V~e, Update: Fixes Options

[nijal]

Leaving the character at 1HP was my way of trying to punish the player, because later on with gathering the groceries for your father I had to figure out how to punish a player if they decided to not buy what he asks for. However all of that gets ignored when you could sleep in your own bed.

[nijal]

For those who are playing the demo or either has stopped; where did you get up to?

[nijal]

I'm trying to make the intro better, based on many comments.
I want to ask to those who have a problem with the demo, what should I change?

These are the few problems pointed out to me:
1. Too many fetch-quests
2. Back tracking
3. A lack of story
4. Battles
5. Mapping
(all of which are at the intro except for battles, since it is throughout the game)

I focused on making this game for both people who are and are not avid rpg players.

I want to make it easier for people to beat the demo and then share their opinions with me, so I want to know what should I do.

[Magical_RuNE_Kni...]

I focused on making this game for both people who are and are not avid rpg players.

I want to make it easier for people to beat the demo and then share their opinions with me, so I want to know what should I do.

i don't really play rpgs much, but.. well, i guess i think u might want to be more descriptive with what the story says. It doesn't really explain what the game is about; like, what the plot is. 'v'
Maybe... changing the font of the main page too..? it's kind of hard to read.

If u want to target people who aren't avid rpg players btw, it might be a good idea to do some research on what sells to them. Horror/thrillers and humour can be popular, i like them anyways lol.

[nijal]

I don't want to be too descriptive with the plot, because I feel that I might ruin some people's experience with the game.
If I gave too much away, then some people might just go through the game already knowing what to expect.

The plot of the game is that the entire game takes place in a fantasy version of real life, which includes a few real life issues like dealing with homophobia and so on. Then the game goes into imaginative extremes. For example, the main character goes through his own mental extremes by altering the world that's around him. The interesting part about this is that the alterations are subtle.

This may be spoiling the story a bit, but the main character becomes a king. To some people this may be surprising and a bit outrageous, because, well, they have some negative opinions about him.

The game does have a ton of elements that are not typical rpg elements and there is plenty of humor.

I'll consider changing the font-face.

[Magical_RuNE_Kni...]

I don't want to be too descriptive with the plot, because I feel that I might ruin some people's experience with the game.
If I gave too much away, then some people might just go through the game already knowing what to expect.

The plot of the game is that the entire game takes place in a fantasy version of real life, which includes a few real life issues like dealing with homophobia and so on. Then the game goes into imaginative extremes. For example, the main character goes through his own mental extremes by altering the world that's around him. The interesting part about this is that the alterations are subtle.

Well... I mean, u don't have to necessarily reveal the plot. Just be kind of more descriptive, like... Like a book. 'v' like books don't say stuff like 'this is a book dealing with psychological aspects' if u know what I mean? Do u like something like "person x was an ordinary kid. Until one day... __"? Anyway, just a suggestion, but it's ur game, so it's cool.

[nijal]

With minimal description I currently have for the plot/story and with everything else I gave, would anyone be interested in trying out the demo?

[Silversnake]

I'm trying to make the intro better, based on many comments.
I want to ask to those who have a problem with the demo, what should I change?

These are the few problems pointed out to me:
1. Too many fetch-quests
2. Back tracking
3. A lack of story
4. Battles
5. Mapping
(all of which are at the intro except for battles, since it is throughout the game)

I focused on making this game for both people who are and are not avid rpg players.

I want to make it easier for people to beat the demo and then share their opinions with me, so I want to know what should I do.

I would change #1,4,and 5. I did not see much back tracking in the game. Lack of story is just because of so many fetch quests and battles taking forever to actually get to the story. So fix those I believe that fix's number 3. I would refine some things in the story while you are changing stuff though.

[nijal]

Alright, I have made many updates to the game if you haven't noticed the list of them on the first page.
The fetch quests at the beginning, I've decided that I cannot change them because each one has their own significance.
Let me go through them:
1. Your Father Most people wouldn't know that you can interact with shelves or any other inanimate object until they've taken on this job. Going further into how it impacts a player. When you go to buy groceries; your memory, knowledge, and morals are tested. For example, most people would think that Mastic is an ingredient and most people wouldn't know that you have options when buying the groceries.
2. Trauma Lady Her fetch quest is used to introduce you to her, because she will be seen again. You might forget her by the second time you meet her, but at least she wouldn't be a random surprise, just an amazing surprise on her part.

I will not change my style of mapping. I will however fix anything that bothers people. Like when my friend told me to "fix those damn trees."
I stay away from making my maps dirty or detailed, because everyone else can do that.
It gets annoying to hear that the look of my maps bother you more than if they are a pain to get around; it's just that they are not your standard or the standard of detail. My maps look fine and work fine. I'll also add detail when I choose.
My style is unique and it works for me and I don't want to spend a ton of time making my maps look amazing instead of trying to get the gameplay and story to work around them.

Overall, I have made changes to the game, which would include more story.

This post has been edited by nijal: Jun 13 2012, 11:27 PM

[thatbennyguy]

1. Your Father Most people wouldn't know that you can interact with shelves or any other inanimate object until they've taken on this job.

Most people do, especially those who play RPG Maker games. In fact it's almost a necessity to be able to search chests, cupboards and other items. You may be able to give a visual cue to hint that the player can take from the cupboard, but the player should know already (unless you're catering to a complete beginner, which you shouldn't be).

When you go to buy groceries; your memory, knowledge, and morals are tested. For example, most people would think that Mastic is an ingredient and most people wouldn't know that you have options when buying the groceries.

I think you mistake testing the player's knowledge to testing the player's patience. If a player doesn't know that Mastic is not an ingredient (I certainly didn't), you shouldn't punish the player for that. It should be very clear what the player needs to do at almost every point in the game, unless you're going for an open-ended feel, in which you need to walk the tightrope more carefully.

I will not change my style of mapping. I will however fix anything that bothers people. Like when my friend told me to "fix those damn trees."

Your maps look fine, especially for the RTP. They're actually really good, and I like the inventiveness of the shops.

It gets annoying to hear that the look of my maps bother you more than if they are a pain to get around; it's just that they are not your standard or the standard of detail.

Well, they are a little bit of a pain, especially when you have to walk down long corridors. Generally players don't like corridors, because they restrict the feeling of freedom. Have some areas where people can walk around a bit, or at least make the walking distance a bit shorter between houses.

Overall, I have made changes to the game, which would include more story.

I actually didn't mind the story. I just want to know more about the characters, that's all. What are their ambitions, what are their goals, etc. early on in the game. If I can invest myself in the main characters, then I will have the drive to keep playing and enjoy your game.

Overall, V~e is a game with a lot of potential, and you should be proud. I'm just pointing out little bits here and there that you could work on to make the finished title even better. It's looking good so far, keep up the good work! (I might work on a new and better support bar soon )

[nijal]

Yes, many people who have played RPG Maker games would be used to interacting with objects, but people that don't (like my friends that tested the game in front of me) wouldn't know until they've gone through the first job. Also, not all RPG games allow players to interact with objects.
When I made the game, I considered people who are beginners and those that aren't. I thought, "what if a person is just starting to play RPGs and they chose mine to begin with." That's why the intro is as it is now.

Patience is the better word to use. The player isn't punished for thinking something are available when they are not.
Sometimes I just want the player to say, "oh, okay." However, most of the time it's just hard to really know how to impact/influence a player when many people didn't consider wasting the father's money. The game is open-ended, with many directions to guide you along the way.
There's a choice system and morality system, so anything can happen.

Thank you about complementing my shop inventiveness. My friend doesn't like it, because he thinks it would become very tedious.

For me, I thought that making giant areas would be pointless, since the player can't even move in eight directions.
Even though my maps are like corridors in a sense; there are some maps that are open.
So I have maps that are narrow and maps that are open. The maps will be more open after where the demo ends, so narrowness would not exist throughout the entire full game.

There are plenty of moments in the game where each character would tell you about themselves.

I've released a newer version of the demo that includes all the updates I listed on the first page.

[amerk]

I actually go in with the mindset to search everywhere, but some sort of indicator (maybe a small one at the beginning to indicate the need for this) should be used, because for just as many games that do interact with inanimate objects, there are plenty of games that don't, and often times I'm wasting time searching everywhere for nothing. It's especially annoying when you search and search and get nothing, and you think searching isn't required, and then that one random time you do search an hour later you discover something. There should be consistency to the way searching and interacting is handled.

A simple method could having the father ask the son to retrieve an important item from one of the shelves, say a flask, but he can't remember which shelf it is. Drop random items on the shelves (like herbs or gold) that the player can pick up as he is searching for the correct shelf with the flask. If that doesn't tell the player to search everywhere, nothing will.

[nijal]

Actually, the father tells you exactly where to search, basically which house to search.
When you go to the only bookshelf that's there, an indicator pops up.

I don't use indicators for everything that a players can interact with. I just use them in places that most people might need help finding/discovering.
I use a combination of using indicators and not using indicators. I want players to explore and I'll help them when needed.

[Silversnake]

I will not change my style of mapping. I will however fix anything that bothers people. Like when my friend told me to "fix those damn trees."
I stay away from making my maps dirty or detailed, because everyone else can do that.
It gets annoying to hear that the look of my maps bother you more than if they are a pain to get around; it's just that they are not your standard or the standard of detail. My maps look fine and work fine. I'll also add detail when I choose.
My style is unique and it works for me and I don't want to spend a ton of time making my maps look amazing instead of trying to get the gameplay and story to work around them.

Why did you put this up as one of the options to change then? I understand that just me voting for it does not mean you have to change it since others will vote. But why turn it down like that when you put that as a choice?
I may not like your houses but I've played other games that do that as well and I don't complain. I can deal with 1 tile houses it doesn't ruin the game for me. The real problem is just trees in straight lines everywhere and being in a corrider the whole time. Very start of the game your just in between a straight line of trees running from house to house. Keep the houses the way you like it but being restricted in movement isn't fun. I just had a dude complain about corriders in my game and I have more space then you do. People like the freedom to move around and not just follow a 1 tile road.

My style is unique and it works for me and I don't want to spend a ton of time making my maps look amazing instead of trying to get the gameplay and story to work around them.

Good to be unique I like unique. You saying you do not want to spend a ton of time on making your maps good just comes off as laziness. I understand you want your gameplay and story to be your main focus. Spending more times on your maps will just make the experiance even better for the player. My first reaction when playing your game when I saw intro I was like what is going on? That was the part with the This is my world saying in an empty ocean background. Then my next impression was ok I have to go to school cool! Something about going to school in a game makes me happy lol weird I know. Like ff8 starting out in the garden(Military school) I like that kinda stuff. Then I get outside my house and was like what the hell! Your screenshots that you show of your game on your front page totally deceived me. I really liked those screenshots and yes they are in the game but that is not how most of your mapping is. Most of it is trees and 1 tile paths.\
Then It turned into ok go do this. I was fine at first but then it kept turning into go home talk to dad. Go to this house get book for dad. Go back to dads house. Go to this place get ingrediants. So on and so on. Lotta running back and forth. At that point I would normally stop playing the
demo but you wanted feedback at that time so I kept going. I actually liked part of your game later on once it finally got going. The mapping besides some towns didn't get better though. Story got better and quests actually meant something. Then it turned into a Grind fest. Why I eventually stopped playing.
Glad you fixed some of the other stuff in your game Gl.

This post has been edited by Silversnake: Jun 14 2012, 07:37 PM

[Kimidori]

Yes, many people who have played RPG Maker games would be used to interacting with objects, but people that don't (like my friends that tested the game in front of me) wouldn't know until they've gone through the first job. Also, not all RPG games allow players to interact with objects.
When I made the game, I considered people who are beginners and those that aren't. I thought, "what if a person is just starting to play RPGs and they chose mine to begin with." That's why the intro is as it is now.

seriously, everyone play a rpg maker game probably play a ton of jrpg already, if i were to start playing RPG, i would start with millions-budgeted, commerial game instead of an amateur indie game. so make the game with the mindset that most people here are rpg veterans instead of beginners. and as a rpg veteran, i would try to interact with everything in the map

[nijal]

I listed the mapping issue to see whether there was more for me to fix than the detail, but when I realized that it was just about the detail, I decided to not change anything. The first town was meant to be straight forward of teaching you the basics and you then trying to leave.
I understand that people want freedom and detail in their maps, but for this VX project, I just wanted to do something different. In a XP project I was working on, I spent more time creating large maps that were fully dirty/detailed and I created 100+ maps with most of the them being empty.
So for this project I focused less on making them fully dirty/detailed and instead focused more on having the maps work around the story and gameplay, while at the same time make them at least visually appealing. The corridor style works for me, because it makes it easier to handle events. Though the corridor style will not be prominent throughout the entire game.

It's wrong to make a RPG game thinking that everyone is a veteran, because I would be limiting my audience.

[Silversnake]

Seems to me you just want to make the game the way you want to. So make it that way. Why you ask for feedback is beyond me. You ask for suggestions and instead of saying sure I'll think about it you say no I'm not doing it like that. You turn down almost every single suggestion people give you. I've read peoples comments on this forum and other ones.

I'm done with anything involving this game from now on.

[amerk]

The feedback is intended to help the developer, but ultimately it is their decision whether or not to accept it. Let's continue to offer what feedback is valid, but please refrain from badgering the developer for his choices.

Edit: So I decided to give this a bit. The mapping certainly is different, and to be honest I kind of liked the style of mapping for the town and castle exterior. It's the inner dwelling and the world map I felt that needed a facelift. The main issue I had with this game was trying to figure out the purpose of the game. Mind you, I only played up to the castle, but still...

There's hardly any story at all. You can't leave town because the man guarding your path tells you to visit the weapon shop and buy something (why does he even care if I'm equipped or not?). The weapon shop needs money to create a new weapon. You have to go around town and help everybody with their problems to earn just enough money to buy the weapon. Once you buy the weapon, the man blocking the exit mysteriously vanishes and you can proceed to the castle. But why do you even need to leave town to begin with? I vaguely recall needing to visit with the president about not wanting to join up in some army of sorts, but all that was lost by the time I was done with every fetch quest the town had.

And then... I have a stick for a weapon and nothing else until I buy the scimitar. But I have no armor. Getting to the castle is a death match. If you get sucked into battle with two enemies, consider yourself cooked, since they'll kill you in about 3 or 4 hits. And it's not like I can buy potions since I don't have any money. After all I had to spend it on the weapon seller. Even getting into a battle with a single enemy nearly left me for dead by the end of it.

So my advice... work on the story and game play balance.

[nijal]

My main problem with receiving suggestions is that I don't say, "I tried that, but it didn't work for me."
Instead I just say that I'm choosing another route. I ask for feedback to see what I should do for the rest of the game after continuing from where the demo ends. It's true that in some cases I would have to be forced to make changes, because sometimes I fear changing stuff too much.
As shown, I have made changes that many people have recommended and suggested to me.

It doesn't seem as if you picked up Jaquilyn. If you had her in your party, she would have let you know that they guy was imaginary, basically he was never there. Though I'll just remove him and allow the player to just leave after school is done.
I might as well make the fetch quest optional too. I thought about doing this, but from seeing what you've said, I might as well do so.

To let you know, you get free armor and plenty of money to spend at the beginning.
You would just have to make choices the right to do so.

This post has been edited by nijal: Jun 15 2012, 09:58 PM