I am a pure Final Fantasy fan. But recently, or shall I say, since 1997, all I ever find is 'Final Fantasy 7 pwns all Final Fantasy games.' or 'This game is crap. Square Enix should have remade Final Fantasy 7 instead of this.' -1st Quote I made up, 2nd Quote from a Final Fantasy 13 Trailer on YouTube. TOTALLY UNRELEVANT!

Also, I have noticed over the years that there has been lots of Final Fantasy 7 prequels/sequels. I mean... why? Just why? WHY! WHY WHY! WHY!!!!!?!?!?!!?!? Is it because... they couldn't round up the original Final Fantasy 7's story? Or is it because... fans wanted more? (MOST LIKELY!) Too much attention is being payed to this game. There's millions of- wait, let me rephrase that. There's several Final Fantasy fans (I'm one of them) who think FF7 is overrated, and have interests in games like V, VI, VIII, IX, X and so on and so forth.

Personally my favourite is 13. I just loooved the characters. Especially Sazh. He just made me laugh. Oooh! And also when Fang totally pwned Snow in Orphans Cradle. ...BACK ON TOPIC!

There was:
Final Fantasy 7 (Fair enough, it is the original 7)

Crisis Core
Before Crisis
After Crisis
Advent Children
Dirge of Cerberus
Unnamed (It wasn't called unnamed. I think there was an anime film of FF7 called Last Stand or summit. Can't remember.)

Come on people! 5 Extra, pointless games just to please fans needs? Personally, I got bored with FF7. It just didn't seem to drag me into the story. I'm like: 'Woohoo Aeris has been kidnapped. Better go save her. *YAWN* YAWN*'

I know there are LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS (2 hours later) AND LOTS AND LOTS of fans who will disagree with my message I am trying to pass on.

I'm just trying to say: 'Hey. Us fans have gave this game too much praise. Let us focus on another game, this is getting old. 13 years of praise.' *Yikes*

I've presented this discussion in a calm manor. All I want back is a nice, calm comment. Nothing like 'OMG YOU DONT LIKE FINAL FANTASY 7? YOUR A F*****. GO LEARN ABOUT GOOD GAMES.' or something on those lines.

Thank you, and I hope I have got a point across.

just gonna fly this over to the game lounge, pay more attention where you're posting next time

I agree and disagree with you on some points. One of the points you made that I absolutely agree with you on, is that more attention needs to be diverted to the more "classic" FF series games like V and VI. Hell, I'm still waiting on Final Fantasy VI in 3D one day (that would totally rock the boat). Anyway, I digress. I think that FF7 was one of Square's masterpieces, it showcased the PSX's abilities to the degree that no game really had before then in my opinion. FF7 was a solid story, with solid characters, and it really generated an audience in North America the likes of which previous FF games (at that point in time) really did not achieve (though they should have in my view). The cries of fans yearning for a FF7 remake on the PS3/Xbox 360 with their next-gen graphics are..well..all over the 'net. I think the cry for a FF7 remake is equal or nearly equal to a "true" sequel of Chrono Trigger (I'm sorry but Chrono Cross just didn't cut it for me).

I think in summation, I agree with most of what you said, except that while FF7 has had 13 years of praise..games like FFIV - FFVI are STILL revered in the gaming community since their days on the SNES even. My favorite FF is, and always will be, FFVI. The characters, the story, the depth..and Kefka blew up the fricken' world! How many FF villains can really make that assertion?

Oh..and just to put it out there I think FFXIII was just...blah. The game was one big cliche', with poorly written characters, no explorable "towns" really, and its emphasis was "oh wow look at my graphics aren't I fantastic?". No offense to those who loved the game, but for me it was a serious let-down.

Yeah, I get sick of hearing "FFVII is the best game in the universe." I shit you not, I hear that all the time. Personally, I'm kinda glad it got all those spinoff games. Dirge of Cerberus and Crisis Core were hella fun. Way better than actual FFVII. I'm a pretty big FF fan too, I've beaten the majority of the main series games, including FFVII. I didn't like FFVII all that much. I'd have to say it's near the bottom of my list actually. I don't have an official list but I like the majority of I-XIII better, if not all of them. It just wasn't that fun for me. The story was alright. Sephiroth is far from the coolest villain and Cloud is far from being the most badass hero.
Hatred aside, I think FFVII is what got a lot of people into Final Fantasy in general. Out of the main entries, only I, IV, and VI had been released in America before, and those were for NES and SNES. FFVII was the first one for PSX and the first one with 3D graphics. Those graphics were amazing back then. I know for some of the less retarded fans, FFVII will always hold a special place in their hearts that no RPG can replace.
People like that, I can understand. Some people are just stupid about it though and I don't get it.

People just say it's the best because it was the one game that revolutionized the series (By this I mean it created a huge turn for the series), and the game that revolutionizes a series is often picked as the best game in the series no matter how much better future sequels are (This, Ocarina of Time, Castlevania: Symphony of the Night, World of Warcraft, and a few others I have forgotten at the moment).

To be honest though, I stopped caring about the series after IX, with VII being the last in the series that I've beaten and VI as my favorite one of all. However, I do make exceptions with a select few spin-offs if they catch my interest, such as 4 Heroes of Light since it's more like the old school FFs.

VII has always been popular with me because of its replay value. I'm not sure why, I've just played it over and over and respect it more each time. I can replay any other FF, and enjoy it, but there'll always be parts I get to where boredom strikes. I'll say to myself, "ugh, can't be arsed with this bit, I'm just gonna rush through it."
But I've never done that with FFVII.

Another thing is concept value. Another game I love is Dark Chronicle, because of the themes involved being absolutely brilliant to me, but even that had a period of 'rest' in which I got bored and didn't play for a while, and I had to push myself to finish.
Few games, even FF games, manage to hold my attention for the whole journey. There are games with fantastic beginnings, with timeless middles, and climatic ends, but few have all three.
It's also about loops. Imagine Lost. Lost was a hit TV show because for every question answered it asked five more, sadly they didn't quite get the flourishing end many hoped for (though I did enjoy it). FFVII opens and closes its loops flawlessly. It does not seek to over blow anything, at least not originally, it just follows. Too many games, especially RPGs, take a hapless hero and have them save the world - and this works - but too many do it badly... Even FF games.

The point I'm making is that I've never cringed during FFVII, but I have in almost every other FF game.
And I have cringed definitely in every single RPG game...
Then again, I didn't play FFVI for very long, but it couldn't hold my attention for shit. For all its praise I just can't stand it.
But to each their own I guess...

In the end, it all comes down to matter of preference. Where you said you were never bored with FFVII, it was almost the opposite for me. I was completely bored with the majority of it. The story didn't really hook me and I didn't like many of the characters. I know people who cried when Aerith died, but I barely got to know her before she kicked the bucket. Maybe if it had happened later in the game and I was able to get attached to her, I would have cared. Or if she had been at all a likable character.
One of my favorite RPGs is Infinite Undiscovery but I hear a lot of bad things about that game. I'm on my third playthrough of that game. So while I do have these gripes for FFVII, your opinion is valid and in no way am I putting you down for it.

Final Fantasy VII was basically the first jRPG that reached Europe (and didn't get stuck in the US with lackluster sales and thus it being obvious to businessmen that "if it doesn't sell in the US, then how could it sell in Europe?".

Final Fantasy VII also had quite the marketing budget (I even remember there being a TV-ad for it). So apart from Europe it's not unreasonable to think that VII was the first encounter most people had with FF. And as everyone knows your first encounter is usually the best one. Those nostalgia goggles are hard to get over. I remember first playing it and being completely blown away. I didn't even understand video games could do what FFVII did (and what VI had done before.). The closest I had come was Link's Adventure.

Of course by the end of VIII I was completely over Final Fantasy and since the first disc of IX I've never touched a Final Fantasy. Because at the PSX era the development of games started to go at such a breakneck phase that by IX Final Fantasy was more or less irrelevant to me.

I completely agree with what you're saying. I have to admit that FFVII was the first FF I played and I did think it was pretty cool way back then. I played it at my friend's house for a couple hours and thought it was awesome. Then I forgot about it and finally got around to beating it a year or so ago and by then, the glamor had worn off a long time ago. I don't really like it at all now. lol

I honestly don't know why VII has so many fanboys, but these people are the same people that went apeshit over that train wreck of a "game" FF13, so I'm going to mark stupidity as one of the reasons its so popular. It's like the chumps that hail NGE as the Second Coming; something bearable and decidedly mediocre being blown way, way, way out of proportion.

Best Final Fantasy games? Dirge of Cerberus and X-2. Both way underrated and both extremely solid, and both would have done tremendously better if they hadn't been Final Fantasy related.

I think its so popular because of the love triangle, the first game to enter a new era and the first of the FF series to kill off a main character that's a...girl lol

I love FFVII and I thought FF13 was complete shit. That game should just be deleted from existence. It seriously just pushed you through the entire game. You couldn't go where you wanted or do what you wanted at all. You couldn't even make your own party until the 3rd disc (on the xbox 360) and even then it forced you to use certain characters minutes later! Aaaaaaaanyway. Dirge of Cerberus was a good game, I own it and have beaten it on all difficulties... however, I disagree with your X-2 statement. I thought X-2 was extremely boring as well. Sure there was a ton of stuff you could do, and the dress spheres really gave each battle it's own "zing." However... the endings to the game were just stupid. Especially the secret ending. Complete garbage. I also disagree with your statement about if they weren't FF games they would of done better. I doubt I even would of picked up Dirge of Cerberus if I didn't know anything about the game. Vincent is a bad ass character and he fit the role perfectly. Anyway; I believe FFVII is so popular because of it's replay value. There is so many things you can do in that game and so many side-quests to get better equipment and what-not. I would pick FFVII over any Final Fantasy, any day. If they remade FFVII I would buy whatever system it was for, in a heartbeat.

I've never played FFVII, but I've heard that it's the best game ever.
I heard the same thing about VI, and I played it and thought it was real boring. >__>

FFXIII supposedly sucks, but, IMO, it's one of the best games I've played. But I'm stuck on Bahamut.
.__.

I think that the reason FFVII is so popular is, like everyone else says, people's first RPG, but it also has a bajillion PSP spinoffs and also Kingdom Hearts.
How THAT crappy series is popular, I don't know.
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And this is why I said they'd have done better if they weren't FF related.

I'm speaking more directly towards X-2 than Dirge of Cerberus because you ARE right that Vincent fit that role perfectly, it's just that everything else FFVII related to DoC felt... extraneous. The game could have focused SOLEY on Vincent (and also Yuffie, I guess) without any input from anyone else and it would have been just fine. Set the damn game somewhere other than Midgar's outskirts and interior, have Vinnie do his gunplay and Yuffie take care of the stealth sections. Awesome game with minimal FFVII influence. I mean, seriously. I really could have done without Cait Sith.

But I digress.

X-2 was, mechanically speaking, an incredibly solid game. It looked beautiful, the combat system was probably the best in any Final Fantasy game... but the setting and the story? Not so good. Honest to god, it really felt as if it had started off as an entirely unrelated FF game, and they gutted it and stuffed it full of Final Fantasy X bullshit and slapped on a terrible fucking story for shits and giggles. But part of the reason it's still one of the better FF titles is, despite the wicked bad story, you can ignore all that and its still a fun game.

FFX-2 did have a nice combat system, and I did enjoy it, but it was a pathetic excuse for a story line and 95% of the game was twelve-year-old fan service (AKA softcore porn) mixed with hyperactive, embarrassing, and canon destroying cutscenes.

If I had to choose though, I'd put the FFVII battle system above any other. Maybe vamp it up, but the materia system has yet to be matched. Even the simplest of materia had the potential to become devastating if trained properly and used effectively. This is one of the reasons I love it so much.
There's also a large base of people who power level early in the game for the lulz (My brother bought the game in japanese to help himself learn the language, and got himself to level 60 before the end of the first disk) and other people who try to make it to the end with the lowest levels possible (often hacking the game to do this)
It's popular because the battles never hindered the mood, the characters weren't 'THE BEST' like so many other RPGs try to do, the cutscenes are beautiful - not graphically as such, but in the way they are done.
Overall it just works.

Stating that FFVII is the best game ever is ridiculous, however bashing it and denying its qualities is also ridiculous.

Coming from a guy whose first console was a NES and who suckled Seiken Dentetsu series like crazy, FFVII was an enjoyable experience. Sure, it's full of clichés: the huge conglomerate, the ancient civilization living in harmony with nature, the super soldier, the "cool" professionnals... yeah, that's true. But the execution was quite good and kept me playing.
Gameplay-wise, classic but effective. Regular battles are short, enemies can pack good damage, and certain bosses (like the wall in the Ancient Temple) could present a certain challenge. Lots of secrets too, so potential play time is high.

No, seriously, it's certainly not the best game ever (it's not even the best FF, and FF is not the best franchise either), but it certainly doesn't suck.

K...I was going to leave this alone, because for fuck's sake we have a "lol ff7" thread about every 2 weeks...but here goes. For the longest time, FF7 was my favorite RPG. I don't know why...maybe it's because it had the most significant impact on me. I agree that it's gotten overhyped in the form of prequels, sequels, movies, cameos, etc. If anything, it's amazing that FFX was the first FF to ever receive a sequel, FF6 still hasn't, and I really never heard much about FF4 After Years or whatever it's called.

In a way I'm glad FF6 hasn't because it's preserved the memory of the game for me. The pre/sequels of FF7 have literally ruined what I loved. And I agree that not everyone likes it, but often people only hate on it because it was popular, which is just as bad as loving it blindly. For the record, Dirge of Cerberus SUCKED. No FF game should've been degraded to the level of a terrible third person shooter. The story was crap, they tried to make Vincent interesting and only succeeding in making him MORE emo, and the weapon system was just complex enough to be annoying but not complex enough to be interesting.

However, I will agree with you about X-2. Most people scoff at it because LOL GRRL POWER ACTUALLY. However, the battle system was pretty nice and I actually liked the dress sphere system. It combined what I liked about former job systems and allowed for rapid switching on the fly to change up tactics. Final Fantasy 7 WAS relevant because it had a lot of firsts going for it and to be fair, so did the original FF, FF4, FF6, FF8, FFX, FF12, and even FF13. Obviously the original was...well, the original. Naturally it would have a lot of firsts.

FF2 tried to stem away from traditional leveling up, but it became weird in the process. Some of the traits were passed to the SaGa series and done better there, IMO. FF3 had jobs. FF4 had several types of vehicles, multiple planes, and an actual story with actual characters, but it allowed for less customization as a result. Definitely a good pick up and play title beside Mystic Quest, but much better than MQ. FF5...really didn't do anything new or different besides try to be funny...and fail in that respect.

FF6 had the largest cast of characters, an opera scene, two whole worlds with a semi-apocalyptic theme, an actual funny script at times, lots of bizarre new classes, magicite doubling as espers/summons, and yet still managed to pull off the class thing FF4 was without feeling too restricting. While it is true FF7 had a visceral update, there's so much more than that...

- First FF to have FMVs and cutscenes, changing the way we thought about RPGs.
- First FF to have 3D graphics and therefore awesomely prerendered backgrounds.
- First FF to go sci-fi/futuristic, which may have turned off some people, but it totally worked for me.
- Utilized materia, which wasn't quite as good as magicite, but still interesting.
- Second FF to have limit breaks and special characters.
- First FF to have a black main character.
- Second FF to have cross dressing.
- First FF to have mindfuck qualities.

And more, of course. Final Fantasy 7 took off firstly because of its visceral qualities, then kept people in with its excellent starter and all around great story. Looking back on it now, naturally it looks very dated and doesn't even sound as good as I remember it. And of course, constantly mentioning it as much favorite RPG didn't do justice to various other titles I loved such as FF6, Chrono Trigger, 7th Saga, or even new titles like the Persona games, Mass Effect, Tales of Vesperia, Lost Odyssey, or Eternal Sonata.

I'll tell you exactly why I hated FF13. When I played FF12, I didn't really like how it wasn't turn based. I had hoped that they would modify it in a way that I would be able to select what I wanted everyone to do. I think FFX did it best with its fast pace, yet still wait time oriented turn based combat. FF12 felt like an MMO. However, FF13 felt like they were trying to satisfy too many parties at once and ended up satisfying no one. The ATB, naturally, reminded me of FF6...but the bar moves too fast and because there are too many things to queue up at once, you eventually HAVE to stick with auto-battle, even if you set the speed to slow.

Granted, it's supposed to pick the best strategy, but that means the only amount of strategy you concentrate on is paradigm shifting, which is still a cool idea, but that's literally all you do besides press the goddamn confirm button over and over again. I felt more like that one guy that didn't really like FF games but played them anyway and just skipped all the dialog while constantly mashing the A button over and over again in battle, hoping for the best, except now it's like you're ENCOURAGED to do that.

The crystarium isn't any better. Originally I thought it was interesting...take a concept similar to that of the sphere grid, but have it more like a branching tree a la Diablo and relevant to different roles for each person. Also, put it in tiers so you can't level up too far too quickly, allowing for greater strategy in battle. Except, it doesn't allow for greater strategy...just more trial and error. On top of that, it eventually gets to the point that it's basically just one path for each role, not gigantic branching and tough choices like I was expecting.

There also doesn't seem to be any major difference between one character on one role or another besides the obvious (Hope clearly isn't a fighter, so obviously he's more suited as a mage, for example). I often found myself, especially after reaching Gran Pulse, just staying with one party and never changing them around. In fact, there isn't even an option to do so mid combat. That was another thing I liked about FFX that they didn't transfer over...every person had some distinct strategy or situation most appropriate for them.

Yes, I've heard tale of "breaking" those strategies by completely exploiting the sphere grid, but at least initially and up to where I usually get before I get bored (calm plains), I didn't notice anything like that, possibly because I tried to have everyone stay within their classes the best I could. FF13 is a beautiful game, don't get me wrong, but it's little more than that. The story does a terrible job of explaining things, instead opting to have a gigantic encyclopedia for you to read, I didn't really like any of the characters, the battle music got annoying and repetitive, and the lack of the FF theme sealed the deal of my disdain with this title.

Now I don't know. I haven't beaten it yet, mostly because I got bored in Gran Pulse. Maybe there's some AMAZING ending that will bring me back into focus, but I doubt it. The only FF ending I ever liked was FF6. The others were either nonsense or just slapped together for an almost "oh shit, did he actually beat it, uh, congratulations or something!" Therefore I don't really play FFs for the ending, but rather the experience. And so far, I've not exactly had a grand experience from the game, as you might have imagined.

...And that's about it.

They just got served. With mashed potatoes AND cheese biscuits! *gets shot for quoting one of the most retarded lines in history*

Actually, that's probably not fair. It's one of the few FFs I haven't beaten. HOWEVER...I did see my brother beat it...and I wasn't really impressed...so there's that! Yeah!

I beat it. Favorite parts: Gilgamesh and Battle at the Big Bridge. That song was awesome. And Gilgamesh was horribly cheesy with such memorable quotes as "Hasta la bye-bye!" and "Ha ha! Looking for something? Well, geuss what? I already took the treasure! Ohh, you guys are sooo burned!" and last but not least, "Oh really? Just try it, Baldy! You cannot even hold a birthday candle to the blazing flame of my winning spirit!"
Back onto the topic of Final Fantasy endings, I had to take a moment to think of which ones I really liked and XII immediately popped into my head. I loved that game, then hated it and quit, then loved it, then hated it but trudged through it, then loved it and made it to the extremely awesome ending. I cried at the end. lol I really, really, really, really loved it. I think the 80 hours I spent on it were worth it and I've been meaning to start a second playthrough for all the side quests and whatnot.
They made a sequel to XII too called Revenant Wings that was pretty fun. It was kind of an RTS style and I think it was well executed. I remember enjoying the game but I don't really remember the ending. lol

My favourite endings are 7 and 9.
Mainly because they are the only ones I've cared enough to finish.

I haven't really ever got into a Final Fantasy game outside of the 3 PS1 games (7,8 and 9)
Possibly because it was just something new for me, each game held a pretty different look character wise.
Although the maps look brilliant in each game.

For me, 7 was just a great game back when I played it.
It had a good length, a fun world to explore, challenge.
Visuals and sound were fine.
Keep in mind, I played this like a year or two after release, for me, the character graphics weren't something I cared about.
Although today, I think they serve they purpose pretty well.

As far as storyline and whatever, I really haven't played it much in recent years, partially due to my own copy being broken.
I borrowed my friends copy and haven't really played it much either.
Although, the nostalgia is pretty damn sweet, the best thing about being rusty at a game is making mistakes that you shouldn't make, its like playing a game for the first time again.
Example of this is when climbing up that wall shortly after you fight Reno.
Theres a bit where you have to grab onto a rope to continue on.
NEVER HAVE I BEEN SO FRUSTRATED WITH A GAME!
Seriously, that is probably my biggest complaint with this game.


Its just a timeless game, like Mario, Sonic or Metal Gear Solid, it has its flaws, but its playable enough to spark an interest in most audiences.

In my opinion, FF7 was one of the worst things to ever stumble across your television screen. I didn't find it enjoyable at all to be honest, and personally i prefered SSBM's event matches. Now THAT takes some beating... The combat system was fine, where the game lost the plot was with the...plot. WTF was going on? First of all we are taking down shinra, then piss-arsing around for a entire disk, then we meet some 5-year old lab rat with wierd hair who wants to drop a giant rock on the city some 45 hours of torture later. I found most if not all of the cutscenes badly planned/cheesy, WTF happened with "Sapphire" WEAPON? It was RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE CANNON...And "Diamond" WEAPON, it let itself get hit...FOO! Then we get to the topic of the party:

A spiked-hair Emo with no emotions whatsoever.
Mr.T ripoff
Girl with hugely long hair...
Stupid Flower girls who run off in enemy populated areas...
Geneticly enchanced dogs...
Materia stealing ninjas'
Cat...thing...robot...strange...creature...thing...
Vampires?

Oh, they don't matter once you have KOTR. you can kill anything in the game in 1 round, minus a few. Big whoopy doo.

As for RPG's, i'd rather stick to Golden Sun and Tales Of Symphonia(I've had a sudden change of heart recently >_<)
Sorry, FF5 is the only FF that i truely enjoy. Maybe 4 and 6...sort of.

Do you sometimes wake up in the morning and think "I wonder what topics I should go ruin on RRR today"? Did you even play the game? I mean sure it had its faults and I didn't like it as much as other Final Fantasy games but I think it deserves a lot of credit. Even if I think it's insanely overhyped. I actually like a lot of the cast. I just don't think they're the ultimate perfect team of awesome like a lot of people do. The story was very well told. Sure it raised some questions but if you don't understand a lot of it, you're either too young or too ignorant. If you paid attention to half of it, you'd still get what was going on. As for Knights of the Round, never used it. Ever in my life. I agree that it takes a lot of the challenge out of battles but you're not forced to use it.
Those aren't even real reasons for disliking the game. You just came in here and randomly flamed it. As usual.

In my opinion FFVII popularity has nothing to do with the quality of the game itself.
There are a quantity of games with better gameplay and characters than FFVII released around the same period, that are half as popular.

I think it has to do with the fact that Cloud, cool-looking uber strong indipendent mercenary ex-soldier with misterious past, is the archetype of what the average boy wants to be. Plus, all the hot chicks in the party want him even if he has no personality whatsoever.
Hey who needs actual personality if you are a badass warrior!?
Also, the central conflict is about defeating Sephiroth, which is another Gary Stu of unmatched strenght and awesomeness that wants to destroy the world because he conveniently goes mad (read: the authors couldn't write a better excuse to create a conflict with Sephiroth).
And... OMG Aerith dies! So sad really.
Let's be honest, nobody would remember Aerith if it was not for the fact she died. She's not remembered for her personality or for the things she did, she's remembered for dying and for being the main guy love interest.


Still, I don't think it was a bad game, I consider it an above average game (for its time), with an intresting plot and scenario, coupled with half-intresting gameplay and awful characters.

I don't think I've ever heard of a worse summary to a game. This is like saying Mario is a porn flick about an electrician trying to find a bowl of strawberries by going to ecstasy parties...


I'm a bit tired of people saying Cloud had no emotions. Did they not play the game at all?
The movie and sequels made him out to be an emo, in the game he was not.
Yes, at the beginning he is a moody prick. He acts this way because he's lost most of what he cares about. He has some damn good reasons to be unhappy if you just pay attention. However, there are several times where you see his true character (Jokes with Yuffie on the airship about getting travel sick. Childhood with Tifa. Dressing up as a woman to save Aeris and Tifa)
Seriously, Cloud was far from emo. The movie ruined him. He was not like that at all.
Mr.T never fought to make the world a better place for his daughter
Long hair? Yes, because that's the weirdest thing about Tifa...
Stupid Flower girl, last of the ancients. TOmato Tomato
Red XIII is a dog?
Yeah. Ninjas.
It's a robot controlled by one of the Shinra heads.
Genetically altered vampire


I can't believe you rip on this game yet praise some of the other FFs. I gave 1-6 honest trys but never got more than a few hours in before face palming and putting a different FF on.
Castles, crystals, dragons, 'save the world... Because... Save the world!', 'I'm evil because... I'm evil'
There was about as much originality as a children's story.
That said, the ones i did make it more than an hour into (IV and VI, I believe, though the titles may have been brought out in the wrong order for some reason) were fairly good, until the second random appearance of an octopus and the third haunted castle i visited.
I gave VI an honest shot, I just wasn't impressed at all. Played RM games that had me more hooked.

VII, while maybe not the best game ever, Achieved exactly what it set out to achieve. The characters were built on tropes, like most characters, but then actually had pasts and personalities crafted into them.
You just had to pay attention.

I'm tempted to pull out my old copy of this and start screenshotting every time there is character development...

Here is where I truly have to respectfully disagree with you Sparrow. I can understand if the game did not hook you in, some games do and some games do not. Every game appeals to people in different ways, however, I must tell you that FFVI had more plot, depth, and character development than FFVII on its best day. Not only do the characters have significant pasts (Shadow,Cyan, and Locke's past are quite significant in addition to Terra's), but the evolution of the characters is..astounding. FFVI was so much more than "Save the world" or "I'm evil because...I'm evil." There were significant, developed reasons for why Kefka and Gestahl were "evil", and not only that, but without FFVI there would have been no Materia system for FFVII in my opinion. FFVI introduced the Esper system, and just to summarize it, once you "equip" an Esper it allows you to learn specific magical spells and so on....sound familiar? FFVII's Materia System does take it a few steps further of course, though the original concept rested with FFVI at least in my own opinion. The plot of FFVI, is so entwined and full of depth, that I can't even summarize it here. The characters are fully developed, well-written, and in my eyes, beat the hell out of FFVII's any day of the week and twice on Sunday. They all have their pasts, which are extensively delved into, and often-times bear significant impact on the current story (Cyan's portion of the story is probably one of the characters that most sticks out in my mind).

Truly, I liked FFVII, both for its story and its gameplay, though I guess my favorite is FFVI because it took a simple concept..magic...and created an expansive and interrelated storyline revolving around that core mechanism. FFVII was a bit cliche' (i.e. evil organization needs to be stopped), whereas FFVI took a relatively simple concept, and molded it into something so creative...that I think it was likely one of the greatest games ever created. That and Xenogears...but I digress.

On a last note, if they ever remake FFVI into 3D (PS3/Xbox 360 graphics), then games like Mass Effect, Lost Odyssey, and yes FFVII (even if they remade it with better graphics) would be blown out of the water. Hands-down.

Now I return you to your regularly scheduled programming.....

Yes, i played through the entire game...and i had a big hole in my mind once i had finished. At least Kefka wasn't lazy like sephiroth. Nothing interesting happens in Disk two,At least halfway through say...Golden sun? You acctually don't have to drag yourself to another area to be greeted by a really easy boss fight.

"On a last note, if they ever remake FFVI into 3D (PS3/Xbox 360 graphics), then games like Mass Effect, Lost Odyssey, and yes FFVII (even if they remade it with better graphics) would be blown out of the water. Hands-down."
Quoted for truth. I don't hate FFVII, it's just that the story was horrible. Cloud was daydreaming over being better than Mr.Lab rat every two seconds, just get over it. The combat system was fine, if they had have used a better story it would have been a better game to be honest.

"Hey who needs actual personality if you are a badass warrior!?"
Auron? He had personality(More than cloud...). And his overdrive apparently says he can drink propane...

"she's remembered for dying"
Case and point.

"I'm tempted to pull out my old copy of this and start screenshotting every time there is character development..."
...

"As for Knights of the Round, never used it. Ever in my life. I agree that it takes a lot of the challenge out of battles but you're not forced to use it."

1 Fricking word:Zanmato. You can 1-shot anything(Even Penance/Braska's Final Aeon/Yu Yevon...) the catch? You have to pay Yojombo a Sh*t ton of gil. As for KOTR, you can just spam it mindlessly.


In my opinion

Please do try to read that was written in my opinion...the topic is called
Why is Final Fantasy VII so popular?
not
Be a jerk and flame people about Final Fantasy VII.
And, i don't ruin threads. Maybe i used to when i first joined but WTF? My post didn't even ruin the thread if it was written in my opinion, what's the point of questioning it? My opinion won't change because you start being stupid and trying to protect the game. Maybe if i'd have just come out with that post without saying it was in my opinion, that would be insulting the game as such. The reason i frown on FF7 is that it took away all the humor, no Tella, no Gilgamesh, Not even Ultros? ):< Added annoying characters minus a few(Rino, Vincent and Tifa wasn't that bad) Made the summon animations way to long. Not as long as Eden from FFVIII, but 3 minutes of boring crap with some knights flying around the screen?


In short: Don't bother flaming or questioning someone's opinion. It probably won't change.

Actually, I don't think it's so much that we want you to change your opinion, because we don't...it's that it's not well stated. That's like busting into a thread a la Koolaid man where people are talking about Ninja Gaiden and going "OHH YEAH!! NINJA GAIDEN IS ALL ABOUT TENTACLE RAPE HENTAI ACTUALLY!!" Then when people go "uhh what," you respond with "IT'S JUST MY OPINION, STOP FLAMING ME, GAWD!!" So look, Napoleon Phantsmal, we get that you don't like the game and that's fine, but we're just asking you to expound upon that, which has yet to be done.

All I've gathered from the posts you've made (and yes, you started a few topics about why you think FF7 is lame), all I've gathered is you don't like Sephiroth and think he wasn't nearly as effective as Kefka or Golbez. Okay, but WHY? That's all we want to know. And as we'd countered with previously, you only meet up with Golbez a few times, meanwhile Sephiroth, whether he is or isn't there, is constantly a threat one way or the other given Cloud's past. He torments Cloud...more or less just because he can.

Kefka was an awesome character, sure, and he certainly had his issues, but...

IN MY OPINION ACTUALLY

Sephiroth was a more threatening character and his constant presence made him feel more disturbing. Also, I call trolling. You state FF5 is your favorite, which is fine...then you state that MAYBE you like 4 and 6. Uhhhh...dude...unless you have the memory of a goldfish, why the HELL would you make a topic about whether 4 or 7 is better? Were you trolling then or are you trolling now? Disc 1 has a LOT of stuff going on for it and it's not our fault if you can't remember disc 2. I would argue disc 3 doesn't have much as it's just the "wrap it up disc," but still.

Finally, you're right.

"Please do try to read that was written in my opinion...the topic is called
Why is Final Fantasy VII so popular?
not
Be a jerk and flame people about Final Fantasy VII."

So why were you a jerk and flamed about FF7? Just saying...maybe you should listen to your own advice. You didn't describe why you thought it was so popular; you restated, once again, why you think it's the scum of the earth...which we've heard again and again and again. And before anyone calls me a hypocrite, I'm aware I've given my reasons why I like it/I think it's popular or at least was at least a dozen times, but I did so on topic each time, including this time. So back on topic...why do you think FF7 was popular, Phantsmal?

7 was nice- but in my oppinion FF 9 was far more better.
The main reason why FF7 got so popular once were the graphics (cutscenes go into backgrounds and so on, first FF with 3d graphics)- and it is still a good game. But saying its the best of the series is crap: The battle system was average, also the skill system. And especially the german translation (all german FF fans know what I mean ) is awful^^
But the story is very well told- something that you normaly miss in todays games...

Actually you're right. I did say how, apart from post VII FF games, VI is the one I played longest. I was enjoying VI thoroughly, but I made it to some mining location on an airship after fighting an octopus for god knows how many times (again, I may be mixing up FF games, I played many of them at the same time) and I just couldn't be bothered anymore.
I honestly should give it another go, I was young at the time. I admit, the moment I was introduced to Locke I did like him. If I remember correctly he was kind of like a proto-Zidane (possibly my fave FF character)

So yes, I do have to give VI another try, especially after all the fuss on it. It is much more that 'I'm evil' and 'let's save the world' but I never quite got the feel of each part.
Another one of my fave games, Dark Chronicle, had a fairly terrible plot - but an amazing sense of theme. Everything always felt right, no matter how absurd. With VI though I often felt out of place. Even if the plot was good, the sudden introduction of a character or scenario that was meant to be interesting/funny/dramatic but wasn't put me off.
If it is the game with the crazy octopus that reappears like five times, then I really don't understand why it was there.
If not then just pay attention to my praising of locke, who I agree is a very well developed character. I'll play it sometime and let you all know if I reach a different conclusion.



IX is my second favorite FF. There are times when it falls a bit flat, but it receives kudos purely for being so good after the cliche toilet of a game FFVIII.
Whoever made VIII was on some baaad crack.
IX was brilliant though. The sword fight near the beginning was terrific, the feel and theme of the entire game was consistent.
Unlike 99/100 games in the world, you feel the moment. When the characters are happy, you're happy. When the characters are in trouble, you feel afraid. The game laid you down on a comfortable plot, wrapped you up with some tight trope mocking characters, and read you a fantastic tale filled with a roller-coaster of emotions.
IX would have made my fave FF (Kuja is so freaking awesome) if it weren't for some of the characters pulling away from the atmosphere, and some moments being incredibly cheesy.
If IX had tried a little less hard on the comic relief, it would have been far greater then VII. You could probably make it better just by cutting bits out...

Can you imagine resources and team members have been pulled away from Xenogears, to get FFVIII done on schedule?

I should say that I don't hate FFVII. The game was flat and mediocre, but not terrible or unplayable by any means. It's more the rabid fanbase i have a problem with.

Now I will say, in regards to FFVIII, that the only redeeming quality I could find in it was that the Eden summon was pretty badass.

And i guess triple triad was pretty cool, until you find out that the retarded rulesets spread around like a virus, rendering the minigame totally unplayable.

I found 9's tetra master much more enjoyable that 8's card game.



I felt so disappointed that you only do that mini-game sword fight once throughout the game, it was so fun.
9 is just a cool game.


I have to say though, 8 had its moments, the majority of party members were pretty cool and the sound track top notch too.
I think part of its problem was that several aspects of the traditional gameplay were changed such as character equipment and money.
Limited to weapons only and an allowance every so often based on your test scores, I guess its justified, but I like equipping my crew cos I'm a cool leader
But yeah, it has its moments and I like the character models.

Another thing that IX won points for was having specific things learned by specific characters, but you decide what they learn.
I literally loved building up my mage to be a battle mage, or my tank to being able to buff.
Small little attributed you can give them without making them 'jack-of-all-trades'

VIII I'll say honestly started the best out of any FF. The idea of a school, being examined, going on missions, rivalry, dances, they could have kept that up for much longer without it being boring. Almost all games with a 'school' at the beginning do terrifically.
Fable, FFVIII, Kingdom Hearts (kind of counts), etc

VIII went downhill once world-wide war seemed to break out. I love the espionage and 'conspiracy' type thriller that covered the end of the first disk, with Squall very nearly assassinating Edea (amazing to watch)
but the entire game went downhill from there.

In fact, I'd go as far to say the game could have ended there with Squall being successful, and then change perspective back to the school, bring in new characters, and have some new dilemma.
The sudden change from super fast paced assassination to slow torture and prison break was just unbearable, and doesn't go anywhere fast after that. They could have done better...

Also, for all people say Cloud is an emo, TAKE A FREAKING LOOK AT SQUALL.
Squall is my least favorite protagonist of all the FF protagonists.
FFI to FFIV = no character
FFV i don't know, never played.
FFVI = jokey but cool main character
FFVII = angsty but well developed lead
FFVIII = most depressed mother fucker on earth, with no good reason to be so unhappy
FFIX = Happy go lucky, they clearly learned from their mistakes
FFX = Happy go lucky but with a big ego... Going down hill...
FFXII = Happy go lucky but with massive aspirations and a huge ego and a ... Where did everybody go?
FFXIII = Didn't even play, looks like they went back to depressed.

VII and IX hit the jackpots for a lead role.
Cloud - A fairly relaxed and naive person with aspirations that lead him to the military. After working under his idol and being exposed to horrors (including genetic muck-about) he became a recluse and a mistrusting, self-serving, emo. Around good company he began to open up into his past self, realizing along the way that he had a lot more to be proud of than he did to feel sad about.
Zidane - A very relaxed and complacent thief on the outside, but a caring and secretive person in. He jokes around and mocks others because of his own worries, and knows when to joke and when to be serious. When his own flaws are pointed out he becomes defensive, and when faced with the truth he often hurls himself into denial. Along his journey he find out he has a lot more to be sad about that happy, but that his past does not define him (symbolism between him and Vivi)

There virtual opposites but both inhabit the 'good main character' spot. The area between:
"I'll save the world... Even though I'm depressed!"
and
"I'll save the world! Because I'm happy! All the time!"
and
"I'll save the world, despite having no real emotions either way."

Another one of my fave things about VII was the maps. No other FF game feels as well shot as the maps of VII. Walking through the reactor at the beginning you felt like you were on set of a movie, or watching through CCTV. The shots weren't in the best place, per se, they were just in the most interesting positions.
Some of this charm was lost towards the end however... Especially in the crater which featured some rather poor camera shots.

Basically, VII was one of the first RPG games to have a third dimension, and they used it. They didn't just have a third dimension, they used it to the best of their ability. That's what makes FFVII's mapping so good.

Never once did I flame you. That was actually a serious question. We're having an intelligent discussion here about the merits of the game, even if not all of us feel is the best game ever made. You keep going on about how bad it is but you're not backing that up with actual examples from the game. This time you mentioned minor reasons you dislike it(the lack of humor, I guess annoying characters, not sure who all you mean by that, and ridiculously long summon animations) but surely these aren't enough to make the game horrible. If I wanted to flame you, I would call you names, make fun of your opinion, etc, etc. I have done none of these things. Also,



There are ways to get him at a reduced price and you don't even have to pay him a lot to get him to do major damage. I didn't use him either though. The only cheap trick I used was killing Yu Yevon or whatever the final final thing was by using a Phoenix Down because really, that fight would have been way too long and it's impossible to lose anyways if I remember right. But regardless, you didn't even respond to what I was saying when I said you have a choice in using Knights of the Round or not. If you don't like it, don't use it. It's as simple as that.

In my opinion, Cloud was a good character only in Crisis Core, where, as you said, he was a nice relaxed person and relatively naive (understandably since he was 16) with the aspiration of becoming a SOLDIER. He wasn't a child prodigy as he didn't manage to enter the elite, but he wasn't a wussy either; in one word, he was believable.
After Hojo experiments and Zack death, Cloud builds fake memories and a fake persona, with ideal images of himself mixed with Zack personality and some of his past experiences.
So, now he is convinced he is an ex first class SOLDIER, and works as a mercenary, he is admired by his friends for being strong and skilled, and all the women are all over him; he can do basically all he wants of his life, and he has the skills to accomplish his dreams.
He has no reason for being a depressed emo, he uses his strenght to protect the planet from ShinRa and from Sephiroth, and all the people who accompany him in his eroic journey are always supportive.
Now, I won't even start rambling about AC Cloud, which is the lowest incarnation of FFVII franchise and Cloud poorest interpretation.
The fact he blames himself for Zack's and Aerith's death when it's not actually his fault, is only a sad excuse to make him act as a cold and aloof dark-hero.



But I have to say, I'd take emo-Cloud anytime over emo-Squall.

I can semi-relate to Cloud on that actually. He's probably been constantly thinking if only he'd been stronger, he could have done something to stop their deaths for the past year or two that was between FFVII and AC. The sin of weakness bears a heavy burden.
Okay, that last line was a bit of an over-dramatization. lol But you get what I'm saying.

As I read through all these posts all I see are "this character is emo" or "that character is emo." We've all seen an "Emo kid," however, I don't think this relates to any FF characters that I've seen at all. Everyone has emotions and everyone expresses them in different ways. Cloud loses someone dear to him to his idol, and now enemy, and all of a sudden he's emo? He was right in front of her as Sephiroth came out of no where and killed her. What if he had been there 5 minutes ahead of time? If one of your best friends was waiting for you at an airport and you were running late and for some reason they got killed (it doesn't matter how, just that they did) and you were in a serious depression and always asked yourself "what if," does that make you emo? Fuck no, that makes you depressed and grieving; the same way as Cloud, Squall (according to Sparrow, 'cause I never played FF8), and Vincent. I think the way that Cloud acts is great, it shows that not every main character has to be some hard talking bad ass. Men not only have feelings but even spiky haired ex-SOLDIERS with giant swords can express them. Like I said before; emotions make a character. I would rather have a guy that gets upset about something and is always on the verge of tears anytime he thinks about it, then someone who has no emotions and is as interesting as a rock.

I always thought he blamed himself because of the other two similar scenarios in his life:
-being unable to stop Sephiroth (only he actually did)
-being unable to save Zack (because Zack saved him and in his mind he was Zack)

Basically, for cloud's made up memories to work, he has to forget that Zack failed. Zack failed to stop Sephiroth and died saving Cloud. When Cloud pretends to be Zack, he has to forget all this. So whenever he fails, he feels like Zack. His psyche is pushed to try and compensate for how he can win and lose at the same time (too many memories).
Remember when he saved Jessie at the start of the game? This was foreshadowing for the events to come.

Cloud wants to be the hero every time, so pretends to be the greatest hero he knew (Zack) but Zack often failed, and this leads Cloud to doubt his own abilities. When Cloud fails, he becomes afraid that he'll end up like Zack. Even though he doesn't remember who Zack is.

Meh, maybe I read into things too much and all this is BS, who knows I like what Rzr said

For me i love Final Fantasy 6. Kefka blowing up the World. Pure awesomeness!

And Final Fantasy 8. Just the hearing of the Ragnarok Spaceship/Airship theme is so awesome.

I also like Final Fantasy 7 but not that much.

For me, Final Fantasy 7 wasn't just my first Final Fantasy it was my first RPG period. It was also a part of the short list of my very first games so I'll always have love for FF 7.

Besides all that, I really enjoyed the storyline, the gameplay, everything. The only thing I didn't like about 7 was Aeris. I couldn't stand that bitch. You have no idea how much love for Sephiroth I have for him all because he killed her...lol

You two... The last post to this topic was back in October. Please, avoid necroposting.

Closed.