going into a discussion about a specific research method.

---------------------------------------
I don't want to cut into sparrow specifically, but i think that what he said here nicely sums up some of the other posts and ideas.



This I believe is one of the biggest reasons for strife between couples.
the Movies - THEY ARE NOT REAL

being in a loving relationship means at times being miserable, bored, and angry.
the key is that even when you are in a down phase, you still recognise that you have a beautiful thing.
This "Disney" idea is the first one you need to kick into touch if you want to be happy.



and If it is true Love, then it should always be demanded.
Because that is the constant - things may be good or bad - but as long as there is love and romance - lets face the music and dance.
And regardless of what the films say.
you can't really prove that you love someone.
that's why a relationship is built around trust.

And no, you shouldn't have to lie.
THAT is crucial - you should each be happy within your own established boundaries -
but having said that - PARANOIA has no place in a healthy relationship.

people are mostly paranoid because Hollywood and the media has told them to be jealous and angry and upset.
If your girlfriend/boyfriend go's out clubbing and kisses someone else.

why is that bad?
the Aussies have a VERY healthy attitude towards this, they call it a "pash" and it's recognised as a heat of the moment bit of frivolity and fun.
Yet most, would see this as grounds for an argument or worse still break-up.

why for what?
It was just a ?drunken? kiss - does it mean that she does not love you?
Does it mean you don't love her?
just because you were flirting with another girl?

what if it goes to the "extreme" what if she sleeps with someone else?
that's awful right?
or is it?
chances are she wasn't a virgin when you met her.
and you don't own her -

If your missus goes out and stays with a friend, comes back at 8 the next day
OR
your missus meets some guy, and has sex with him, then comes back the next day.

what difference is it to you?
none - provided she is sensible - you wouldn't know unless she told you and found out.

then you would get upset right?
This is because when it comes to infidelity -
It's not the act itself - but rather the deception that goes with it that people find upsetting.

which comes back to honesty. i.e. you shouldn't lie.

So if I go out to a club, and i kiss another girl,
Do I feel guilty?
No
Does my missus know that when i go out from time to time I find myself kissing other girls, dancing with them in clubs etc.?
Yes
does it mean i love her ANY less?
no

I'm not really an advocate for "open Relationships", as people tend to go out of their way to pull - and your having sex with someone else on a regular basis -
but if something pretty falls into your lap - then why deny yourself the happiness?
If its a passing bit of fun in the moment - where is the harm?

There is none -
Thus people i feel need to check reality and look at things as they really are.

Now my missus happens to be of the opinion that she is not interested in kissing other people or sleeping with them.
(though she has a habit of pulling hot girls when she is drunk - something i am only too happy to encourage )
but she understands that sometimes when i go out, I AM - and I will.
we talked about these things in a calm manner, and we understand each other.

the key again is to being honest.
While i don't sleep with other girls, my missus knows in no uncertain terms that at some point between now and when i am 50 -
I will, probably sleep with 2 or 3 other people.
And thats fine - It's also something every man does - except they bullshit about it and make promises they know they wont / can't keep.

to be honest for me these base physical things are exactly that - base and physical.
If my missus sexed someone else, i wouldn't really be that bothered, as long as it was a one off and done safely.
but if she so much as made him a cup of tea - let alone breakfast in the morning - i would be pissed.

because those are wife duties - and that is something i am not willing to share (yes i live in the 50's)

some people dont understand,
they think my missus is weak - or has low self confidence - etc. (until they get to know her)
but that could not be further from the truth,
she is incredibly strong, knows how to get her way, and doesn't take shit.
she is also Ridiculously hot, and i don't mean to brag - but she really is a AAA1-FOX
and a total domestic goddess to boot!
which is great because i hate cleaning, shopping, cooking etc.

and despite what you may think - the fact that i fool around with other girls, and do nothing in terms of domestic chores, - she wears the trousers

and the key to our happiness - HONESTY -
and that means being honest with yourself too.
If you are out at a party and a really pretty girl comes over and starts dancing with you - If you are going to want to dance with her - then you had better make that known. - otherwise you will be put in to a situation where you have to chose between yourself and your missus - and THAT - leads to negative vibes.


bah i waffle

irrelevant.

Unlike in the movies, that you criticize so dearly and I want to make a point of separating good and bad movies here because you straw manned my argument, arguments do not hold true for an entire hour. I have literally just walked home with a friend who's recently had an argument with her boyfriend. She was on the phone to him and she was very broken up, and yet when they said goodbye her mood changed entirely, you would never have guessed they'd been arguing.
It continues.
We talk, and she seems quite mad, but mention any good times and she goes off in a world of her own.
Gottman's experiments registered several emotions every second. The fact we can go through the 20+ emotions recognized in less than ten seconds is an impressive thing, and to say an argument earlier could influence all of those emotions substantially is hardly relating to the actual predictions involved.

Gottman also studied 677 couples before making his predictions on the 56 couples. Let's not forget, he didn't get 100% accuracy, so it cannot be an easy feat. However, he scored higher than someone not involved in the study, which makes it a difficult enough feat that he has shown that there is a science to it.
If a scientist performed abiogenesis in a lab, and brought one simple cell into the world, it would be proof that abiogenesis is possible. In the same way, Gottman has proved that it is possible to make predictions of couples, even if the results so far are quite slim.
Most importantly, those who are predicted to be 'likely for divorce' can in fact be saved just by being told what harms a relationship.

I'm actually derailing the topic now, unless the OP would rather have this be a 'general relationship' topic. However, there is clearly an interest in discussing relationships, or at least Gottman's work, so perhaps a topic is necessary?

All in all, I'm tired of people who complain that relationships are stabs in the dark. They're not. The five most aggressive people I know (Showing signs of contempt, criticism, stonewalling and defensiveness) are also the five people I know with the shortest (or most chaotic) relationships. As predicted by Gottman.
Also, open relationships are bound for disaster. Enjoy while it lasts.

well done at failing to read sparrow.

re gottman


re open relationships




you wish - those who have less than half of what i have consider themselves lucky.

but again - i am in agreement with Kread-ex

a relationship is too complex and intricate thing for someone outside it to understand the nuances between two people.
and to be honest the 90% prediction was only for 4/6 years.

thats not exactly pushing the boat out is it. - considering as well that he is only doing this with already married couples.
infact i would argue that it is no higher than a person of average inteligence with average social skills can ascertain.

but in yourself you can know.

anyway - your experience of female relationships is clearly somewhat basic. but thats to be expected for a lad with so little experience.

but i think your a bit of a twat for passing a snap judgement. especially on an incorrect assumption.

honesty and understanding.
understanding for who you are - not what bullshit you're told you should be.

either pretty girls don't try to dance with you, or you have no interest in it.
but if they do, and thats fun. then Go right ahead and promise your partner you'll never do that - and watch as little by little, year after year one of two things will happen -
1. you will break that promise
2. you will resent that promise - and by proxy the person who holds you to it.

the idea is to find someone who loves you for YOU - not for some bullshit you present to the world.
It's funny whenever we watch something about relationships,
or read an article about it.
we laugh.

"i am what i am, but i give all that i am to you"
have someone except that without clauses or bullshit - you've got something that will last.

equally important is where you are in life, there is no point settling down unles you find someone who is
a. mega awesome
b. wanting to do the same.

Just gonna ignore the blatant insults, they don't really accomplish much.


except no one else made those predictions as accurately as he did. If what he did was so average then why have multiple psychological studies mimicked his approaches? If what he did was so fruitless then why is it so popular?
You're making such a blatant mistake of reasoning that it's painful. You are sticking to your guns, you're not taking in new information. You have completely straw manned the opposing side (as you often do) into being unreasonable. In your head I might as well being saying that chicken feed makes you immortal, because what you're reading and what I've written are completely different.

You're not willing to accept that a marriage, relationship, or friendship can be predicted. You're not prepared to believe there is a science to communication.
Comedians often use punch-lines with K sounds because it makes them smile, which in turn can influence their audiences reactions.
Today, this very day, I simply thought about bringing up a topic and (through suggestion) I made the other person in the conversation bring it up. They had no idea why they brought it up when I asked them. I made my friend open up about a very serious problem we were having just by identifying the problem myself, and then refusing to act in that way. When I refused to act in that way, she subconsciously focused on it and realised the problem. She then resolved to stop acting that way herself.
On reflection this was a feet I had good reason to be proud of, but ruined it by gloating on the spot (even quoting how I got the idea in the first place) which made the problem worse again. However, in theory I manipulated someone else's thoughts simply by recognizing patterns in my own actions.
Now Gottman used devices to measure patterns in other people, and used them to make predictions based on those patterns being persistent. Since me and this friend were communicating so poorly for months without noticing, it stands to reason that a married couple could go years without realising the problem, so the predictions are more reliable than you may think. Almost all of our behavior is based on patterns.



So, with decades of relationships under your belt, and a few years under mine, we have reached... The exact same conclusion.
I actually realised this before I ever even kissed someone... So umm... Bravo?
To this day I have lectured seven of my friends on how they shouldn't lie to their loved ones, because lying makes them love what you say you are, and not what you are. If they find out they're loving a lie, it damages them. If they don't, then it damages you because you're expected to act different to how you are.
Absolute honesty and comfort with the other person are necessary.

I admire that you can have an open relationship of sorts, but people often hide their true intentions/feelings, and it just doesn't seem a fair trade. Forgive me for telling you to be weary of having your cake and eating it too.


So don't shoot me down so quick. I agree with you about absolute honesty, but there are times when we can't see the forest for the trees. People always have ulterior motives, even if they aren't aware of them.

Bat shit crazy breakups are caused when people have an image of the other person, and it clouds what is actually there.

I'd say the most important thing to remember about people though, is that they change. More important still, when someone fears you are changing, they are much more likely to change. Don't let my age fool you Sultan, I know people.

I'm sure you can create broad rules, just like newton did.

and it is an achievement in itself to put what is obvious into objective parlance - as newton did.

to say that we can predict human relationships, would indicate that we understand human behaviour.
and sure we do to a point - but like so many other things - the more we know, the more things we discover we don't know - if that makes any sense.

the fact that an inter-cultural couple would snare almost all of his tests and predictions is proof of that.

you know when i was around your age i was travelling and met a beautiful Russian girl - at first we were flirting and stuff -
one day we were messing around when she playfully pushed me, so i playfully pushed her back.

she looked at me as if i had just murdered her dog, and stormed off. REALLY upset and angry.
her friends looked at me like i was shit.
i said "Whaaat?"

they explained - in that culture a good man does not lay a hand on a woman even as a joke, and it's something to do with the flirting, she will push you, but your not supposed to push her back.

why do i bring this up - because in many places, a bit of silly "playfighting" can be used as flirting.
yet in some it's very different.

thus it is too simple to say - i studied x amount of american couples, here is my conclusion about worldwide humanity.
SOME of the most stable and loving marriages that exists are arranged marriages.
(yes the media loves to talk about when it goes wrong - but not when it goes right)

If you put this couple who had just met, infront of this professor 1 day after their marriage - he would conclude that they would not last.
because they have the body language of strangers.
He would be wrong.

Yes you can manipulate people - it's easy for those of social aptitude to do -
and i fully encourage you to bring your talents to the dark side, and sex up as many girls as you can while you are young.
Get a job in sales where you will get paid a lot of money to do just that.

I'm not saying be a mug, I've never lied to get into a girls nickers,

you clearly have potential, but you must find yourself.
something a man in your position would be hard pressed to do.
you will see (i think) that there is a frequency that exists,
Tune yourself into it and anyone you want, is yours with 0 effort.

and what - it makes me a mysoginist?
a wanker? a cunt?
a "man slag?"

well fuck that - thats hater talk.
Because i will tell you something now.

That is what will bring you
a. carnal pleasure in the short term
b. ultimate happyness in the long run.

because, if you know, you have what it takes to take anyone you want towards you.
you wont except anything but the best.

it's like i say.
"why go for personality over looks, when you can have personality AND looks!!"

you meet a hot girl, great sense of humour, personality meshes amazingly with you, but she has an annoying habit,

you'll have the balls to kick her to the curb,
why?
because somewhere out there your going to meet a girl who is super hot, has a great sense of humour, a personality that meshes perfectly with yours AND no annoying habits.
AND - see's you as their perfect mesh aswell.

If you can have the confidence in yourself to throw away something that is 97% perfect, because you want something that is 100% perfect.
then you will find her.....and THAT -

will bring you to the king land of happiness - the mecca of connection.

most dont have the balls, most make excuses.
If you are walking down the high street, and you see a girl better looking than your girl, then you've settled for 2nd best
if you are in a bar, and you meet a girl funnier than your girl, youve settled for 2nd best.
etc. etc. etc.

perfection is out there.
if you have the balls to be relentless in it's pursuit - you will find it.

and then - like me - you will laugh at people who make predictions on relationships.
because - 90% of people make do with a 90% match.
if that.

If you've got what it takes - Go for gold.

{edit]
and the magic key is oh so simple -

LOVE YOURSELF

but first, you have to know yourself, otherwise its just ego talking.

Gottam didn't measure body language... He measured sweat, heart rate, tone of voice, facial expressions, etc etc. You really haven't looked into it have you?

in many situations, the less we know, the better
We can often extrapolate from the smallest pieces of data (thin slicing) better than we can from large quantities of data, which add too many variables to the equation. When cars are rated on four key points of performance, most of a sample group can pick out the best car. When cars are rated on twelve points, the group don't know what to look for.
Less is, often, more.
Another example is the chart that doctors use in hospitals over crowded with patients. The doctors, with all their training, taking into account hundreds of factors (do they smoke, do they drink, how old are they) fail to see which is most important, and could often not place patients with heart problems in the correct order of urgency. One doctor comes along and plugs all the variables into a machine, takes the most important ones, and creates a chart. Doctors scoff at it at first, but the chart is substantially more effective at guessing the risk of a heart attack than a fully qualified doctor (over blown with variables) is.
Too much knowledge, not enough judgement.
The chart just asks about four questions, and works out the risk from there. (I'll cite it if necessary)

We only need to know the most important things to be effective.
Gottam himself dismisses most of his data, claiming that only the 'four horsemen of the apocalypse' are especially significant. The four horsemen being (for relationships) Contempt, Criticism, Stonewalling, Defensiveness. And of these one need only focus most on contempt.
Contempt alone is more accurate than the other three, and the horsemen together are more accurate than all of the other emotions registering.

When he can tell with 94% accuracy, it's ridiculous to say that his findings mean nothing.

Another example of less is more: Millennium Challenge 2002, look it up.
One side, Blue Team, equipped with enough technology to make the war game transparent. The enemy could barely breathe without being seen.
The other side, Red Team, equipped with barely any data at all.
In two days Red Team won.
Blue Team had all this data, but it stalled them. It held them back. Every action had to be recorded, reported, relayed back, transmitted, calculated, deliberated, collaborated, and then another action had to be worked out from this.
Red Team just had its intuition. Not much communication, so every soldier worked for themselves, and they were well trained enough to pull together.

History is riddled with battles, events, and mysteries surrounding two opposing sides. One side has intuition, the other is drowning in its own knowledge, and ultimately neither wins any more than the other.
It's how you apply what you have, not what you have. - I'll take a wild guess and say you definitely agree with this.
We don't need wealths of information on human behavior, we just need to do our best with what we've got.

As for perfection, I don't believe in it. What works on one face doesn't necessarily work on another. People as a whole, not as parts.

In a way your right - Information overload - can lead to reaction delay, hesitation and confusion.

However if a system or person is able process information and extract variables "on the fly" - and thus will not succumb to "information overload" then the more information the better.

the example with the car stats - that works - but what if the people you are asking are out and out petrol heads?
they live and breathe cars - 12 stats - is not information overload - thus they will be able to easily tell you which is definitely the best car,
where as with 4 stats they can only give you a "probably"

With the military exercise, thats more a case of asymmetrical vs industrialised warfare - however times have moved on from then.
were the games repeated, blue team would certainly win.
as surveillance assets have increased the amount of information entering the int.cycle so to has the increasing use of computers and automation
Prevent a situation of information overload. Not only that but with the advancment of encrypted data nets the reaction time of industrialised assets is only getting harder and faster -
The germans are currently rolling out a system where by a recon asset tags a target with a laser range finder. Using GPS and electronic compass readings, the network knows exactly where the target is and how it is moving - computers then take wind readings from several sources to determine the exact wind and weather conditions at that moment - the computer also calculates how long the artillary shell will take to get there and where the vehicle will be at that time - an automated artillary unit such as The Archer fires off a shell within a second or 2.

anyway guns are boring - but just wanted to highlight - that as long as you can process and use the data on the fly - and avoid information overload - then the more information the better.

going back to Gottman -
to say contempt is a sign that a relationship is on the rocks -
is a bit like saying that one of the way's to tell if your house is on fire is if there is an ERIF truck outside and firemen are spraying it with water.
(Izzard ftw)
because by then the relationship is ALREADY in the shit -
thus its more about measuring that which already exists than making a prediction.
never mind the success of a marriage - take 100 couples 2 months into their relationship and tell me which will make it to the wedding day with 90% accuracy after only one hour - THEN your making a prediction.

the others however - i think can easily be misread.
if my missus if pulling me up on something - one of my stock phrases is
"no no no, I don't know what your talking about, I don't remember that happening at all. And if I don't remember, then as far as i am concerned it didn't happen.So then you must be making stories to try and make your point, which i might add is clearly wrong"

sounds defensive eh. - yet my lady understands what i actually mean is
"yes darling, your right darling, your always right darling"

Alot of what we call intuition or "gut feeling"
is infact due to our subconscious mind crunching the numbers like a bitch.
when I cycle through traffic i do so like a hot knife in butter.
Traffic management.
and i dont even think about it - i just let it flow -
my mind wanders off and i think about random things, yet i am fully aware of everything the traffic is doing, with immense amounts of detail at LEAST 50 meters ahead and 20 behind.
and that involves a lot of calculations,
on 2 lanes of traffic your taking in and processing the speed, direction, and motive of say 30 vehicles on average.
with that information you are able to extrapolate where the gaps are now, and where they will be.
then you factor in pedestrians, road conditions, surfaces and architecture
and its all done real time - on the fly - able to react to a change in situation instantly.

now i have some hefty experience on 2 wheels - so i am about as good at this as you can get.
but because i take in MORE information than other pedalists -
I move faster and more efficiently than them.

YES - it's how you apply what you have
but equally - the more you can apply - the better

You're quite right, but your average person is equally as accurate with 4 stats as a petrol head is with 12 stats, so why even consult the petrol head? People are fully capable of ordering jams based on taste, but only a taste expert can tell you why. People can't even tell coke from pepsi in a triangle taste, and yet they naturally prefer one to the other.
People can decide on factors they are unaware of, but not on factors they are aware of. For that you have to be an expert.
However, experts in medicine still fail to be as reliable as the chart. No one can process over two dozen factors.

It was the most expensive war game of history, in 2002. The systems were set up in place so that war was TRANSPARENT for blue team. Red team won not because the enemy didn't know enough, they won because the enemy knew too much. It was a simulation, turned out to be a simulation of the Iraq war... And we all know how well that is going.
America (blue team) lost, because they thought all they needed was information. Red team won by being unorthodox, by DOWNGRADING their activities so they went off the grid completely. Blue team thought they were about to win, and even sent out terms of surrender, before they fired a single bullet. Blue team thought they were winning seconds before 20,000 soldiers died (being a simulation, this didn't actually happen).
Red team won because they had strategy over information. It's not numbers that wins a war, and it isn't technology. History has shown us that LEADERS win a war, and they are more often victorious when they teach their soldiers how to lead themselves.
I don't advocate warfare, but I respect the mind's of great soldiers.

And one target goes down. Meanwhile, red team with 0 information took down 20,000...

Actually there is a ration used, and the ratio determines the likelihood of the marriage lasting. All relationships show a degree of contempt, it's how much contempt that works it out.
Also, I realize that there isn't enough evidence to confirm the theory, all I'm saying is that there is a relation between communication and relationships. There is enough evidence to suggest a correlation between registered emotions and length of relationships.

again, words have nothing to do with it. He didn't register language, he registered emotion. You can't make your palms sweat, you can't force your heart to beat faster, slower, or anything like that. Don't assume that your relationship is so special that none of the 700 couples he brought in had similar conversation traits. I'm two way with all my friends, all of them. I either compliment them beyond reason or insult them to death. It's fun, it's conversation, and even they know I'm just kidding.
Anyone watching knows we're just kidding.
I walk into art shops with my best friend and shout, "I mean, three at once! You're such a fucking whore!" and then we laugh for the rest of the trip round.
BUT no matter what I say, or how I act, Gottman's readings wouldn't say I was offended or being offensive at all.

This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. It's called Thin Slicing.
However, like you said, you can train your subconscious.
Auto-heads, tasters, art critics, they know good from bad in the blink of an eye. Hence the book that documents them all, Blink.

I'm afraid i have to disagree with you almost entirely.

starters cars.

which is the better racing car?

car 1:
Engine: 8.0 litre W16, 64v DOHC quad-turbocharged petrol engine
Top speed: 253.81 mph
0-60: 2.5 seconds
Cost: £1,065,000

car 2:
Engine: 3.0 litre Supercharged Honda K20A1
Top speed: 155 mph
0-60: 2.9 seconds
Cost: £100,000

the answer - car 2 - which As of 23rd January 2011, set the lap record around the Top Gear test track, with a time of 1:15.1, making it the fastest road-legal car to go around the track.

To say that someone who knows nothing about cars can make as accurate a decision as an expert in that field - is i'm afraid to say nonsense.
because a lay person would say car 1. it has a bigger engine, its much faster, better acceleration and it costs 10 times as much.

however a petrol head would instantly see that these stats belong to the Bugatti Veyron and Arial Atom 500 - and would know that as a race car. the Atom is in a league of it's own.

thus your premise that "expert knowledge" is useless - and of no value - has been proven by this example to be wrong.

moving on.

to the military exercise, AGAIN - this was done 10 years ago!
what it demonstrated was that the route from - collector - analyst - decision maker - combat mission - was not good enough.
with modern processes in place (and don't be foolish enough to think the army just sat on its hands for 10 years)
If the war games were repeated here is what would happen.
1, team blue have an ARTEMIS which uses Hyperspectral sensors -


and because


2. within 10 minutes the commander of blue team knows exactly where red teams cruise missiles are - this is given as a priority one target - 5-10 minutes later (20-25 minutes into the war games) Red team has no cruise missiles.

---the small boat attack,
3 Apache gunships are dispatched - a recon plane with similar technology is able to detect which boats are carrying explosives - this information along with their position, is relayed via secure network - to the apache pilots,
the computer on board the Apache designates these targets to the pilot, through his eye piece the pilot sees that every boat that is carrying explosives is highlighted to him. the systems on board the apache do not need to keep an eye on all of the targets at once - because this information is passed to them - having already been processed - sometimes by computers on the other side of the world.

not one of the small boats manages to sink a ship.

Once you get to a point where you have more information than you can instantly process, you start to creep towards information overload.
however as long as you are within the limits of what you can process - THE MORE INFORMATION THE BETTER.

I could site about half of The art of War - to this example but i wont.

knowledge is power.

to be honest i don't buy into thin slicing at all.
yes the subconsious mind - being the super achiever - will process information without you being aware of it - however.
thin slicing includes the idea that less information is more - when this is not the case.

more information is more - however you need to be able to process that information. - these snap judgments that experts come to are not based on a lack of information - but rather a wealth of experience.
with more experience the mind is able to process and analyse the information faster and better - your brain will actually HARD WIRE settings and thought patterns - this means that more information relevant to that field can be processed.

because these thought patterns are hard wired into the brain - they do not require active thought. they DO however require information.
now it may well be possible that as an expert these signals are only picked up by our subconscious mind -

so even though the "blink" decision was made using 25 separate pieces of information - the expert is only aware of seeing 4 bits of information

when i cycle i do not THIN-SLICE
i fat slice - i consciously absorb as much information as i can -
the key is that i have the ability hard wired into my brain to be able to process this vast amount of data.

the same way that an electronics expert can take one look at a complex circuit and almost instantly say - thats wrong/broken.
its because he is able to process more information. more efficiently.

oh and finally - i don't hold a single grain of contempt for my missus.
so thats wrong for a start

bah

Ok then. If you wish to once again move from experiments, psychology, tested tactics, expert opinions and discussion into opinion, then you are welcome to.
If you believe you fat slice, then believe that.
it's not like I can change your opinion no matter how hard I try.

Commander of Red Team, Paul K.Van Riper is quoted as having a library filled with strategies of warfare. He is quite possibly one of the greatest strategic minds in existence. He has read the art of war, obviously, and fully endorses thin slicing. He believes he won the war game because he had the advantage of being able to judge rather than know. The game WAS re-run and blue team won, but only because they demanded that red team stick to conventional warfare and not 'think outside the box'.
Riper won because he didn't play ball. Blue team did practically what you said. The game was set up BEYOND tech at the time, the war was transparent. This is large scale warfare, not a single conflict. Blue team destroyed their logistics, their communication, everything instantly. But red team improvised on the spot and overcame every single challenge, something blue team didn't think would happen.

You and Riper in the war room. You have everything, he has nothing, he will win. Why? Because you think you're going to win. He knows exactly what you're capable of, so he avoids it.
If I know you can see in the dark, then I'll fight in the light.
If I know you can see me through walls, then I'll fight in the open.
If I know you can track me a million miles away, then I'll stay in eye shot.

Let's not forget vietnam, 'we can't lose'
Let's not forget Iraq 'victory speech'

The U.S claims to be undefeated when it should be learning from its defeats. This is Riper's own philosophy.
Soldiers>Technology

As for your example with the cars, its flawed. You gave really bad information.
You fat sliced.
You only need three bits of information:
1 - The Track (or type of track)
2 - The Torque
3 - The Driver

Because you supposed a race, not a 'best car'. Bugatti wins drag hands down.
See how you gave the wrong information?

Thin slicing relies on only the best information being presented, or only the most important evidence being presented.
If I'm an economist, I only need to know the MPG of my car to make a decision. If I care about cost as well, then I'll factor in price. If I need a car with a certain amount of seats, I'll factor that it.
I don't need to know torque for this equation, in fact, bringing in torque might make me value the cost less, and so I buy a car with more torque than I need for a price that's higher than I wanted to pay.
We only need what is absolutely necessary, all other is information is trivial.

I digress.

SO...alow me to retort...(hells we may as well pm this for all the other people getting involved..... )

in relation to "Red Team" -

again - all red team did was use asymmetrical warfare tactics - there is nothing new there.
the west has been engaged in an asymmetrical war for some time now,
tactics and technologies have evolved.

you say oh well we will fight in the light, and in open land.
This is the exact area that industrialised forces excell in.
the domination of the "country side" is in the industrialised hands.

so you can't say, we will fight in the light and the open. because that is exactly when you ( as an insurgent) are at a complete and total disadvantage.
in the light and open you are nothing but cannon fodder to the more advanced army.

bah - there shall be double postings to answer the rest.

also you say what i say is i say opinion.

it be fact

bah humbug.

Ah relationships lol, I hate them. My worst breakup was, my GF of 2 months getting mad and yelling at me for not taking care of HER 3 month old baby even though I paid the rent, the food, the everything! she got pissed and I told her to get out and she even tried taking the baby crib with her that I bought, I told her it wasnt hers and she said it was a gift, So I let her take half of it lol, she was so bitter even after I did everything for here, this is why I hate american girls.

I rememeber my last relationship quite similar to but add on eating disorder to that with two face liar...and vindictive..and downright nasty

but what makes it worse, is that I never realized it until she ended up in hospital after drinking a substance she shouldn't have...Bleach...
even then I still wanted to believe in her, that things could recover, it in some ways is easier to be single then be in a difficult relationship...but does anyone who lost a relationship, that they really did "love" that person?

I use "love" as a catch all term really because love, in my belief, doesn't exist...whether it is just because I am sour 20 year old with ALOT of damage from my last realationship I dunno...
It always does seem that the male is to blame..they didn't try hard enough, they didn't do this or that...
It is interesting because if a woman says that they left the man the reaction is different:
"Ah, he wasn't worth it"
"He diserved it"..blah blah blah

HOWEVER in a males case of leaving or cheating in a relationship it is like
"OMG WHAT A STUPID DI*K, YOU LEFT HER, YOU A**HOLE"
No matter what you seem to do, a male cannot win!

Just to clarify, I am a very feminist male...this is the only time you will most likely hear me say something like this! lol

O_O

(Thanks his lucky stars I haven't had to go through any of this shit.)

Although, I'll always remember what one chick told my dad just...outta the freakin blue:

"Your too good for me. That's why we have to break up."

Wut?

I'm so glad to see so many guys making the same comments with similar feelings to myself. I think that generally guys are looked at as the ones who are to blame mainly in relationships failing. A relationship works both ways but just like Jonnie said men are stereotyped as the ones who are at fault. This is a lot to do with the media as well. The only difference is that we as men don't express how we feel about it as much. I think a lot of girls expect us to be statues they can express themselves to without realizing that we also have emotions as well. I'm not trying to say that all girls are like this because some men do most of that talking in their relationship especially if their partner has a quiet personality. When a guy is interested in a girl he is more likely to confess that he wants a relationship. This hardly ever happens the other way round, only through hints. We are expected to look into signals which can be incredibly annoying because if we don't look into them properly and end up getting with another girl, rumours will be spread that we are players even though we're not or at least not intentionally according to some women who understand us. Women also always think that we are only interested in a girl because they are attractive. They forget that we could be interested in them because they share similar interests or have a uniqueness in them that we are drawn to such as having a nice smile or a specific voice or even simply the way they behave. I'm not trying to go against women but I believe that women today don't value and respect their men as much as they use to, they expect too much. Probably because of a decline in traditions which I'm for, I'm for feminism too.

The majority of people don't know what they want till they find it. Most girls and guys are looking for a stable relationship but want what the media stereotype as perfection which is either difficult to find or almost impossible. Everyone has their own flaws and people should be able to just enjoy each others company without hating. Love each other for your strengths and weaknesses not just the part that shines the most in a person.

I have to say I disagree with those facts Sparrowsmith. While I agree that this may be more accurate in America and Western Countries. I'm criticizing you because statistics lack validity and doesn't go in depth into every detail as to why. Those facts don't mention a range of other factors that make people in relationships stable or not. You forgot that cultural values plays a big influence, in African countries like Nigeria marriage and relationships are valued. You also forgot that religion, social experiences and the impact of the feminist movement giving women more power as also changed behavioral patterns over the years. There are so many reasons that the study is to simplistic.

I had a really bad breakup with a girl I felt so close to I was sure I'd end up marrying one day(we dated more than two years). We broke up mainly because our families wouldn't accept us. That and trust issues on both ends as the relationship came to a close(we were long distance and both had our moments of weakness).

We tried being friends, but that didn't work and we had another falling out.

She messaged me for the first time in weeks and despite being in a relationship with another at the moment I know I'm still madly in love with her. No clue what to do.