Ideas for story, Post, discuss, debate on plot lines Options

[Kaust]

1)That is a problem we're gonna face. Layer 1 is deliberately your standard (online?) RPG. It shouldn't really be anything special, which means the odds of getting people to come back for each next chapter only really works if we keep them intrigued, but we have to keep them intrigued without accidentally giving away any secrets.

2)Instead, one of the programmers will mention that he found a text document hidden within the game folder to the other programmer, he then proceeds to read said text document, but we don't see what's written there, he just freaks out a little.
BUT, if the player goes into the folder where the game is (the actually game that they download off of RRR) and change their folder settings to look for hidden folders, then boom, there it is, hidden inside a folder, a text document with the programmer's name on it.

3)I'll also try to write out another plot synopsis like I did before at some point either today or tomorrow, but there's still a lot of stuff we need to work out, and I don't want to assume complete control over the story

1-I think that may be a novel enough beginning itself. Its not like you get a lot of games pretending to be mmos, it'll be a great way to attract mmo fans. Thats what got me into .Hack anyways, if its done well I dont see a problem, all tales take a little time to kick off. The only problem I see with this is that most intros are world-building, whereas we have several worlds to build and the first one we establish is quickly revealed to be ersatz.I guess I mean it'll seem sweeping and unstructured for a bit.
2-That is exactly what I was talking about before with webpages and stuff. Want a meta game? then take it beyond rpgmaker, physically as well as plotwise.
3-Much appreciated. I think you've got the best handle on this. Most the ideas have been batted around by you and Bulma anyways so feel free to take some liberties =]

[Sparrowsmith]

1-I think that may be a novel enough beginning itself. Its not like you get a lot of games pretending to be mmos, it'll be a great way to attract mmo fans. Thats what got me into .Hack anyways, if its done well I dont see a problem, all tales take a little time to kick off. The only problem I see with this is that most intros are world-building, whereas we have several worlds to build and the first one we establish is quickly revealed to be ersatz.I guess I mean it'll seem sweeping and unstructured for a bit.
2-That is exactly what I was talking about before with webpages and stuff. Want a meta game? then take it beyond rpgmaker, physically as well as plotwise.
3-Much appreciated. I think you've got the best handle on this. Most the ideas have been batted around by you and Bulma anyways so feel free to take some liberties =]

1-Exactly. Once the ball gets rolling, we'll be beating off players with a stick, but those first two installments or so are going to seem rather shaky. I can guarantee we'll have some veteran game-makers telling us each little flaw. It's only once the game develops that we'll get them to shut up . If we release the installments one at a time, I think we should try to release the first two or three at once, or within a short period of time. That way anyone who plays through to the reveal that is Layer 2 can tell any other critics to cool. I'm kinda worried that, if the first two installments flop, then the whole project could come apart at the seems
2-Definitely. We don't need to go too far above and beyond, just enough that challenges the gamers. The occasional hidden file in the project folders. Maybe some signature references (In game: "You learn a lot from someone's signature" then in one of our signatures, or all of them, is a cryptic little message of some kind.) stuff like that. I'm definitely behind it.
3-I certainly have the best handle on my idea, but I'm not sure if everyone is on the same page just yet. I'm still not sure exactly how many layers we're making it. In my version of the plot there's three definitive layers, with a fourth one acknowledged in the programmer's conversation, and possibly a single fourth layer entry when the character finds his comatose body (if we go with this idea), but that doesn't mean everyone agrees with that, and it certainly doesn't mean it's the best option
So yeah, I think we have a long way ahead of us yet. I'd say I only have the most ideas on the table because I have some idea of how professional writing works. Not enough that I'd feel confident explaining it, or cocky enough to go into detail why but some, and I like to practice it.

This post either had too many or too few smilies...

[bulmabriefs144]

I'd rather the title be more about the game than the community, just to make it seem more like a serious project. We can stick an honourary prefix in there like "RRR Presents:" but I think the title should be standalone.
How about simply "Matroyshka"? It'll be a heads up to how the story will pan out as well as make players more likely to look out for the russian dolls and their impact on the worlds (their still enemies right?).

How about this? Someone alter this:

so it says Presents rather than Community. Then we have that the default picture with a little work, and slap on Part One: (whatever title we want for each game). For instance, Part 2 might be Matroyshka, Part 1 might be The World (reference to hack sign), Part 3 might be I dunno The Rise of The Programmers, etcetera. I think Sailerius had a similar approach with Vacant Sky (but with different opening graphics). The hue of the graphic might change subtly too, getting more towards red and black as time goes on and things get darker in the story. That saves us some energy on thinking about that, and leaves it more open to have many different titles, since each part potentially has a different one. And yea, any parts that have a logo screen (VX Ace doesn't seem to, in its natural form) can call it by Project Matroyshka.

On to the other posts...

I think I had technically about 5 layers in theory, but only four playable in the general sense.
1- Old Style RPG
2- Gamers at a net cafe or something
3- Programmers (oddly programming not only the RPG but the lives of the gamers)
4- Player wakes up from a dream (and starts playing a game about all this, possibly showing some clips from the other layers). Action may go on in his layer too though.
----------------
5- Completely Meta (looking at you outside the screen at the end, stuff like that, possibly implying that there's a layer 6+ by messing with the audience's heads)

As for the first game being boring, this is a problem, but two things can help. Keep it weird (VX sprites in a non-VX game with XP or something battle sprites helps) and funny (we should research cliches of the older rpgs and try to parody them or something), and focus heavily on character development (which based on what we're drafting should already be in the plan). I couldn't put Forever's End down and I am still waiting for the sequel because all the characters were interesting.

[ShanattoGunner]

I'd rather the title be more about the game than the community, just to make it seem more like a serious project. We can stick an honourary prefix in there like "RRR Presents:" but I think the title should be standalone.
How about simply "Matroyshka"? It'll be a heads up to how the story will pan out as well as make players more likely to look out for the russian dolls and their impact on the worlds (their still enemies right?).

How about this? Someone alter this:

so it says Presents rather than Community. Then we have that the default picture with a little work, and slap on Part One: (whatever title we want for each game). For instance, Part 2 might be Matroyshka, Part 1 might be The World (reference to hack sign), Part 3 might be I dunno The Rise of The Programmers, etcetera. I think Sailerius had a similar approach with Vacant Sky (but with different opening graphics). The hue of the graphic might change subtly too, getting more towards red and black as time goes on and things get darker in the story. That saves us some energy on thinking about that, and leaves it more open to have many different titles, since each part potentially has a different one. And yea, any parts that have a logo screen (VX Ace doesn't seem to, in its natural form) can call it by Project Matroyshka.

On to the other posts...

I think I had technically about 5 layers in theory, but only four playable in the general sense.
1- Old Style RPG
2- Gamers at a net cafe or something
3- Programmers (oddly programming not only the RPG but the lives of the gamers)
4- Player wakes up from a dream (and starts playing a game about all this, possibly showing some clips from the other layers). Action may go on in his layer too though.
----------------
5- Completely Meta (looking at you outside the screen at the end, stuff like that, possibly implying that there's a layer 6+ by messing with the audience's heads)

As for the first game being boring, this is a problem, but two things can help. Keep it weird (VX sprites in a non-VX game with XP or something battle sprites helps) and funny (we should research cliches of the older rpgs and try to parody them or something), and focus heavily on character development (which based on what we're drafting should already be in the plan). I couldn't put Forever's End down and I am still waiting for the sequel because all the characters were interesting.

Can someone help get up to date so I can sound smart and help with something.

[MEands]

You shouldn't quote something that big.
I think right now we're still deciding on the story.

What if we do something like this, where the titles are like:
1. Project Activation
2. New Directions
3. Outside Reality
4. Ascension

These titles would go well with the theme of "outside the game", because a clever player would order the names and realize:
Project Activation New Directions Outside Reality Ascension

Unless we're calling it Matryoshka, then idk.
But that could be fun to do as an added bonus.

[shinyjiggly]

That's awesome! I guess those lessons in meta really worked. The titles that you picked out really do fit well, I think.

But shouldn't we try to start working on the story for layer one pretty soon? Or should we continue working on the outline for other things?

[Sparrowsmith]

I think I had technically about 5 layers in theory, but only four playable in the general sense.
1- Old Style RPG
2- Gamers at a net cafe or something
3- Programmers (oddly programming not only the RPG but the lives of the gamers)
4- Player wakes up from a dream (and starts playing a game about all this, possibly showing some clips from the other layers). Action may go on in his layer too though.
----------------
5- Completely Meta (looking at you outside the screen at the end, stuff like that, possibly implying that there's a layer 6+ by messing with the audience's heads)

This is exactly what I meant by us still having certain issues to work out.

I'd personally prefer sticking with three layers.
The first layer, being an actual game, will have the same characters as layer 2. And in the third layer, they'll still talk to the characters in layer 2.
This basically means we keep the integrity of the characters. The characters are how we tell the story, and I wouldn't recommend wiping them out and waking up in another layer.

As a joke we can have all of us in a room, talking about how the game is finished, and then look at the screen ominously, but I wouldn't recommend making it a massive plot point of the game.

If we do our jobs as storytellers correctly, then we shouldn't have to tell the audience they're in a game, they should assume it themselves.
Think about the questions raised in Inception. Where Mal is sure she's in a dream when she's in the real world, and vice versa for Cobb. How we're not told if the end is a dream. There is a constant layer jump going on, and you never know what's real, BUT, we always keep the characters, there is emotional growth, and the fourth wall isn't broken.

We shouldn't need to look at the audience at all.
If we do our job right... they'll be looking behind themselves all on their own

That's pretty much my reasoning on the matter. I'm convincible otherwise though if I hear a good enough argument to the contrary.

[bulmabriefs144]

You shouldn't quote something that big.
I think right now we're still deciding on the story.

What if we do something like this, where the titles are like:
1. Project Activation
2. New Directions
3. Outside Reality
4. Ascension

These titles would go well with the theme of "outside the game", because a clever player would order the names and realize:
Project Activation New Directions Outside Reality Ascension

Unless we're calling it Matryoshka, then idk.
But that could be fun to do as an added bonus.

Wow. Unless people have objections, I'd say that's done! We could use that and some sorta common supertitle background.

I'd personally prefer sticking with three layers.
The first layer, being an actual game, will have the same characters as layer 2. And in the third layer, they'll still talk to the characters in layer 2.
This basically means we keep the integrity of the characters. The characters are how we tell the story, and I wouldn't recommend wiping them out and waking up in another layer.

Then maybe we might just have layer 4 as the epilogue chapter (and nerf layer 5 entirely), so we could keep the last part of the name above. The characters would still be there, they'd be random people in the player's neighborhood, making a sort of "it was real after all" thing when you realize all the characters you've grown to love are still there (the hero lancer might be instead pushing a broom, the witch is now a pharmacist, etc). Also be a tad less depressing than the whole "that's not real either" infinite ending you'd get from having 5 layers (though you could still mess with people a bit). Still no fourth wall (unless you extend the logic that you are in fact the player), but it gets a sort of connection between the player and the characters, which is what we're going for in the literal sense. What we probably want is a sort of tight bond between the player and the characters, the villain and the game (and the title), and the game world with reality. Also, I'm considering working on layer 4 now, and having us nerf that too (in addition to layer 5) would bum me out.

As it is the epilogue, it may or may not have actual battles, but should try to wrap up what is basically a trilogy. If that's okay, then I'd start work on it, provided we can create some solid characters.

This post has been edited by bulmabriefs144: Apr 8 2012, 06:58 PM

[Kaust]

You shouldn't quote something that big.
I think right now we're still deciding on the story.

What if we do something like this, where the titles are like:
1. Project Activation
2. New Directions
3. Outside Reality
4. Ascension

These titles would go well with the theme of "outside the game", because a clever player would order the names and realize:
Project Activation New Directions Outside Reality Ascension

Unless we're calling it Matryoshka, then idk.
But that could be fun to do as an added bonus.

Wow. Unless people have objections, I'd say that's done! We could use that and some sorta common supertitle background.

...

As it is the epilogue, it may or may not have actual battles, but should try to wrap up what is basically a trilogy. If that's okay, then I'd start work on it, provided we can create some solid characters.

Umm I can't help but feel you've mistook the layers(worldsize) for chapters(plotsize). There are 3 layers in Sparrow's plot but not necessarily 3 chapters, ideally we'll be swapping through layers in a more imaginative way than simply 1>2>3>endgame, like having clues or something to find in different layers as well as puzzles that require the individual physics of each world to solve (suppose I'm sorta Matrixing this whole thing).
This is also my objection to the PANDORA titles, its a good idea, but we simply don't know how long (chapterwise) the game will be or how relevant these individual titles are.

[Sparrowsmith]

You shouldn't quote something that big.
I think right now we're still deciding on the story.

What if we do something like this, where the titles are like:
1. Project Activation
2. New Directions
3. Outside Reality
4. Ascension

These titles would go well with the theme of "outside the game", because a clever player would order the names and realize:
Project Activation New Directions Outside Reality Ascension

Unless we're calling it Matryoshka, then idk.
But that could be fun to do as an added bonus.

Wow. Unless people have objections, I'd say that's done! We could use that and some sorta common supertitle background.

...

As it is the epilogue, it may or may not have actual battles, but should try to wrap up what is basically a trilogy. If that's okay, then I'd start work on it, provided we can create some solid characters.

Umm I can't help but feel you've mistook the layers(worldsize) for chapters(plotsize). There are 3 layers in Sparrow's plot but not necessarily 3 chapters, ideally we'll be swapping through layers in a more imaginative way than simply 1>2>3>endgame, like having clues or something to find in different layers as well as puzzles that require the individual physics of each world to solve (suppose I'm sorta Matrixing this whole thing).
This is also my objection to the PANDORA titles, its a good idea, but we simply don't know how long (chapterwise) the game will be or how relevant these individual titles are.

I'm with Kaust on this. It's less 1>2>3>End and more 1>1>2>2>3>1>2>3>2>2>3>2>3>3>etc
That said, I'm not against common arcs being titled together, but we should probably have a full draft of the story before we start coming up with title names.
Like Kaust said, we don't know how many chapters we're going to need, so it's kinda difficult to name them at this point.

I also think we should work on the story linearly. That is to say we should probably only actually be developing the next game or two at a time. This is a big project, I don't think we should rush ahead and make the epilogue before we have a comfortable idea of what the story is going to be. Seems hasty.
It doesn't hurt to think ahead though.

I also think that whatever we're calling the last layer (be it fourth or fifth) we shouldn't show it. Showing it means, naturally, that there must be another layer above that, the layer that the actual player is in, playing the game. What we want is for the player to naturally figure out, just by playing the game, finding the secrets, etc, that THEY are in the next layer, playing what they think is just a game.
We can reinforce this by having some characters (most likely the programmers) refusing to be controlled. One of them talks about "Walking into a room and forgetting why you went in there. Feeling like you're being watched out of the corner of your eye. Always something behind you pulling your strings." If you try to control him, he refuses to move or do anything. Unless it's something he actually wants to do.
Kinda reinforces the whole free will thing.

[MEands]

I like that.

And with the titles, I didn't mean that as the actual names, I was just putting that idea out there.
Once we figure out the installments and all that, we'll figure out the name thing. If it works we could spell something, or we could scrap the idea altogether.

And yeah, we should work on the first part right now. How about this, we get someone to write up a (somewhat detailed) outline of the first part. THen we'll critique it until we can agree 95% on the content. That way we don't have everyone's ideas showing up at the same time and end up reading the same thing over and over again.

[shinyjiggly]

I just had a good idea for the first part. What if the NPC's rebelled against the controlled characters (in this case, being characters that have a counterpart in the next level)?
For example, my layer 1 character dances for a living with the help of a spell that causes certain people (read as: only affects NPC's) to pay her more often for her dancing thing. She only does this so that she can grind for "karma points" from repeatedly donating to the orphanage.

What if the rogue program started infecting those NPC's to no longer fall for her ruse and instead kick her out of town/ stick her in a dungeon full of powerful monsters/ suspend her account?

Obviously it wouldn't be a thing all up in your face right off the bat, but the clues would surface to the player slowly that these NPC's definitely aren't as welcoming and nice as they usually should be.

[bulmabriefs144]

You shouldn't quote something that big.
I think right now we're still deciding on the story.

What if we do something like this, where the titles are like:
1. Project Activation
2. New Directions
3. Outside Reality
4. Ascension

These titles would go well with the theme of "outside the game", because a clever player would order the names and realize:
Project Activation New Directions Outside Reality Ascension

Unless we're calling it Matryoshka, then idk.
But that could be fun to do as an added bonus.

Wow. Unless people have objections, I'd say that's done! We could use that and some sorta common supertitle background.

...

As it is the epilogue, it may or may not have actual battles, but should try to wrap up what is basically a trilogy. If that's okay, then I'd start work on it, provided we can create some solid characters.

Umm I can't help but feel you've mistook the layers(worldsize) for chapters(plotsize). There are 3 layers in Sparrow's plot but not necessarily 3 chapters, ideally we'll be swapping through layers in a more imaginative way than simply 1>2>3>endgame, like having clues or something to find in different layers as well as puzzles that require the individual physics of each world to solve (suppose I'm sorta Matrixing this whole thing).
This is also my objection to the PANDORA titles, its a good idea, but we simply don't know how long (chapterwise) the game will be or how relevant these individual titles are.

Nah, I understood, but I think after the first three stories have thoroughly tangled around each other, we introduce the player and use him as a means of wrapping all the plots together (she/he meets all of them, and unites the team, and they manage to finally end the mess of layers by figuring out what is real). More like a trilogy than three chapters. Though this might be like some abstract book set where it's like "turn to page 57 of book 2," "now turn to page 10 of book one. Sort of like... a Choose Your Own Adventure back in the 80s. We want an epilogue at least to kinda unify everything into some sort of an ending. Or possibly two endings with different saves branching out into totally different paths (the bad ending can simply be an ending, the good one might actually be playable to a large extent).

I'd like the idea of having a few decided-on character templates and have groups working on each layer. With the basic concept of the characters, we can have a sort of "slice of life" effect, following how each new character (or old redone) lives in the existence they believe is real. Then at some point we compare notes, and have jump back point in save files, and jump to a new place later.

We'd have to assign someone in charge of continuity, but this way nobody would need to wait for anyone, we'd just need to keep checking back.

This post has been edited by bulmabriefs144: Apr 9 2012, 02:38 PM

[MEands]

I've kinda been worrying about the second layer for a while, so it's supposed to follow the character in their normal life right?
That doesn't seem like an opportunity for much gameplay. :\

[Sparrowsmith]

I just had a good idea for the first part. What if the NPC's rebelled against the controlled characters (in this case, being characters that have a counterpart in the next level)?
For example, my layer 1 character dances for a living with the help of a spell that causes certain people (read as: only affects NPC's) to pay her more often for her dancing thing. She only does this so that she can grind for "karma points" from repeatedly donating to the orphanage.

What if the rogue program started infecting those NPC's to no longer fall for her ruse and instead kick her out of town/ stick her in a dungeon full of powerful monsters/ suspend her account?

Obviously it wouldn't be a thing all up in your face right off the bat, but the clues would surface to the player slowly that these NPC's definitely aren't as welcoming and nice as they usually should be.

Hmm, in the version of layer 1 I wrote out, the rogue program does not interfere until it effectively destroys the game. It's one swift move.
However, I kind like this. It gives us a more interesting quest for layer 1. I suppose the rogue program could 'disappear' from layer 2, and then weird things start happening in layer 1. The programmers don't realize what's going on until the rogue program destroys layer 1 and escapes to layer 2. So yeah, we can move things around and make something like this work.

You shouldn't quote something that big.
I think right now we're still deciding on the story.

What if we do something like this, where the titles are like:
1. Project Activation
2. New Directions
3. Outside Reality
4. Ascension

These titles would go well with the theme of "outside the game", because a clever player would order the names and realize:
Project Activation New Directions Outside Reality Ascension

Unless we're calling it Matryoshka, then idk.
But that could be fun to do as an added bonus.

Wow. Unless people have objections, I'd say that's done! We could use that and some sorta common supertitle background.

...

As it is the epilogue, it may or may not have actual battles, but should try to wrap up what is basically a trilogy. If that's okay, then I'd start work on it, provided we can create some solid characters.

Umm I can't help but feel you've mistook the layers(worldsize) for chapters(plotsize). There are 3 layers in Sparrow's plot but not necessarily 3 chapters, ideally we'll be swapping through layers in a more imaginative way than simply 1>2>3>endgame, like having clues or something to find in different layers as well as puzzles that require the individual physics of each world to solve (suppose I'm sorta Matrixing this whole thing).
This is also my objection to the PANDORA titles, its a good idea, but we simply don't know how long (chapterwise) the game will be or how relevant these individual titles are.

Nah, I understood, but I think after the first three stories have thoroughly tangled around each other, we introduce the player and use him as a means of wrapping all the plots together (she/he meets all of them, and unites the team, and they manage to finally end the mess of layers by figuring out what is real). More like a trilogy than three chapters. Though this might be like some abstract book set where it's like "turn to page 57 of book 2," "now turn to page 10 of book one. Sort of like... a Choose Your Own Adventure back in the 80s. We want an epilogue at least to kinda unify everything into some sort of an ending. Or possibly two endings with different saves branching out into totally different paths (the bad ending can simply be an ending, the good one might actually be playable to a large extent).

I'd like the idea of having a few decided-on character templates and have groups working on each layer. With the basic concept of the characters, we can have a sort of "slice of life" effect, following how each new character (or old redone) lives in the existence they believe is real. Then at some point we compare notes, and have jump back point in save files, and jump to a new place later.

We'd have to assign someone in charge of continuity, but this way nobody would need to wait for anyone, we'd just need to keep checking back.

Well in my version of the story, layer 1 doesn't contain any actual characters. It's just an online game.
The characters that we actually relate to live in layer 2. Eventually the key protagonist manages to enter his body in layer 3, while the others escape into the security systems of layer 3.
So eventually all of the characters we care about do live on the same layer, it's just that some of them are pieces of code.

If we can introduce the player and have him wrap up what is and isn't real, that's swell, but it sounds like a monumentally difficult thing to do. To begin with, how does the player actually intervene with the story?
How can we give choices to the player (free will) when the person playing the game will have more choices than that?

The best we could do is create a 'player' who the real player controls, but who is, ultimately, just another character. Breaking the fourth wall works in stories, quite well if done well, but it's much harder to do in games. I can see the temptation of wanting to bring the player into the game, but you can't physically bring him in, so it'll just seem jarring to anyone actually playing it.
As always I am convincible otherwise. I'm open to any idea so long as it can be resolved in a believable way.

I've kinda been worrying about the second layer for a while, so it's supposed to follow the character in their normal life right?
That doesn't seem like an opportunity for much gameplay. :\

Well layer 2 is going to be ripe with programmer antics pretty early on, and a lot of foreshadowing towards the game that's about to really begin. Almost Kingdom Hearts style, with items being collected, and missions being done, which basically build up the characters. I think we could keep it interesting, but it will be challenging.
I'm imagining them breaking in somewhere actually. Two of them on a roof top, one of them on the street with a walkie talkie, abseiling into a building.

Basically, layer 2 LOOKS like the real world, but that doesn't mean the characters have to be boring. The whole point of layer 2 is that they're so complex that they've become sentient, so breaking the rules seems like a good way to show that, no?

[bulmabriefs144]

Then again, maybe I'm not working on an epilogue using VX Ace. Some weird tiling glitch (I tried using Lunarea's custom tilesets) that I can't figure out means certain tiles (that the database says are pass-through) are not pass-through and acting like solid tiles. I will however continue converting XP from four frames to three so they can be used in other engines. I might try VX Ace again later, but after I figure out what the heck is going wrong with the tiles (I think the custom tileset has a large portiion to do with it).

I was thinking sorta deus ex machina style rather than just a character. Or, you could just have the player be a sort of side comment of the average player using this sort of game (i.e. a real geek). You could possibly do this either with a total custom character (choose everything from name to clothes to skin and hair color), or possibly a sort of larger than life giant picture/charset shrouded in shadow.

If there is an actual character, the player probably would never leave their room (hikkikomori hero) but have either dreams or computer play linking back to the other layers in a sort of ripple effect. The layers could be based on actual characters from the player's past (that is, these characters are fragmented existences trapped in another dimension, which is why he can never see them since he "lost touch"). The player can then use their library to look up puzzles and hack code to help the players. But maybe the layer characters are also able to help the player by helping him remember the people nearby and actually get out of his room. Could even work some sort of romance angle, if these characters do actually parallel the player's past (special mention is given on one of these characters, and the final layer story is about trying to retrieve her/him, making a different lead romantic interest depending on the lead character's gender). The reason it's the "real" final layer is because the player has direct part in creating it. When the character is stuck in their room, nothing actually exists outside it. If the character makes good choices (tweaking layers, solving problems, etc), and heads outside, more areas appear. And more characters return to the world, finally ending on the player arranging a date, and then ends with "Play Again? Y/N" right on the screen while this is going on.

I'm thinking something like

1->2(game ends because players log off)->1->3(unexplained as layer 3)->2->3->1->3(explained as layer 3)->4(character wakes up)-> 1 (playing game) -> 4 -> 3 (emailing programmers about a glitch) ->4 (flashbacks of people who resemble game characters) ->(various layers) ->4 (player starts fishing characters out of their layers, getting interference from the virus)-> 3 (interacting with the programmers) -> 4/various layers (starts exploring/building the sections of the world).

This post has been edited by bulmabriefs144: Apr 10 2012, 06:36 PM

[MEands]

I kinda like that idea but it's completely different than what the other guy's story is.

We need to decide on an idea.

[Turkwise]

This is why I'm really not sold on the whole multi-layer thing. Nobody knows where to begin, because nobody knows where it's gonna end up. 5 pages of theorizing on how to make a multi-layered game, yet little to no advancement on the actual story. Like I said before, it's a good idea, but it works best in the hands of one single person crafting the story with a plan from beginning to end. You can see just looking through this topic that nobody's really on the same page here.

[bulmabriefs144]

This is why I'm really not sold on the whole multi-layer thing. Nobody knows where to begin, because nobody knows where it's gonna end up. 5 pages of theorizing on how to make a multi-layered game, yet little to no advancement on the actual story. Like I said before, it's a good idea, but it works best in the hands of one single person crafting the story with a plan from beginning to end. You can see just looking through this topic that nobody's really on the same page here.

Hey I could do it from beginning to end, based on what's written, but there's something called a team here. Here I'll prove it.

Well in my version of the story, layer 1 doesn't contain any actual characters. It's just an online game.
The characters that we actually relate to live in layer 2. Eventually the key protagonist manages to enter his body in layer 3, while the others escape into the security systems of layer 3.
So eventually all of the characters we care about do live on the same layer, it's just that some of them are pieces of code.

If we can introduce the player and have him wrap up what is and isn't real, that's swell, but it sounds like a monumentally difficult thing to do. To begin with, how does the player actually intervene with the story?
How can we give choices to the player (free will) when the person playing the game will have more choices than that?

The problem with making the audience aware of the fact that it's an online game before building up the characters is that suspension of disbelief is lost. That is, it isn't real to the players because you haven't made the characters fully real. Likewise, if these characters are suddenly lost, the audience gets apathy for the story, so each layer should have parallels in other layers. Okay, I'll pitch a complete story idea:

Layer 1
The original characters meet up to fight against the evil overlord at some distant castle. Very cliche, but the characters, as mentioned above should be interesting and based on each member of this team (that is, they're like avatars). Possibly there should be some sense of each character's point of view and motivation. For argument's sake we're saying the Pandora box thing does exist, and they fight it only to have it run away. Anyway, the characters enter the final castle, solve the puzzles and prepare to face the final boss when...

Layer 2
There's an error message on the screen. The players who were online email each other with "that sux" or something, and then go to classes/jobs/whatever. It should be somewhat clear by appearance and personality traits which is which game character. They try again later and find a "if program has failed, please contact..." address which they call/email/send a postcard to.

Layer 3
At this point, it should not be clear that there are 3+ layers of reality, simply that that there are people playing an online game and programmers in charge of repairing issues (it's to build suspense about what's really going on) since it's like an MMORPG. So this and layer 2 should about the same level of graphics, sorta XP instead of the VX munchkins from Layer 1, and it's assumed they are simply in a different location. The programmers write back an email, which should keep in this layer since it's currently building the plot around the programmers. The programmers ask how the gamers got this virus error, and they tell about their adventures, not mentioning the strange box they fought. The programmers say that they'll get to work on programming the debug.

Layer 2
The players go about their lives for about a week or so. Then they get impatient for news of the fix so they log on to the game.

Layer 1
The characters enter the final castle (again), solve the puzzles and prepare to face the final boss. The final boss is holding the box they saw earlier, and seems to be using it to complete heal every five turns, making some sort comment like "As long as I have THIS BOX, you can never defeat me! (Mwahahahaha)" If you attack the box, the thing transforms into an open box, and the battle ends...


Layer 2
There's another glitch, and it says "Downloading Pandora to Layer 2." The characters then try to contact the programmers again, but the servers are down. As they are going to their respective jobs/school, there's weird stuff happening (like glitches, only they look more realistic, like someone's dog becomes a feral wolf, or random objects just disappear). After some of this, the gamers share their experiences when the programmer's server is back online.

Layer 3
There's a major choice here. The gamers can choose to tell the programmers about the box or not
(Don't tell)
Layer 2
The game ends badly. The virus takes over the layer and the characters all die/get erased.
(Tell about the box)
The programmers say "we didn't program any such monster" and start working on some kind of fix. After about a day or so, they tell the gamers in layer 2 the truth about the layers, and that the virus is taking over the world they live in. The programmers have some sort of fix that involves some method or other of transferring their data into bodies in this layer, or transferring them by finding some gap in the layers.

(So ummm, yea either the game ends here, or we have a layer four.)

Layer 4
The player wakes up, or logs off of the computer. The player is basically a custom character that represents the actual player (so you get to choose everything about their appearance), while those gathered in layer 3 represent all the people working on the game. So the rest of the game is interacting with the third layer, since the player is playing a very surreal video game, and seeing parallels of people in the real world to the first three layers. It isn't really gameplay anymore so much as a nice way of wrapping things up.

I think I managed to get everything I heard from other people that seemed to work together.

This post has been edited by bulmabriefs144: Apr 11 2012, 06:07 PM

[MEands]

We might not want to call them layers in game.
When it says "downloading pandora to layer 2" it gives away that there are probably a layer 3 and 4.
I think the most fun part of the game is thinking the joke of "it was just a game" is from 1-2, and 2 seems like reality.

Also, I remember sparrow saying we shouldn't directly mention pandora in the game.