The First Layer, In-depth Options

[MEands]

Hey so I know I'm interrupting the variable discussion, but I just had a small idea.

We should change the "start game" text at the beginning of the game to "Join Adventure" to make it seem more like an MMO.

[Sparrowsmith]

Hey so I know I'm interrupting the variable discussion, but I just had a small idea.

We should change the "start game" text at the beginning of the game to "Join Adventure" to make it seem more like an MMO.

I'm okay with this.

As for the variable stuff, I'm really not sure how to event that. Might take another look at it later, but I don't know if I'm following.

[MEands]

So do you think we should figure out the plot of layer one? Like, what is the boss they're going to fight and all that?

EDIT: nvm, wrong thread. Thanks for the correction shinyjiggly

This post has been edited by MEands: Jun 18 2012, 08:55 PM

[shinyjiggly]

If I remember correctly, this thread is for the more technical aspects of layer 1 (like that password thingie that's been getting worked on lately). A couple pages back, if I remember correctly, Kaust mentioned that the plot things, even ones specifically for layer one, have to go into the plot thread.

[various layer one plot possibilities here]
...Anyways, these points are not up for discussion here, please go to the Plot thread for any variations you'd like to see on what I just posted....

Please forgive me if I am misusing this partial quote or accused of mini-modding (contrary to popular belief, green staff members have no actual moderating powers, not that I want to be burdened with the task of smiting the wicked for eternity).
I'm only trying to help keep this place tidy.

[Sparrowsmith]

Okay, I gave the variable stuff another look, makes perfect sense now.
My only concern is how to input letters.

Also, the 7907 prime number in mine is a security code. It prevents the player trying to level themselves up artificially. As only 1 in 7907 passwords are valid. Not using a prime number will give false positives, and giving a low number is too easy to crack.
We could use a significantly lower password (587 or 389)
basically any number on this list http://primes.utm.edu/lists/small/1000.txt so long as its digits are different enough to give unpredictable passwords, high enough not to be exploitable, and low enough to allow a range of 5-10 levels of experience increase.

[bulmabriefs144]

Okay, I'll show what I mean.

The actual output when first calculating is \v[01]ff\v[02]Z\v[03]z\v[04]a.

The input screen goes one at a time like this:

__ff__Z__z__a
Input number, and as you add the numbers it is:

\v[01]ff__Z__z__a
\v[01]ff\v[02]Z__z__a
\v[01]ff\v[02]Z\v[03]z__a
And finally,
\v[01]ff\v[02]Z\v[03]z\v[04]a.

So it looks like you're filling in blanks. The only real problem is the first number might be over five digits. You're basically using variables to subtract from a total until there's nothing left, and that value is the stored in about four (or five, if that turns out to be still too big) variables.

9999 - 256- 256- 256- 256- 256- 256- 256... (etc, until it reaches 255 or less), then the system moves on to the next one, subtracting until there's less than that, etc, until there's zero.

Since, as I say the thing is too large, you might add that prime number in there first as something like $ (usually code for a protected symbol, I'm told), this way making it 9999-7907 (only needs once) -256 -256... (many less times than before) followed by 52, 26, and 1.

___$__ff__Z__z__a. The password counter is four digits for the first number or something but because of the oddly large number it might need only 3 digits, and dismiss anything 1000 or over as an error, just as it dismisses the later numbers that are over the number before them (if there are 30+ instances of 256 subtractions, logically at least one would get taken out as 7907, since that's more than 7907)...

This post has been edited by bulmabriefs144: Jun 21 2012, 04:59 AM

[Sparrowsmith]

Would that not require multiple variable inputs?

I see it's worth, but I'm having trouble seeing the RM application. A screenshot or demo could help (if you haven't already provided one, I'm not always completely up to date on these things).

[bulmabriefs144]

Yea it would. But it'd provide an exact number, while having it complicated enough that someone couldn't just fake it.

I'll work on something of the sort. Okay, I've done the output (elected against loop, since it tends to be slow with multiple variable sequences, so I used labels instead).



Local event. You can make this a parallel process event, as long as it doesn't repeat.



Page 1



So, then after clicking on the event, it says processing a bunch of times (mainly just to show it's loading and not frozen), and then says this.



The number was 7200. (It seems to be one off for some reason, but that's close enough. It probably didn't run the last part)

I think the input is done through simple multiplication and addition. You input the number, multiply it by the numbers the thing is supposed to represent, and do the total (then add 1 because of the glitch). I'll try the other process on another engine.

Works! Here's the import code for VX Ace from 2003.(If you don't have, just input each number apart from the FF or whatever, multiple it by the constants, add each to the total and add one). You'll get 7200 exactly.

This post has been edited by bulmabriefs144: Jun 25 2012, 08:28 AM

Attached File(s)

 PasswordImport.zip ( 1.32MB ) Number of downloads: 0

 

[Sparrowsmith]

I'll check it out when I have some time free (just popping on at the moment).

Just a few questions:
What happens if someone makes up a password?
1$26ff5Z6a
for example.
So far as I can tell, it would be a valid password. It would be easy enough for me to finish game [x] get a password, and then level myself up a pretty sum for the next game just by experimenting with the numbers.

[MEands]

The game is about video games and about messing with the logic of games.
If the player figures out how to do that, they're understanding the game.

[Kaust]

I'll check it out when I have some time free (just popping on at the moment).

Just a few questions:
What happens if someone makes up a password?
1$26ff5Z6a
for example.
So far as I can tell, it would be a valid password. It would be easy enough for me to finish game [x] get a password, and then level myself up a pretty sum for the next game just by experimenting with the numbers.

...Why would someone do that though?
I say let it be abusable, only ruins the game for them.
Besides right now we have a whole lot of numbers to guard a game that we do not have...

[Sparrowsmith]

Very valid point Kaust.

We have several methods we can use for password encryption, we can decide which one later.

Here's a change of conversation:
How many characters will we have?
Two are outside the game, and I think a minimum of four within it.
The two we won't need to cover until layer 2, so the question is do we have four (or even more) in layer 1?

We'll definitely need a tank (likely the main character, but we can subvert this)
We'll definitely need a healer
We should have a buffer or debuffer or both (strengthens allies/weakens enemies)
Possibly a character with overpowered attacks, but needs to charge*
A thief would be pretty much useless layer 1, but useful in layer 2 (save the thief for one of the two not playing?)

We want a varied a battle system as possible, lots of tactics, lets talk about how to do this.
Seems like we're slowing down lately, let's pick up the pace.

*Parallel Process sets their mana to 0, but in battle they can charge it and select a variety of immensely powerful attacks

[Kaust]

Some sort of skill tree system for customization? So they could be aggressive/passive types of each class. Buffer or Healer type (should probably give everyone and individual buff or two so it would look like they would be able to function soloing), 2 characters could be the same class with the choice between Power, Tank or AtkSpd builds. Damage black mage type or debuffing black mage type, and so on.

Skills require certain stats so they have to adhere to a certain build but with some freedom for customizable playstyle.

[MEands]

I think a mage would be necessary for the MMO atmosphere.

We should have a Tank, a healer, maybe someone with ranged attacks?

[bulmabriefs144]

I'll check it out when I have some time free (just popping on at the moment).

Just a few questions:
What happens if someone makes up a password?
1$26ff5Z6a
for example.
So far as I can tell, it would be a valid password. It would be easy enough for me to finish game [x] get a password, and then level myself up a pretty sum for the next game just by experimenting with the numbers.

It would work for them. If they're brilliant enough to milk the system, they deserve whatever they can get. But to safeguard it, we could have something like this.

(Blank Conditions, Page 1)

Condition GameEntered ON
...(See Below)
Else

Msg: Saving current game data.\|.\|.\|\^
Call: Store Info (saves all major stat variables so if you need to work with them after you reload)
Switch GameEntered ON
Save Menu
Choice: Save/Load
If Save
Msg: Be sure to save the videogame files in a different file than your main game.
Save Menu
Return to Title
If Load
End Event Processing

(GameEntered ON) --> This must go on the same page, BEFORE the else, NOT on a separate page. If you make a new page, the code will switch to it (skipping everything else) which is a generally bad idea.

This is basically the code entering part, followed by a Switch GameEntered ON and EndEventProcessing. Presumably only people who have entered the game and come back can enter the password, after which it resets to the OFF position. But that's not exactly what happens. It's possible to exploit this, by simply choosing the load option. Solution? Before the message about saving current data, have some sort of required item like a Game Card, which is either somewhat expensive or requires a boss fight to claim.That still allows people to simply exit out and enter whatever code they feel like (so long as none of these numbers is too high), but it limited the probability of milking this.

This post has been edited by bulmabriefs144: Jun 28 2012, 11:55 PM

[Sparrowsmith]

I think we can leave this where it is for now, the password systems I mean.
The point is we can do it, and we can trial run everything later, right now we need to get working on some game mechanics.

I think a problem that games have is not including enough attacks for 'tank' characters.
Online games usually give them 'aggro' attacks, or ways to take damage for teammates, so we should try and do this. That means we'll need a battle system that can handle aggro and protection.

[bulmabriefs144]

Yeah, how would we even do that though? Making them take damage for party members?

The only thing I can think of involves a sort of after-image, where you make it look like party members are still there, but they're not. The enemy attacks the tank instead. That, or it turns on a switch that makes "attack" really be a custom attack that does randomized damage (I can lend my random damage code) to a specific target.

[Sparrowsmith]

Battle eventing isn't my strong suit, but I could take a swing at it.

I think we should start from what we want to see (within reason) and then strive for it. Whatever we succeed in doing sticks.
At the very least I'm sure it could be scripted.

We still have so much to address.
Should we make up a 'lore' for layer 1?

[Kaust]

Depends on whether or not they would be RPers, and whether thats an important part of their character. A lot of mmos have a very limited lore because your the hero, if you get what I mean (even though it means everyone's the hero...), the time of creating lore, of being a legend, is the present. If we are to include one I don't think we need a very profound one, just something to match the environment (town/castle); barren ground= some blight set by the gods, towns suffering from raiders, etc. And just have a couple of NPCs say something relevant (maybe also have the quest based around it as well). Just by very shallowly touching upon it here and there will make it appear like it isnt a half-assed attempt but ideally they will be swept up in the real story.

I think a problem that games have is not including enough attacks for 'tank' characters.

If you were to do this:

Some sort of skill tree system for customization? So they could be aggressive/passive types of each class. Buffer or Healer type (should probably give everyone and individual buff or two so it would look like they would be able to function soloing), 2 characters could be the same class with the choice between Power, Tank or AtkSpd builds. Damage black mage type or debuffing black mage type, and so on.

Skills require certain stats so they have to adhere to a certain build but with some freedom for customizable playstyle.

then they would be able to access the lower levelled more aggressive abilities of the 'meleer' (the power, tank and aspd guy).

Think of it like this:
 Untitled.png ( 35.09K ) Number of downloads: 12


First tier abilities would be weak but wouldn't cost many points. As tiers increase more points are required to unlock stronger moves (which they would not be able to aquire if they were evenly distributing points). I mention the combined proficiencies thing to prevent it looking as 2-dimensional as I laid it out (in other words, it would seem like the player has the ability to greatly customise this one class rather than noticing we were, in a sense, combining three).

[shinyjiggly]

Might as well.

Town of Jararra founder's tale:

There was once a man known as "The Windswept one", said to have sold himself into slavery under the (insert somewhat powerful but relatively spread-out group here) in order to save his family.
On the way to the place where he would be put to work, the caravan was interrupted by a young and innocent looking figure in the middle of the road, or so it seemed. The henchmen were transfixed by its (insert magical action here), rendering them immobile. The few in the back who weren't affected ran up to the front of the caravan to see what the hold-up was. To their surprise, there was nobody there, and the henchmen were staring mindlessly at that particular nothing. Then, a soft but cruel voice filled their minds with terror. "(insert gut-wrenching verbiage here)," said the figure, still invisible to some.
With that, the henchmen exploded in some deadly method, leaving only the slaves tied up in the carts intact. But before they could escape, the figure used some sort of magic to teleport them to the nearly inescapable bottom of a very large ravine. There was no current way to escape, but there were plenty of supplies and natural resources available to them.
The Windswept one took the role of the leader of the group, being kind and just to his company. In time, they built a small town into the walls of the ravine and built many bridges. They developed ways of farming that took advantage of the vertical space.

At some point they did manage to reconnect with the surface, but this would only happen in two generation's time. Each year there is a festival commemorating the day when this happened.

Some say that you can still see the figure wandering about in Jararra, crossing the numerous bridges back and forth endlessly though the night, though nobody is quite sure why. Nobody's ever been close enough to it to glean any answers from it and lived to tell the tale. A very small amount of townsfolk have been said to have disappeared by the means of the figure, though its hard to say if the figure was even involved at times.


The ambiguity of some parts are supposed to be changed depending on who tells the story, due to it being passed down through oral tradition. Not everyone in Jararra believes it, but they still consider it an important thing that the further generations know this tale. There are quite a few other assorted side-stories about the Windswept one and/or the figure, but many of them contradict each other, leaving most of them into question.

EDIT: is this the wrong kind of lore?