Bad Endings Options

[Jens of Zanicuud]

Some times ago I was working on a project (now dismissed - or rather, waiting for my current project completion) which was designed to end badly, with the death of every character in the party (this was however related to the plot).

I've seen quite a few RPG with a default (i.e. not optional) bad ending (FFXIII-2 / KH Birth by Sleep - if we can call their ending bad), so I wonder if it's a taboo to make your game ends in a tragic way, or simply players prefer an happy ending to every game they play, since they are playing not to think to their problems...

What's your point about it?
Would you play/create a game with a tragic ending (not optional - main ending)?

If so, why?

That's a feature I've never found in a RPG Maker game (excluding maybe survival horror...)
If you know some link 'bout that, I'd be pleased to give it a look.

Maybe my project will resurrect, who knows?

Jens

[rewells]

I like feeling accomplished after beating a game. Saving the world is a great feeling, even if it's only make-believe! I cannot think of any commercial RPGs with tragic endings off the top of my head, though the RM game Finding Eden has a pretty tragic ending from what I remember. In that case the tragicness of the ending didn't take away from the game because it's a short, plot-driven game. Most of the God of War games and Zone of the Enders (not RPGs) have pretty tragic endings. With every tragic ending, whether be in game, book or film (but especially in a game), I think there always needs to be some pay-off. If the hero dies, the villian has to die harder.

One thing I DESPISE is when games tease the death of the hero at the end, only for them to ride by on a chocobo and everyone is like "Oh look! They're not dead! Hurray!" To me it just seems like a cheap attempt at suspense for like 5 minutes.

[Jens of Zanicuud]

I've played Finding Eden and remember the ending. I think tat was... touching more than tragic.
Anyway, what I'm going to say it's a truly tragic ending, in which the main characters ACTUALLY dies and there's no scene in which you saw him/her again riding a Chocobo or whatever.

I'll provide some more details. The project I dismissed something like two years ago was called Countdown to the End and was set on Earth's last seven days, before the Sun become a red giant star. Whoever could leave the planet did it, leaving about two billion people on the Earth, condemning them to a sure death. You should have taken control of one nameless character, following a flebile hope tied to the existence of a spaceship, the Ark, which should be fast enough to leave the planet in time. During this search, you should have encountered many characters and, according to your choices, take some of them in the party. However, to sum up, in the end you should have reached a old hangar with the Ark inside, discovering it has no engines and therefore it can't fly. It contains a sort of church, since it is not a spaceship at all, a church were you should have found old books and documents, forgotten by time, which talk about the immortality of souls and the Other World Beyond The Death. After a scene of discourage, when one of the party members commits sucide and other one fall to the floor crying and weeping, the main character decides to believe to these documents, since there's no other way out, and smiles looking at the sun, which is gradually becoming brighter.

This was, in sum, the plot of the project I left before being struck by Tryadine Effect idea. I wondered how would have a player received such ending, since there's no evidence that those books were right and the one sure thing is the player is gonna die.

Do you think an ending like that could be too much rude, for a player who employed hours and hours to reach the game's end?
Or would you appreciate something like that?

I'd like to know sincere opinions about the whole topic.
Bad ending theory is something that fascinated me...

Jens

This post has been edited by Jens of Zanicuud: Jul 28 2012, 03:37 AM

[rewells]

After a scene of discourage, when one of the party members commits sucide and other one fall to the floor crying and weeping, the main character decides to believe to these documents, since there's no other way out, and smiles looking at the sun, which is gradually becoming brighter.

The whole story sounds great. I'd play it (even though I know how it ends ) Seems like games follow different rules than other art because of their interactive nature. I think that plot could work for a game, however, since it sounds like the major theme is the inevitability of death and destruction. If the characters were well developed and got some joy out of the journey itself, I wouldn't feel cheated. Also, a playable character committing suicide has interesting psychological implications for a game; I'd take that a lot harder than if it happened in a film or book. My point about death teasers not working is that they always just seem tacked on with no greater impact on the overall story.

The image of a main character staring into the sun after coming to terms with the fact that their mission has failed and that they are going to die is actually an old literary trope: See the end of Deuteronomy from The Bible and The Epic of Gilgamesh. The "moral" (ugh, I hate that word. Someone should write a post on themes v.s. morals) of these stories is that life should be more than a simple struggle against death - you should enjoy the journey and accomplish great things in life to obtain immortality in the minds of future generations.

Let me muse for a second on the other games I mentioned and why their endings "work", in my opinion.

[Show/Hide] Zone of The Enders spoiler

The plot: A Mars Colony in the future is attacked and a young boy escapes from destruction by finding a fighter robot with high A.I. who introduces herself as Jehuty. The Galactic Federation (or whatever) contacts the boy and asks him the bring the robot to their base. Having nothing better to do with his family dead and all, the boy and Jehuty battle their way across the Universe. The boy and Juhety develop a close relationship, despite Jehuty's inability to understand why the boy is sad about death. The boy, having lost everything, ironically finds comfort in talking with a machine that is designed to kill, but Jehuty seems to develop empathy through talking to him.

The Ending: They arrive at the base and are greeted as heros. In their last conversation, Jehuty dryly reveals that her next mission (which was the whole point of getting her back to base) is a self-destruct/suicide mission. Ouch! So you save the boy, only to lose all he has left. The ending drives home the limits of A.I. and the perplexing question of why people fight so hard to live knowing that they are going to die.

[Show/Hide] God of War series spoiler

The first game begins with a bad ending - the main character jumps off a cliff! The plot of the first game is told through flashbacks, so the player knows what is going to happen, and the fun is learning how he got there.

This five-game series (so far) tells the story of Kratos, a Spartan warrior who sells his soul to the God of War, Ares, to save his village from destruction. He succeeds, only to turn into a war-hungry killing machine. In one of his raids, Ares tricks Kratos into killing his daughter and his wife. Kratos goes nuts, swears off Ares, and dedicates his life to serving Athena, who promises to help him get revenge on Ares and be forgiven for his sins. He finally fights and kills Ares, only to realize that he feels no better and the memories of his past still haunt him. So he climbs Mt. Olympus and hurls himself off of it - only for Athena to drag him back up and tell him that Ares needs a replacement, and she has chosen him to be the new God of War. Themes: the pointlessness of revenge, the horrors of war, the importance of learning to forgive yourself rather than depending on forgiveness from others; the unfairness of the gods and life in general.

So that's the first God of War...I won't even spoil the rest of the series because the plot is so good you should just play them, or at least watch all of the cutscenes from each game (they're all on Youtube). Despite Kratos being a ruthless killer who tears the head off of anyone he sees, I really became attached to him, and his every action makes sense in the context of the story. I think these games are the best written I ever ever played and would recommend them to everyone.

[Show/Hide] And finally, Shin Megami: Devil Survivor spoilers

Sounds similar to the beginning of your plot, in that the characters know the world is going to end within a week. The main character has a special power to see people's "death clock", which shows how many days they are going to live, and many people's are less than 7. He and the friends he meets during the chaos find that their actions are able to change people's death-clock, and they try to save the people who are going to die that day and eventually try to save the world. There are multiple endings depending on the player's choices throughout the game (in true Shin Megami style), and the default one is the "everyone dies" ending. Honestly I was pretty pissed when I got that ending first time around, but knowing that it was my fault for my actions, I could only blame myself and try again to save the world. Themes: the perseverance to survive even when you know death is inevitable; the power of tragedy to bring people together; the importance of seemingly small decisions

So again, I emphasize, if an "everyone dies" ending adds relevance to the theme, that can be really powerful. But if it's just thrown in for the sake of surprise, it pisses me off.