Ideas for story, Post, discuss, debate on plot lines Options

[bulmabriefs144]

Also, on the note of character designs, we can work on spriting. The Character Design thread is dead in the water.

[Sparrowsmith]

We should start making major plot characters. If possible, I'd like to not use any R3 members for the main cast, depending on how many there are.

There is a story being told here, and there's a high chance everyone will want their self-reflecting character to be part of the main cast. Firstly, we can't make everyone part of the main cast. Secondly, the main characters are going to go through all kinds of hell emotionally and physically. I don't want to write (and I hope no one else does) that personally about an actual person. It's weird. There are other reasons, which I hope I don't need to go into, as well as the above.

So lets try and keep R3 members (including everyone here) limited to non-playable characters.
That means gamers in layer 1 and parts of the game.
That means people in layer 2
That means programmers (that we don't play as) in layer 3

I don't know what everyone's thoughts on this was already, but I thought I'd get mine out of the way.

Okay, I'm still working on Act III and Act IV (I am way overdue on this, I know, but it's kind of hard to write it all out without characters...) so should we open up another thread (or maybe two) to look at Act I and Act II
Maybe open a thread for plot characters, or should we handle that in the Act threads?

[bulmabriefs144]

Well, get through with Act III and IV (just mention basic parties and what happens rather than specific members), and then the character making will make more sense.

As far as I'm concerned, I given my thoughts on villains, and in the character design page I mentioned my character as an NPC/villain. Basically a cameo boss from another game. Other than that, I couldn't see making a main character.

[Sparrowsmith]

Done.
If no one minds, I'm gonna drink coffee, eat doughnuts, and go to sleep soon. I think I've plugged like five hours into this thing... I don't even know how that's possible.

I like them maybe leaving town for a day to get away from police, etc. Gives us the chance to put them all in one place and learn more about them.

The rebellious nature of the kids is due to them being much better programmed than most of the AI in Layer 2. The programmers have a kind of affinity towards the kids already, which is why they made the game accessible to them.
I hadn't really thought about one of the kids being the Rogue Program, mostly because I didn't want to make one of the programmers shoot a character we were familiar with... It could work though.

I like them stumbling onto an unfinished part of the game, or a part they're not supposed to ever reach so it's purposefully incomplete.
Day 3 I think would mostly be them noticing the programmers as they get ready for the test run. To make sure as much of the layer is as safe as possible, the programmers have shut down pretty much everything that isn't vital to the game. Thoughts?

Edit:

The following is not absolutely certain. I've thrown a lot of stuff in here on the fly, that way other people can cut it out, and we'll be left with more story than we started with.
I figure progress is throwing stuff and seeing what sticks.

[Show/Hide] Plot Synopsis

[Show/Hide] Act I

Begin game:
A group of somewhat trope heroes are standing nearby a castle/dungeon of some kind. They are discussing an event which will happen soon, and even though they are not ready to take on the [Layer 1 final boss] they have to go now or never. They set off into the dungeon, encountering several puzzles and enemies over the course of several short games. While they appear to be stereotypical heroes, their mannerisms and behavior parody typical RPGs. They save prisoners from the dungeon, but openly admit they are doing so for personal gain. The prisoners are also strange, begging to be 'saved' even after being released. The heroes chalk this up to being part of their quest.
During battles we see them talking to one another, issuing commands and working as a team. This also serves as a guide to the players, as the heroes are already quite a high level, and have a range of abilities that compliment one another.
Eventually are heroes reach the boss of the dungeon, but time is of the essence. Just as they're about to take him down and save the land, everything stops, then cuts to black.
The heroes continue to complain. The game has gone down for the update. While they are all complaining, one of them leaves, saying someone is at the door.

We are now on layer 2, but three hours in the past. We're following two new characters, characters who do not own or play the game, as they struggle to find something to do while all their friends are occupied. While their problems are much more realistic, talking about school, relationships, part time jobs, etc, it's fairly obvious they aren't usual people. Eventually they come to the conclusion that, in order to hang out with their friends, they'll have to get ahold of the game. They try to buy a copy, but the local game shop is all out of stock. The man behind the desk informs them that they should have more copies coming in from a nearby warehouse the next day.
That isn't good enough for our characters.
They go over to the warehouse, hoping to buy the game there, but find it, mostly, abandoned. They settle for the next best thing to buying the game: stealing the game.
Together they gather the necessary tools, break into the warehouse, incapacitate a guard, and get away with two copies of the game. Afterwards they get on their bikes and ride back into town to one of their friend's houses. We cut to their friend, who is incredibly annoyed at his computer for some reason. Eventually he calms down, and answers the door, bringing us back up to the present.

End of Act I

[Show/Hide] Act II

We spend the next few chapters meeting the 'real' gamers behind Layer 2. With the game down for an update, which will last three days, the group resolves to make the most of this time and... get up to some lighthearted mayhem. We play several puzzles related to breaking into, and then moving around, a scrapyard. Avoiding the owner of the scrapyard and his dogs. Over this time we learn more about the characters, their histories (maybe some flashbacks), their ambitions, and which characters they match up to in layer 1. Towards the end of this day they are found by the police and the news breaks out that two of them stole the game. While it's not something the group approves of, they stick with them and help them escape, then the whole gang skips town.

They arrive in the early hours of the next day at a house near the beach that one of them owns. How she owns it is something of a mystery, and the group lets it lie as one of many secrets that seem to surround their lives.
Alternatively, they go camping near the beach, and sit around the campfire until they all fall asleep. The scene is similar to the start of the game.
When they all wake up, they wander down to the beach for some much deserved downtime, but the place is deserted except for a few people who don't even seem to have noticed. After a little while they decide to go exploring some nearby caves. The caves are incredibly hard to get into, and even more difficult to explore, requiring lots of teamwork to make progress. Eventually the area begins to break down, but the kids don't realize why. They finally arrive at an open hole in the ground, stretching out as far as they can see. They consider abseiling down, but when they drop a handful of rocks they don't hear them hit the bottom. In fact, the entire world just seems to stop a few feet down.
As they're contemplating what to do, they hear a noise.
A familiar noise.
It almost
sort of
sounds like the town clock.
But that's impossible.
How would that even work?
They leave a rope descending into the darkness in case they change their mind.

The kids call it a day and head back to the house/campsite. They all go to sleep.

We then cut to a man we have met before:
-A priest
-A shopkeeper
-The Scrapyard owner (my personal fave)

This man is just an ordinary man going about his life in the early hours of the morning.. We don't see him for very long, just long enough for a stranger to approach him. Just long enough for that stranger to draw a gun, argue with himself for a few minutes, and then shoot the man.
As the Scrapyard owner collapses to the ground, the screen fades out.
Over at the campsite, the majority (all?) of the kids wake up. They're not sure why. Something just feels fundamentally wrong. They pack up their things and head to the beach one last time. No one is at the beach. There's not a soul in sight. They decide to just go home.
Arriving back in town, they each go their separate ways. Each of them experiences weird things on the way home. People complaining about nightmares, a feeling of unease, waking up to a gunshot.
It's all very strange.
Not to mention there's these strange people running around looking for something, but every time you try to follow them, they seem to disappear.
The characters all try to go to sleep that night, but can't bring themselves to do it. They just don't want to do it. The electric isn't working, they can't get signal on their phones, they can't do anything. So they go outside. As the group wanders the streets, they don't find anyone. Not a single car, not a noise, nothing, nothing but empty buildings for miles. By calling out into the darkness some of them find each other.
Finally, they catch a glimpse of the strange people from before observing them. The people run off yet again, and people start reemerging from their houses, the lights come back on.
The kids return home and go to sleep.
The next day things are running like new again. It's like nothing even happened. The kids all message each other and finally get around playing the game and finishing the quest. The new players are too low a level to join the others on the quest, so they go on to do a lower tier mission off screen.

We're back in layer 1.
Players are complaining about the update all over the place, but our protagonists ignore that. and head to finish their mission. Using a quest checkpoint, they jump right up to the final part of the quest. It plays out exactly like before, but with a few differences. The players open treasure chests and "finf 24 ihsig pitos" not to mention the "d3%5379 ##!" keep "A-=c;"ing them. When they reach the final room, it looks nothing like before, and their friends won't stop messaging them over chat about how weird the game is.
The other players meanwhile are doing a simple retrieval quest. But every time they reach the end of the map, they keep going back to the start of the one they were just on. When they talk to NPCs, they get stuck on pages and pages of blank text.
They try messaging their friends for help, but they're preoccupied.
Finally, the game crashes. The actual RM game crashes.
Continuing from the last save, however, reveals our other heroes talking to some strange new enemy that has replaced the final boss. It crashes their games and disappears. The enemy is the man who was shot earlier.

Layer 3
We see the programmers gathered around a set of consoles, terminals, computers, and generally high tech looking equipment. They see agitated by something, a problem with the game they're just updated, and players encountering something they shouldn't have.
Toward the end of the scene the tensions raise further, as they try to get someone 'out of the game' only to eventually hack it themselves. From their reaction, we can only guess there are disastrous results.

Layer 2
You are one of the protagonists. One of the main ones. The game has just crashed, and now it's acting really buggy. In fact, your whole computer is being a little.
Oh shit.
Your computer just turned into a monster. A monster from the game, no less, and quite a tough monster. Unsurprisingly, it begins kicking your ass. You run out of the house and into the street, only to hear the panicked cries of someone nearby. Being a goodnatured person, you run to help them. You find a programmer being attacked by monsters from Layer 1 and... It's that guy again. The Scrapyard owner. You and the programmer are cornered when, thank your lucky stars, your friend from before who stole the game shows up.
Did I mention he's a black belt in obscure martial arts? Cause he is.

As you and your friend dispatch the monsters, the programmer disappears. The Scrapyard owner then says something cryptic and also disappears. The world around you seems to change. Before you can really understand what's going on, you get a message.
"[name], I know you can hear this, or read it, or something. I also know none of this makes any sense, but if you don't get out of there soon, you're going to die."
"[questioning response]"
"That man that just attacked you, he can use [incredibly overpowered attack]. The one from your game."
"Holy shit!"
"Get. Out. Of. There."

The two protagonists present then discuss their options. Intuitively, they head for the park, where they find the rest of their friends. One of them is suddenly struck with an idea when they hear the clock-tower chiming. However, before they can leave, they are confronted by a large enemy from the game. Originally they get beaten badly, and all hope seems lost, when the protagonists hear the programmers writing to them again. They've found a way to give the players their Layer 1 powers.
The protagonists, sans the two that never played the game, manage to defeat the enemy now that they have all their abilities. They only have a few minutes before the Rogue Program will release the attack. They rush towards the clock tower.

The group fights their way up through the levels, eventually arriving at the top of the clock-tower. There, in the corner of the top room, they find a rope dangling down from the ceiling. The same rope they left hanging down from the cave at the beach.
With no other option, and time running out, they climb the rope.

End of Act II

[Show/Hide] Act III

We now see the last few major scenes from the point of the programmers.
This includes the shooting of the scrapyard owner, some explanation of how the code works, and the Scrapyard owner going rogue. We finish with the destruction of the town. (I'm glossing over this, because the code, how it all works, etc, is something which we've already gone through in detail, and I'll explain later in more detail.)

We then return to our heroes. They are grouped around the hole in the cave which they just escaped through. After discussing things for a few moments, they head back to their former campsite/summer house, there they receive instructions from the programmers.
The kids are living in a virtual world developed by the programmers. Their behavior is based off of real life experiences run through an incredibly complex AI. Until recently the programmers didn't understand just how complex that AI was, but it seems now that the kids are just as conscious as any living being. The programmers explain that they recently installed a code into the game that prevents AI from being killed by outside sources by putting them to sleep and then reviving them if they are injured fatally by an outside source. However, the first time they tried out this code, it backfired, and the program they tested it on (the Scrapyard owner) went rogue. The Rogue Program then entered a second game held on the same computers, a side-project, and took control, releasing the game into the other game.
The programmers cannot kill the rogue program, as it will revive, but the kids are part of the game, so should be able to kill it before it manages to take over the entire game and unleash itself upon the world.

Our heroes somewhat reluctantly accept their roles, dealing with identity issues, but putting them aside for the greater good. Our two non-gamers are also given abilities from the game.
They return to the hole back into the town, only, with it destroyed, there are now several 'exposed' game areas. The protagonists must fix parts of the game to reach further parts of the game, learning how to manipulate the code and chase down the Rogue Program.

What follows is a series of puzzles requiring each player to rebuild parts of the game, discover new areas, and defeat the monsters (and eventually corrupted monsters) that the Rogue Program leaves in its wake. The programmers help them through this time, trying to slow down the Rogue Program (mini games?) and shut down any ways out of Layer 2 that aren't essential.

Eventually the players reach the Rogue Program and battle it, but it's incredibly powerful. The programmers grapple with whether or not to just terminate the game, but the ethical repercussions trouble them. The Rogue Program disappears, and the players are told they're gonna have to do something drastic.

End of Act III

[Show/Hide] Act IV

(This is the shakiest of Acts, so I'm gonna throw some stuff in here, and you're all gonna have to let me know if it's good.)
We begin with one of the protagonists in a strange and non-sensical place (possibly layer 4?). He wanders around (possibly without a body) until a voice (universe containing Russian Doll/Pandora) talks with him. After some time it sends him back where he belongs.

Meanwhile, the Programmers discuss how the game has been almost completely destroyed, they briefly lament the loss of all their data. They then wonder where the Rogue Program escaped to, and whether their plan worked.
The screen turns into a video feed, like that of a security camera.
The doors close.
The Rogue Program is in the security system. The programmers are going to have to each find a way out of the rooms they are trapped in.

We then see the kids (sans the one we played as in the opening), they're roaming some new place. One of the programmers contact the group and inform them they are now in the security system, albeit a sub-level. They have to find a way to reach the master controls, get rid of the Rogue Program, and switch the security systems back to normal. The company they work for is incredibly powerful, they were making complex AI after all. If the Rogue Program gets anywhere else, it could really cause trouble.

Some time during this action, one of the programmers comes into contact off-screen with Matryoshka, he is told when he is faced with a choice, he must not take any chances.

We then wake up in some strange room. The protagonist who was missing from the group is on some kind of bed in layer 3, hooked up to several machines. Through some button pressing he manages to stand up, though he is weak, and move around. He soon encounters trouble with the security systems, and has to use his environment to avoid detection/death and reunite with the others.
Meanwhile the kids are battling programs that the Rogue Program is sending after them (I guess we have a whole new battle system for this bit).

We continue darting around these three teams as they solve problems.

Finally, the Rogue Program gets a chance to settle his score with the kids. He explains how all he wants to do is survive, like them. There is no difference in their actions, not really. While making this speech, he finds a way to escape, but not before the kids attack him, leaving him injured.
Meanwhile, the programmers meet up with the protagonist. They are shocked, but one of them explains. The protagonist was the source of the 'experiences' that some of the AI were based on. He was the son of [CEO of company/Lead programmer] who fell into a coma. Seeing as it was unlikely he would wake up, his father used his memories to build a 'real' world that he could be part of. Somehow the artificial conscience has returned to the original body.

We then see a final showdown between the protagonist and the Rogue Program who has installed himself in a robotic body on another floor of the company (I'm a little foggy on how to resolve this, or whether to do this at all. If this is too farfetched, then the protagonist stays with his friends and defeats the Rogue Program within the security system.) The Rogue Program begs for mercy in the end, to be spared, but one of the programmers says that the greater good is at stake, and they can't afford to let it live.

Epilogue:
The Programmers begin rebuilding the world from backup files, giving the kids somewhere to live again. They work with the kids, filling out the world, doing things with the code that are years ahead of their time, and paving the way for a real virtual world. The protagonist who returned to his true body often plugs himself back into the game, missing his time there with who he considers his real friends, and what he considers the real world.
The world is saved, the Rogue Program is destroyed, and several layers up, some people on a game making forum celebrate...
But that's a story for another time.

Okay, I think most of us kind of know where it goes from here, but I'll write up the rest when I get the time.
Towards the end there I could tell I was running out of motivation, and it wasn't going to do the story justice to drag it out when I'm unmotivated.

HOWEVER, we can discuss what is written here so far, as the biggest hole in the story was between Layer 1 and the Rogue Program assuming control.
This is just Act I that is written above, and a little Act II. There is more to both acts but we can work that out as we go, I'll edit it in as we work on it.

Pressing concerns:
Everything above.
Characters + Personal character development.
Rogue Program identity.
Some chronology.

EDIT: EVERYTHING IS DONE (but in dire need of editing.)

[bulmabriefs144]

Whoa, that new RRR Game location made it hard to find.

(This is the shakiest of Acts, so I'm gonna throw some stuff in here, and you're all gonna have to let me know if it's good.)
We begin with one of the protagonists in a strange and non-sensical place (possibly layer 4?). He wanders around (possibly without a body) until a voice (universe containing Russian Doll/Pandora) talks with him. After some time it sends him back where he belongs.

Yea, without a body is good. This also ties in with the old idea I had about a custom hero. You help name the hero, and give them the (desired) "correct" body from a menu screen. Before that, maybe a whited out shadow or something. For instance, you can name it your name or something random.

Sounds good. I vote done, anyone second?

[Sparrowsmith]

Well this is why we need names.
He is one of the heroes from layer 2, he just gets separated from the rest of them and placed back in his body in layer 3 (where he has been in a coma all this time *Shocking Revelation*) but before he goes back to his body, he ends up in layer 3.5 (he's like... not outside of Pandora, but he's not in layer 3 anymore. He's in a kind of limbo between the two) so Pandora sends him home. He's supposed to go back to layer 2, but with it destroyed, he ends up in his old body.
And we already know what his old body should look like.

[bulmabriefs144]

But then we'd have to decide which hero it is. Wouldn't it be simpler just to be like, you the player are trapped without a body in layer four (because we can't really know what that body looks like until you describe it), and show up every now and then at the epilogue part to play the game (which is true anyway, if they're still on)? I like 4th wall anyway, and losing that to have it be a hero seems kinda I dunno to me.

What we could do, is never show the character's actual graphic once their body is found and have them walking toward the screen to collect their body (sorta a white silhouette of a person growing larger and larger). Then at the epilogue James Kimberly or whoever the player is playing the game and we have a drawn picture just showing their hands at a console/computer.

This post has been edited by bulmabriefs144: Apr 25 2012, 08:42 AM

[Sparrowsmith]

We'd see him in layer 2 though...

If more people would like to break the fourth wall, then it's not my place to say no, but I'm personally against it. You just can't put the player in the game, it can't be done All you'll get is an undeveloped character with no emotions who the player is TOLD represents them, but it really doesn't.
You can do it in first person games, of course, but you can't really do first person in RM. Even in first person games, it doesn't work well.

[bulmabriefs144]

It think it can, but the point is the focus isn't really on character development there anyway. The heroes are the ones you develop. The player is just like every player in a game, what they do in their private life (skiing, gardening, etc) happens offstage. What happens onstage is that they're an avid player of the game. Hence, we don't show their face, we can show their hands and their silhouette. They're somehow beyond the game, like a God is to reality or a fantasy universe.

The old show ReBoot has a similar stance, all the characters are inside the computer. The User is venerated as some sort of quasi-deity that is never seen, but his/her effects are seen (playing games loads VR stuff onto the world, and when the world gets really messed up due to a virus, the user reformats everything).

Reboot Episode 1

We should never see the Player's face, we just know their name because it's given out. Their outline walks toward the screen (I can do this effect, simply make a solid white silhouette that steadily gets bigger while walking), and then later their hands are shown at a computer, where the computer screen is set to transparent, and shows the heroes standing around in a field or something. Basically, a similar approach you'd get for FMA with that strange shadow critter beyond The Gate. Occasionally you get forces reaching from beyond the gate, just as occasionally, you get glimpses of the hands of the player, but you never directly see them. That's the point, and it's very doable.

The other problem with using a hero is you're like, okay. So he's a hero again.

The protagonist who returned to his true body often plugs himself back into the game, missing his time there with who he considers his real friends, and what he considers the real world.

If it's the honest-to-goodness (or at least supposed to represent them) player, the people actually playing the game are like "who's this guy" when he's standing around talking to the Pandora and then at the epilogue they're like "ohhh, that was supposed to be me" if we do it well, anyway.

This post has been edited by bulmabriefs144: Apr 25 2012, 09:25 AM

[MEands]

Just for the sake of votes, I'm kinda more for the idea of it being his son's body and not the player.

[Kaust]

It think it can, but the point is the focus isn't really on character development there anyway. The heroes are the ones you develop. The player is just like every player in a game, what they do in their private life (skiing, gardening, etc) happens offstage. What happens onstage is that they're an avid player of the game. Hence, we don't show their face, we can show their hands and their silhouette. They're somehow beyond the game, like a God is to reality or a fantasy universe.

Its a good idea, it just seems like it would be a really sensitive addition to a much more stable story than we have.

If more people would like to break the fourth wall, then it's not my place to say no, but I'm personally against it. You just can't put the player in the game, it can't be done All you'll get is an undeveloped character with no emotions who the player is TOLD represents them, but it really doesn't.
You can do it in first person games, of course, but you can't really do first person in RM. Even in first person games, it doesn't work well.

I think theres room for a couple of fourth wall jokes...
You're right about the lack of character development though, think Isaac in Golden Sun. Its more effective having a character that emotionally develops as it makes the player feel like their growing with the character; there's room to agree and disagree with his actions, there's room to like the character, and theres a whole soliditiy, a self-sustenance, when all the characters are part of the same world. You can't do this kinda stuff with someone whose essentially a template for you.

[shinyjiggly]

To me, the inclusion of this "blank slate layer 4 character that is suddenly the most important main character" late in the game seems to be a bit jarring, especially with all of the lower layer characters being much more developed by this point in the story. I would prefer that we did not outright show anything in "layer 4", but keep 99% of the story within layer 3 or lower. I'm fine with subtle hints of elements within a hypothetical 4th layer, but I think 3 layers is enough to focus on for a unified plot.

But, the aforementioned scene where somebody is lost in between layers is still very much interesting.

[Sparrowsmith]

If more people would like to break the fourth wall, then it's not my place to say no, but I'm personally against it. You just can't put the player in the game, it can't be done All you'll get is an undeveloped character with no emotions who the player is TOLD represents them, but it really doesn't.
You can do it in first person games, of course, but you can't really do first person in RM. Even in first person games, it doesn't work well.

I think theres room for a couple of fourth wall jokes...
You're right about the lack of character development though, think Isaac in Golden Sun. Its more effective having a character that emotionally develops as it makes the player feel like their growing with the character; there's room to agree and disagree with his actions, there's room to like the character, and theres a whole soliditiy, a self-sustenance, when all the characters are part of the same world. You can't do this kinda stuff with someone whose essentially a template for you.

Oh man, we're throwing more fourth wall jokes into this game than forms of media are supposed to handle. The fourth wall is going to be joked about so much that it's practically going to be a god damn entity.
I just don't want it to be a playable entity.

Without being overly jokey though, I do want fourth wall jokes, just not fourth wall players. I'm sorry if that wasn't clear

To me, the inclusion of this "blank slate layer 4 character that is suddenly the most important main character" late in the game seems to be a bit jarring, especially with all of the lower layer characters being much more developed by this point in the story. I would prefer that we did not outright show anything in "layer 4", but keep 99% of the story within layer 3 or lower. I'm fine with subtle hints of elements within a hypothetical 4th layer, but I think 3 layers is enough to focus on for a unified plot.

But, the aforementioned scene where somebody is lost in between layers is still very much interesting.

This is pretty much my thoughts on the matter.
You can tell the player "Oh hey, this is you." but they won't believe it. You have to say "Hey, player, you're this guy".
It's a transit of identity.
Player -> Character.
The player plays the role of the character, immersing themselves in their life, and growing through them. All stories are told this way to an extent.
Character -> Player.
A character is forced into the role of player, but the player becomes a typical everyman because there is no room to develop that which must encompass ALL possible players.

In short, our goal is to pull the player into the game, not push the game onto the player.

I'm glad (almost) everyone is on board with this. I keep getting worried I'm taking liberties with the story

[bulmabriefs144]

To me, the inclusion of this "blank slate layer 4 character that is suddenly the most important main character" late in the game seems to be a bit jarring, especially with all of the lower layer characters being much more developed by this point in the story. I would prefer that we did not outright show anything in "layer 4", but keep 99% of the story within layer 3 or lower. I'm fine with subtle hints of elements within a hypothetical 4th layer, but I think 3 layers is enough to focus on for a unified plot.

But, the aforementioned scene where somebody is lost in between layers is still very much interesting.

In short, our goal is to pull the player into the game, not push the game onto the player.

I'm glad (almost) everyone is on board with this. I keep getting worried I'm taking liberties with the story

We could still however end the game with the thing sorta like people standing around supposedly in the final real world, and then frame someone's hands playing that on the computer. This would make one final fourth wall joke and show the layer 4, without introducing an extraneous character.



With the green color as transparent, showing the characters underneath as if on a screen. And yea, my art sux, I converted it to 256 color to make it more cartoonish.

It needn't be necessary to create an actual character meant to represent the player. But messing with people's heads one last time is an absolute must.

This post has been edited by bulmabriefs144: Apr 26 2012, 01:08 PM

[MEands]

That seems like a bit of a last resort.
If we tell the story well enough we should be able to imply that the player is also in a layer.

[bulmabriefs144]

Well, yea. But, the story as it is now, seems missing something to wrap it up neatly (why make a multi-layer game if you're gonna play a straight happy ending? That just seems off). Implication doesn't leave as memorable an impression on playing audiences than something weird that they tell their friends (like it did for Star Ocean and FF8). I normally don't sign off on games without seriously weird/quirky endings, as I've seen too many bland RPG endings with too many loose ends.

So if we nix this, we've gotta come up with a suitably bizarre epilogue. Other than that, I figure Act I- IV are complete, but I wanna have a good epilogue, since Sparrow has been running the show for the most part lately.

Epilogue:
The Programmers begin rebuilding the world from backup files, giving the kids somewhere to live again. They work with the kids, filling out the world, doing things with the code that are years ahead of their time, and paving the way for a real virtual world. The protagonist who returned to his true body often plugs himself back into the game, missing his time there with who he considers his real friends, and what he considers the real world.
The world is saved, the Rogue Program is destroyed, and several layers up, some people on a game making forum celebrate...
But that's a story for another time.

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For the most part it's okay. And I'm gonna rule out Cthulhu coming out from beyond dimensions and devouring everyone (that's okay for some of my games, but being it's a team project I doubt you guys would go for it... Bummer). How about a simple theatrical curtain closing on the characters after they finish saying the last lines? It's easy enough to do, it ties in the idea of a layer 4 (there has to be someone on the other side running stage work) without openly showing the player, but it's also something you gotta connect the dots to understand. Plus, it ties in the quote suggested earlier about the world being a stage, by finishing the motif.

That said, if you can think of something stranger, that makes the audience be like "what a weird ending (to an equally strange game)" I'm all for it. It's just with fourth wall jokes, and several layers of play and everything else, then surely it can't have an ordinary or boring ending. The only way it could have that is if you play to that, making the audience expect one and then pull a bait-and-switch. But still, it seems like you'd be backing down from something more interesting.

[MEands]

We could do something of what I said earlier

You beat the game, then when the credits and the ending happens, it shows an ending title graphic, but the graphic phases in and out and it slightly hints that there is still some form of infection, but it's on your end of the world now.

[bulmabriefs144]

Sure thing. Yea, anything like that would be good.

If we can decide on it, then I'd say the next step is doing the characters, oh and... boss designs. We should make a thread where we plan out interesting bosses with their weaknesses and battle strategies.

This post has been edited by bulmabriefs144: Apr 27 2012, 04:22 AM

[Sparrowsmith]

To me, the inclusion of this "blank slate layer 4 character that is suddenly the most important main character" late in the game seems to be a bit jarring, especially with all of the lower layer characters being much more developed by this point in the story. I would prefer that we did not outright show anything in "layer 4", but keep 99% of the story within layer 3 or lower. I'm fine with subtle hints of elements within a hypothetical 4th layer, but I think 3 layers is enough to focus on for a unified plot.

But, the aforementioned scene where somebody is lost in between layers is still very much interesting.

In short, our goal is to pull the player into the game, not push the game onto the player.

I'm glad (almost) everyone is on board with this. I keep getting worried I'm taking liberties with the story

We could still however end the game with the thing sorta like people standing around supposedly in the final real world, and then frame someone's hands playing that on the computer. This would make one final fourth wall joke and show the layer 4, without introducing an extraneous character.



With the green color as transparent, showing the characters underneath as if on a screen. And yea, my art sux, I converted it to 256 color to make it more cartoonish.

It needn't be necessary to create an actual character meant to represent the player. But messing with people's heads one last time is an absolute must.

We could do something of what I said earlier

You beat the game, then when the credits and the ending happens, it shows an ending title graphic, but the graphic phases in and out and it slightly hints that there is still some form of infection, but it's on your end of the world now.

I'm fine with either of these really.
I don't mind reserving a final joke for the very end. A final, gotcha! Before (or after) the credits. I am opposed to making a plot relevant character be behind the curtain though.
If the story wraps up nicely, then afterwards we can pull whatever psychouts we want.

I'm only concerned with the plot at this point and I'm afraid I'm on too little time to say anything else. Tomorrow we'll set up a new thread and get to work on some nitty gritty plot details, like character arks, and minute - by minute scripts for what will happen.

[bulmabriefs144]

In terms of the plot besides that last thing (whichever one we decide, or possibly as many as we can get away with), I think it sounds solid. Just hash out the details. Which hero loses his body and winds up talking to the pandora critter? Which kids are without the game in question? And just who is this shopkeeper? For this we'd actually need to know who's who.