Puzzle Discussion, What makes a good puzzle? Options

[MEands]

I absolutely love solving puzzles in video games, but when it comes to the "go right and get the key to go left and get the key to go up" then I get frustrated. I feel happy when the answer to a puzzle was clearly sitting in front of you, but you were unable to see it without further examination.

I want to know what everyone thinks makes a good puzzle, and if you're in a really creative mood, then just write out an entire plan for a map's puzzle.

[Kaust]

Wrong, you dont sound like you take the slightest bit of interest in what the player wants. I mean, I like RM because I like RM, but wtf is the point if no-one but me wants to play what I made?

If I am to develop assuming that the player does not want to think, I definitely will not take interest in what the player wants.

To say that RPG players are not the bit interested in having to actually think is essentially ignoring those that actually do wish to challenge themselves mentally. It is an insult to those that don't identify themselves with the supposed majority.

Almost entirely irrelevant, its clear very few users here have commercial aspirations. These guys care about 'driving people away' because that should be a very real concern for every developer.

Yes, cause obviously, RPG players don't look for puzzles.

And it is absolute arrogance to name yourself the voice of the silent minority, even more so for a minority of brilliance. Let me guess, these incredibly intelligent folks dont know the words to speak for themselves? Or perhaps you're so brilliant that you simply understand them better than themselves?

Btw, the next time you're struggling to pick a point or two to make some barely coherent argument, just drop it. I said there was not only room for but a place for puzzles in rpgs...who exactly are you arguing with?