Levels DO NOT MATTER....it's all story baby!, SERIOUS POSTERS ONLY. Options

[Adrien.]

LEVELS, STORY AND RPGS TODAY!

Levels, people worry about them. People expect to finish an RPG at level 45-50. Some people even go to 99 for the fun of it. Do they matter? Do levels really matter? No. Why? Because its all about the story. For example, my games you may, for some reason beyond me, end at level 10. But you watched the character grow, evolve and face challenges. You might say "no you didn't. He or she would be at like level 50." Not really. You don't need powerful bosses, great evils and challenging puzzles to watch your character grow. What you need is well written Dialogue, NPC's, Cut scenes and a story that grips the players

People are concerned with balanced non grinding battles. Ok so sure you need those for your games so that characters do not grind. But then they introduce the stereo typical idea of Boss An is easy, B is harder, C is harder and so on and so on. It's not about the level of the character people its about the story, the interactions and the world around you. Its about how you make the world seem alive and more realistic then before (before being pre 95 when games were (and still are) hunt, kill, save big boobed girl, hump, reproduce, sequel)

Examples of games where Levels are needed:

• WOW,
• Guild Wars (LV 20 is max but still)
• Most if not all MMO's
• Most if not all RGP's and Games that incorporate some leveling system.

Why?

Because the higher the level the bigger and badder you are. The higher the level the better armor, the better weapons, spells, gold, chicks, items and what ever else your 12 year old - 18 year old hormone driven mind can produce.

You need levels, with out levels it's not an RPG

Um...think about that statement again. and read these words as you do: It's not about the levels its about the story.

So based on what's presented here, this is your discussion topic:

Why do you think (if you think) levels are so important in an rpg and how do they effect (if they effect) a games story and progression


Concept:

The idea of this post is to explain how leveling effects the character growth, how it effects what the player is limited by, be it armor, weapons, locations, story progression and so on. The idea is not to argue over the making of visual novels, the inclusion of levels or the game play vs story line but to focus on how developers include levels and how that effects the game, as stated before, in what the player can do, fight, have. It is also to discuss the concept of does a level show how the character growed as a person, a being or weather they just growed in HP, strength and dexterity.

is it affect or effect... >_> any ways...DISCUSS!


--> Note to the moderators and to the posters: This is a SERIOUS discussion. One sentence responses with "because it makes me pwn newbs" is not allowed.

This post has been edited by Adrien.: Sep 7 2011, 08:29 AM

[Adrien.]

RESPONSE TO ALL

How do levels help you see weather your character has gown as a person in a "real" world? How does a level, a number, a stat change show the growth of a character through a story?

Were so worried about levels and battles and balanced this and steady that. it's not "This" as someone pointed out so bluntly. It's not based on fighting small things and becoming strong enough to wield the sword of doom. If you were a character going through a game to find the dark lord of doom where do levels come in play? in battles? in solving puzzles? what is the sole purpose of a level? to show growth? what kind? stat? do you ever see people today using levels to show actual growth of a character? to measure the characters growth in society to say "you were shy once, now you're a confident person?" no you see levels used to show the strongest creature you can kill.

If growth is measured by a level...…how do we measure growth of a real human in life...…REAL LIFE...? can that be brought into the game to show growth of a character? or are we so blinded by the stereo typical reality of what the meaning of the word level is that we are incredibly blind to the other possible meanings of it?

And continue.

[nohmaan]

Think about learning a martial art, you start at white belt, then progress yellow, gold, orange, green, etc... to black-- and then up to specific degrees of black belt. You could consider these as levels- and the time between each level advancement increases similar to the experience in RPGs (mainly because that's the way people actually progress in learning skills.)

Also consider a weight lifter. They progress in ability and weight, which is a numerical value. You may start bench pressing 105 lbs, but after a few months you can be up to 225.

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If growth is measured by a level...…how do we measure growth of a real human in life...…REAL LIFE...? can that be brought into the game to show growth of a character? or are we so blinded by the stereo typical reality of what the meaning of the word level is that we are incredibly blind to the other possible meanings of it?