Classika, 5hr playable demo. Feedback greatly desired! Options

[amerk]

I like the idea of monsters dropping items, but maybe they should drop them at a higher rate, and make them more worthwhile to go after and grind for.

I think if monsters are a bit easier to fight (less HP more return damage), and items easier to purchase, that would definitely help a lot. Your first dungeon is enormous, so maybe some sort of direction would help, however just by making monster combat worthwhile and a little easier since there are so many monsters to battle with would make traversing the forest area much more exciting. In turn, easier combat, more return for the monster droppings, would help to eliminate the need for running back and forth into town, except for when you want to sell all your monster droppings to purchase upgrades.

As for mapping suggestions, I really didn't have much problems with the mapping other than the cave and jail dungeons. Could the outside and interiors be better? Probably? Are they terribly needed? Not unless you are trying to improve the look of the game. They get the job done, which is all anybody can really ask. There are a lot of tutorials available that can definitely help, and I recommend looking at them as well as other people's games to get ideas.

http://www.rpgmakervx.net/index.php?showtopic=2470

The above link has a huge section on mapping, but you have to register to view the postings (it's free, of course). This site focuses primarily on using rpg maker vx. Most of the tutorials here use Mack tilesets though, but several also use the original RTP:

http://www.rpgmakervx.net/index.php?showtopic=23331
http://www.rpgmakervx.net/index.php?showtopic=31365
http://www.rpgmakervx.net/index.php?showtopic=28381
http://www.rpgmakervx.net/index.php?showtopic=33159 (excellent tut on detail and even tinting)
http://www.rpgmakervx.net/index.php?showtopic=33471
http://www.rpgmakervx.net/index.php?showtopic=22070
http://www.rpgmakervx.net/?showtopic=2314
http://www.rpgmakervx.net/index.php?showtopic=34054

The default tileset does not offer a lot of options when it comes to mapping, but with practice it can still get the job done. Just think about what a normal layout of a house would look like, and what types of furniture and decorations it would include. Also, you can always use events to add to the map as well, especially when you want to overlap and add layers (but too many events causes lag, so you may also need an anti-lag script).

This post has been edited by amerk: Jul 7 2011, 11:26 AM

[bulmabriefs144]

Zortik, I love the avatar.

Dance magic dance!

I'll see if I love the game as much.

This post has been edited by bulmabriefs144: Jul 11 2011, 04:05 PM

[Zortik]

Amerk,
I really appreciate you taking the time to go through and link me to numerous direct links that will help me to improve my mapping. You could have just provided a link to the master list and that alone would have been supremely helpful! I am going to particularly look into the tinting portion and see if I can't find any good starting points to create a smoother atmosphere.
I've also taken the battles into consideration and while I don't have a solution for it yet, I am trying to write out an equation that I can use in Excel. I'm currently thinking along the lines that it should take 10 monsters (on average) that need to be killed before you can afford a new weapon, 8 for armor, and 16 for an accessory. This would set the bar for both the cost of items and the value of the loot dropped from monsters. So, if you're lucky you could get enough loot from monsters in only 6 or 7 battles and you can afford that new weapon. On the flip side your luck might be sour for the moment and it'll take you 12-13 battles. In order to pull this off I will be continuing with my current method of having each creature have more than 1 piece of loot it can drop. Basically, there will be a common item with the highest chance of dropping that sells for a meager amount. But there is also the chance of a more expensive bit of loot dropping at a smaller chance.

Right now, the Snapdragons for instance now have the following drop rate:
Broken Plant Stem 40% drop rate (Sells for 4G)
Torn Vine 15% drop rate (Sells for 7G)

But the Long Knife cost 120g to buy. Which means at a 1:1 cheap drop rate it would still take 30 monsters to be slain before you could afford this. In an effort to offset this grind, I placed numerous treasure chests all throughout the maps with Gold in them. (Everything I'm explaining is available in the demo you played)

So, I believe the correct solution for what needs to be done here is that I need to raise the value of the drops by a small amount and possibly filter out some of the filler chests (There are ample treasure chests scattered throughout the majority of the maps, but about 35% of them contain Gold. Another 35% are various healing items, and the remaining 30% consist of equipment of varying value/strength)

bulmabriiefs144,
Thanks for the love! I try to encourage as many people as possible to watch this classic gem!

I don't think I'm NEARLY as good as a designer to make you love Classika as much as the avatar though!
However, I will certainly hope that when you do find the opportunity to play through the game that you'll take the time to get back to me on your thoughts of it. Naturally my fingers will be crossed (This might make it hard to type...) that you'll return with some positive feedback about how much fun you had and/or what you liked about it. Since I'll be hoping for that response it should come as no surprise that I'll be expecting a less than stellar review. In which case all I can ask is that if one thing or another bothered you, please take the time and explain how you would like to see this corrected. Admittedly, not everything can be remade in the manner each player wants. But in many situations when people take the time to show me an alternative method (Or, as Stern did and showed me a side by side screen shot for comparison on how to improve something) It helps me expand the way I think and/or do things.

[amerk]

The first link in that post was to the master list, however since you were using the RTP I didn't know if tutorials using the mack tilesets would help or not, which is why I had indicated the others. But that's not to say the other tutorials are no help at all, because they are.

In any case, your equation does sound reasonable. I think the area of concern came in how high simple restoratives can be. If monsters were to drop these more often, that would also help. In addition, by the time you wind up in the cave dungeon, it's such a long track back, and there aren't any upcoming merchants for the time being, at least not until you've escaped the jail area.

So an idea to help this would be to encourage people to stalk up before they get captured. One such option is near the cave, maybe the next screen over to the left or right, add a hermit-like merchant that lives in a tent. He doesn't like people, which is why he moved way out here, but still needs to make a living, so he's willing to sell some items and even let our party stay the night in the tent for a fee.

This way, the player can still level grind around the cave and not worry having to try and go all the way back to town (which I can't remember if they can do since they snuck out to the cave against the town's will).

This post has been edited by amerk: Jul 15 2011, 08:19 AM

[Zortik]

It's been a little while since I've last posted an update about how Classika is coming along. I'll try and keep it short and to the point.

I've been trying to learn how to write my own battle melodies so that I can further customize my own skills. I've managed to create about 10 skills from scratch along with their own unique animations. This will be an ongoing project that I'll be working on here and there until I reach a point where I can replace all of the skills currently in use by enemies and characters alike. At which point in time there will be a complete skill overhaul. Some skills will be removed, others redone. I am working on these intermittently and doubt they'll be finished anytime in the near future.

In an effort to encourage players to make use of their skills more often I've incorporated a new skill called 'Rest' which will allow the player to sacrifice a turn in battle to regenerate SP. The SP recovered is Spirit based.

There is now a small hut just near the cave outside of Wollen. You can purchase some simple supplies here or pay to take a rest there as well.

I've cut out a portion of the Wollen forest to reduce it's scale and remove the paths that double back on one another. This was done in order to assist with navigation. The only way to get to the eastern portion of the forest where the mushroom grove is located is by taking the eastern path outside of Wollen. Likewise for reaching the western portion of the forest can only be reached by taking the western path just outside of town.

Adjusted the movement ratio for monsters that pursue you to engage a battle from a 1:1 ration to a 1:2 ratio. So it takes 2 of your steps for them to take a single one.
Most enemies who moved at random and were at a 1:2 ratio are now at a 1:1 ratio.
The enemies who moved opposite have had no changes made to them.

Increased the value of monster dropped loot so the player does not have to farm nearly as much in order to afford equipment and items.

Adjusted the database values on enemies in various area's including reduced HP, increased Atk, and adjustment to skills.

The game as a whole is currently at a stage where it can accommodate Alpha testers for the most current chapter. There are still several area's that are optional and not yet finished, but the core story is present and ready to go. Of the optional things I am working on the following:

A mage tower that is located south of Morriston. This is sitting at 65% completion. I am currently working on the final 3 floors of the tower and figuring out the reward for reaching the top of the tower.

The bounty shop in Phendra is there and populated but I have not yet done the event work for turning in the Chimera Paw and them opening up the ability to find and kill other wanted creatures/people for base rewards. As this will be an ongoing project throughout the game I will only be providing a percentage for completion that is relevant to this point in the demo. 80%

This post has been edited by Zortik: Jul 28 2011, 09:46 PM

[Zortik]

The latest version of Classika is now available and ready to play! I've updated the main thread for the links to the new downloads, but will also provide them here.

08/04/2011

RTP Included

08/04/2011

RTP Excluded

There is approximately 2 hours worth of additional story and gameplay added with this demo. Enjoy!

Included is a generic save file that will start you off in Morriston shortly after you acquire Vance. This is for those whom have played Classika before and either no longer have their own save file to copy over, or have tried the demo at other points in time and wish to skip some of the beginning story.
I would like to point out that there was some work done on the beginning of the game as well. Nothing critical to the storyline, so if you really don't want to get through the Wollen Forest again by all means use the save file.

This post has been edited by Zortik: Aug 5 2011, 08:59 PM

[Logan110]

I was going to download but I don't see any links. Am I somehow missing them?

[Stern]

@Logan110: Click the blue images where it says: "Click here to download"

Also, keep up the good work Zortik!

This post has been edited by Stern: Aug 4 2011, 08:08 AM

[Zortik]

@Logan110: Click the blue images where it says: "Click here to download"

Also, keep up the good work Zortik!

Thanks for the assist, Stern.

Let me know if you have any other problems, Logan110. But if you click the image of whichever download you want, it'll take you directly to the mediafire page where the file is hosted.

[Logan110]

Yea for some reason I don't see the image. Im assuming they would be below the bolded text of RTP Inluded / Excluded

Thats a ss of what I see.
http://imageshack.us/f/832/posta.png/


*Edit*
I went into the pages source and pulled out the link myself. Not sure why it won't load on my browser...

*Edit 2*
The game freezes when you make it back to town. It's during the scene when you go back into Cathy's house the 2nd time.

This post has been edited by Logan110: Aug 5 2011, 12:35 PM

[Zortik]

Just updated the new downloads with a hot fixed game that corrected the game breaking error for when you returned to Wollen.

The error came about after recently making some mapping changes to all of the indoor maps. I had missed one of the events where an event was walking out of the house, but there was no longer enough grass tile for them to complete the action.

Sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused. Please copy over your save file to the new demo and you should encounter no further issues.

[Zortik]

Remapped the first forest for a smoother/easier to navigate layout. Currently updating the various events to line up with these changes.

I've also begun the tremendous task of overhauling the skills and battle system. I've got the core of what I want down, right now I just need to properly expand upon it all and test it completely.

I'm thrilled to also announce that there is a wonderful new feature present in Classika. You can now use 'Flash Pellets' on the map by pressing the 'W' key. You'll need to have some in your inventory, naturally, but you can throw them up to 5 spots away. If it hits an object it'll be stopped, but if it hits an enemy it'll completely stun that enemy on the map for 4 seconds. Allowing you to safely pass by without the risk of starting a battle!

For the Wollen Forest and Underpass, those who have played Classika will also be happy to note that I made the rat sprites larger. No more hiding in tall grass and ambushing you. ^^

These features are not currently present in the available demo. They have not yet reached a point where they are fully functional, and it'll be a few weeks before there is even a chance of that.

In the meanwhile though, I am still hoping for some feedback from the most recently released demo. In addition to the flow of the story I've tried something new with the Konami Tower that is south of Morriston. Puzzles! No worries though, there will not be any random encounters hindering your progress as you try to solve them. Though there will be some battles, especially if you answer something wrong. ^_~

[Stern]

Uber-Big-Hello!

So I've played the next part of the demo. I've spoilered everything because I talk about parts that are massive spoilers. If you're a potential player of Classika I will advice you not to read my entire post.

Statistics:

[Show/Hide] Statistics

Time played: My latest savefile is 4:56. However, the actual number is closer to 5:30. Because I was not able to save after beating the demo because of a gamebreaking bug. More on that in the bugs section.
Steps taken: 17 000
Gold: 3190

Statistics for Leah


AP spent on:

Health Points +5
Attack +6
Accuracy +1

Level: 12
Weapon: Lightning Spear
Shield: None
Head: Banded Leather Helm
Body: Light Leather Armor
Accessory: Rusted Necklace x2

Statistics for Ethan

AP spent on:

Health Points +4
Skill Points + 6
Spirit +1
Accuracy +1


Level: 12
Weapon: Spiked Club
Shield: Wind Shield
Head: Banded Leather Helm
Body: Light Leather Armor
Accessory: Rusted Necklace, Minor Power Charm


Statistics for Vance

AP spent on:

Health Points +3
Skill Points + 2
Attack +5
Accuracy +1
And one point that I forgot to spend.


Level: 12
Weapon: Spiked Club
Shield: Wind Shield
Head: Banded Leather Helm
Body: Light Leather Armor
Accessory: Rusted Necklace, Minor Power Charm

General Feedback

[Show/Hide] General

Story & Characters
The story is coming along quite well with some interesting turns and twists. I can honestly say that I didn't see the massacre of Woollen coming at all. It seemed like such a light-hearted game at start. I did like it though, I'm all for dark/twisted/sad stories. The conversations remain as quirky as ever. There isn't much to comment on that I haven't already brought up in my first post, except that I'm looking forward to finding out how the story unfolds.

Combat

I got a sneak peak on the new work-in-progress combat system. It might still need some balancing, but other than that, It felt more interesting. The combat still suffer a bit from what I mentioned in my first post:

The actual difficulty on the encounters was pretty easy. To me, the cost of heal spells felt a bit high. Most of the time I found myself just using normal attacks and saving the SP for heals.

It's not so much the heals that costs too much, rather than the overall SP cost is very high on all abilities. Many abilities don't deal that much more damage than a normal attack and I didn't feel the need to use them against anything other than bosses.

Environment & Atmosphere

I've noticed that you upgraded a couple of maps after I pointed out some stuff. The maps can still be improved quite a lot, but it's not even near 'gross' or 'bland' . There's still a few mapping errors and I've put the ones I found together in a .psd to make it easier on me ;D

As for the music, I think it's still only RTP, but again, nothing feels out of place except one little bit: When you leave Woollen after the massacre the cheerful forest music starts again, but when you walk down to Woollen again the forest music still plays. It got pretty creepy with such a happy tune playing in a blooddrenched village.

Some Flaws/Bugs with Advice

Problem: The Woollen forest is massive. In fact, most of your explorable areas are massive. I often found myself lost
Possible solution: Make every third/fourth map a bit more memorable. Add an obscure statue or a strangely shaped walkway. This will ease on the player trying to figure out if they've already been in this area or not.

Problem: After fighting the Chimera I was around level 11-ish. The way back to woollen was very far and crawling with low level mobs that barely granted any exp. It became tedious to fight them for almost no reward.
Possible solution: Make the lower level mobs stop chasing you if you're above a certain level.

Problem: Your cities are a bit barren. They're also very big. They don't feel very lively. There's the odd NPC walking around, but since you make the maps so large it feels very empty.
Possible solution: I would try to shrink the cities a little bit making them a bit more packed. You can PM me if you want some examples.

Problem: This might be a minor thing, but... The poison fades after battle. This renders the condition pretty weak against your party as the battles don't last longer than 1-2 turns in most of the cases. This also makes the amulet that grants poison immunity very useless.
Possible solution: Buff the damage of the poison or make it last through battles.

Problem: Your interior design on generic houses is HUGE. There's one NPC on the bottom floor. It has about 10 smaller rooms and a top floor. It feels like a mansion of some sort. Not all houses have this design, but most do ;D
Possible solution: Make the houses a bit smaller, or add more NPCs that live there. It doesn't make much sense for 1 person to have a 20 room mansion if he's living alone

Problem: After beating the thugs at the end of the demo I could walk pretty much everywhere. No passability setting could stop me!
Possible solution: Don't forget to turn of 'through' .

TL;DR - The latest version of Classika shows that it has some nice potential story-wise and it improves on the combat that was already good.

EDIT: Added the link to the PSD under Environment & Atmosphere. I also tried the Flash Pellets (another sneak peak). They are glorious and they practically render this comment useless:

Problem: After fighting the Chimera I was around level 11-ish. The way back to woollen was very far and crawling with low level mobs that barely granted any exp. It became tedious to fight them for almost no reward.
Possible solution: Make the lower level mobs stop chasing you if you're above a certain level.

/Regards,
Stern

This post has been edited by Stern: Aug 16 2011, 10:54 AM

[amerk]

While Stern poses a few suggestions that may otherwise be a matter of opinion, I have to say I like his idea about creating landmarks in dungeon areas to easily identify where you are and enemy NPCs after reaching a certain level.

I haven't gotten around to playing the revised demo yet, but it seems that the combat is for the better now, while spell casting should probably have the cost lowered.

[literarygoth]

Most of my assistance has been provided via msn, so I figured it was about time to post in your topic ^-^

Stern has gone and covered a vast majority of things I would have (and did) bring up, and has also provided some excellent suggestions to get around potential problems (hats off to you sir).

I really like the story as you're setting it up, the only major problem leering at me - from a writers' perspective - is the direct play through from one plot point to another. I'd like to see some more life in your towns, especially Wollen. I agree with Stern, I didn't see that coming, and I think you could really create a larger impact on the player by getting them more attached to Wollen in the beginning.

I really like the conversations, they're much more lively than I've seen in some commercial games. People actually talk. I also loved the limerick told by the one npc in Morriston - add more of this to npc's and it'll make the villagers feel more life like.

Also, I really enjoy the changes, ideas and concepts you've been discussing with me and I think Classika is going to develop into a very interesting game with the amount of work you're putting into it.
I'd suggest possibly adding some more interactivity to your maps, and definitely shrinking them down a touch. Personally, I very rarely make maps larger than 30 x 30.

Keep up the hard work, and you know where to find me if you need suggestions/feedback ^-^

[Stern]

Hallo (again!)

I played through the Konami tower sidequest, although not being able to beat the last boss, but I'd say I saw enough to give some feedback.

I liked pretty much all of the puzzles, although the absolute first one is like an age barrier. I did grow up during the NES/SNES era, but at that time I was quite young and I never cheated! ( ). However, due to being very interested in gaming and gaming history I knew about the konami code from earlier. I'm not sure a lot of people will though, which is why it's great that there seems to be another way of acquiring the answer. One more last thing... I think it'd be easier if you placed the "directional portals" more like the arrows on the numpad because the tricky part of the puzzle wasn't knowing the konami code, but knowing which color was which direction ;D

For the 2nd puzzle, I failed the first time because I got hit a few times trying to make overambitious runs. Second time I just finished it with 8 seconds left, but I did get hit a few times. I suppose I'm kind of clumsy.

The third puzzle was the riddles, if I remember correctly. I managed to complete them all without violence with some assistance on the fragile riddle. Though I have to admit that I got it right by purely guessing in the 10,15 cent riddle.

4th puzzle was a bit confusing at the start but after 3 resets I manage to push the boulder the right way. Pretty balanced difficulty.

5th one I just purely guessed two random switched and got it right on the first try. I was a bit puzzled at the poetic riddles

All in all, it's a nice little sidequest, but I do feel like it should be closer to the third town (the name escapes me) as it's balanced for a full party.

Good job as always, keep it up!

Regards,
Stern

[Zortik]

Thanks for all of the feedback! I will be taking all of the suggestions under careful consideration and also working hard to fix and bugs or errors that were pointed out!

I'll be making a post later (Or just editing this one if it's still the most recent) with my replies back to you all.

Right now I wanted to take some time to brain storm, so to speak, about how I will be changing Classika's battle system and how this will in turn affect the opening portion of the game.

As a battle system offers more options for strategy beyond the very basic commands (attack, spells, guard, run), It's a pretty good idea to put the player through the ropes somehow. Whether it's through a text explanation, an event battle that is littered with forced actions and dialogue, etc.. For what I will be trying, I've decided to remake the beginning of Classika by adding additional story and explaining several new features that will be implemented in the game.

For the actual battle system. The previous menu was incredibly straight forward and beyond the renaming of spells to skills, didn't have any unique flavor of its own. So, in an effort to breathe some life into the battle system, I went into the script for Melody and began playing around. After a while of just reading and exploring, I managed to make it so I could change the basic attack menu. It now looks like this:
Fast
Normal
Fierce
Skill
Guard
Item
Equip
Escape

Fast: Fast Attack. Allows the player to attack quicker than normal, accuracy is also increased but power is reduced. (Fast Attacks also removes the buff 'Swift' which enhances the targets Agility and Evasion while it's active.) Fast attack has 120% accuracy and hits for 80% of your attack power.
Normal: Normal Attack. No buffs or deductions. The player attacks with base accuracy and attack power.
Fierce: Fierce Attack. The player sacrifices speed to hit harder, attacking slower than normal. Accuracy is also reduced for the increase to raw attack power. (Fierce attack also removes the buff 'Sturdy' which enhances the targets Attack and Defense while it's active.) Fierce attack has 80% accuracy and hits for 120% of your attack power.

In addition to these base attack I am overhauling all of the skills. I'll be adding a significant amount of new skills while simultaneously reworking them to better fit the new system. With these new states, skills, and attack options I'll be able to add in some more strategy to boss fights. As opposed to just making them have more HP, atk power, etc.

I'd love for any input on all of this as well as any suggestions for other states or ways to make use of them in a new/creative manner. I'm not so conceited as to think I know all of the tricks right away.

In addition to the huge battle system overhaul I've also redid all of the stats for all of the characters. I manually entered each and every stat in so I could better control how they develop naturally through leveling.

Stern also touched on the flash pellets which I am working on. These nifty little items will be available from the beginning of the game and allow you to stun enemies on the map for 4 seconds, allowing you to run right by them without them moving or starting a battle.

[amerk]

This sounds like it will make the battle system quite interesting. It will definitely allow for more creative combinations, especially when certain skills are applied (ie., using the Fast attack when a skill that makes a person stronger has been applied).

[amerk]

Classika has been previewed.

See the topic here!

[Zortik]

Classika has been previewed.

See the topic here!

Thanks so much for this. My one biggest regret is that you didn't have the chance to see some of the changes I've made. Many of which were to directly impact some of your grievances. But, you know what, I'm still pleased with the honest opinion and synopsis you provided for the title.

Thank you.

I'll post an additional comment on that thread to address a few things.