Time Wasting Mechanics, Things we don't need in games Options

[titan_jojo]

Some of the things i don't like: Random battles(Not every time but they can get boring at times especially if escaping is not easy), long text or conversations(really don't like reading long line of text) and difficult puzzles if they are required to finish the game(not every gamer is smart enough to figure out the solution but I guess they can't be avoided).

[JinjerJack]

One thing I dislike for some reason is the so called "Synthesis System" where you give up items to gain a more powerful one.

Some of you might like it, but for me having the fact that you you have to go around collecting stuff to create a new thing is just a waste of time. It also, sometimes, distracts gamers from the main story of the game, making them focus instead on getting materials to create that more powerful weapon or piece of armor.

It becomes fun in games where you have a "post-game" chapter in which you can freely roam around. It gives you a new goal to work for during the free time you have, but, a lot of games, as far as I know, don't have these "post-game" chapters.

Besides, legendary weapons are usually found as treasures, right? And I always did love treasure-hunting. Just as long as I didn't have to repeat the same mission multiple times just to get the required amount of items to create that thing you've been dreaming of. Or, in other words, farming for materials.

Or maybe it's all just me.

Cheers.

JJ

[bulmabriefs144]

One thing I dislike for some reason is the so called "Synthesis System" where you give up items to gain a more powerful one.

Some of you might like it, but for me having the fact that you you have to go around collecting stuff to create a new thing is just a waste of time. It also, sometimes, distracts gamers from the main story of the game, making them focus instead on getting materials to create that more powerful weapon or piece of armor.

Or worse, a limited amount of that item are handed out, in which case you get a painful choice in addition to the time you spent getting the item (do I use this rare and powerful spear to gain a boomerang that damages all enemies? Or do I keep the spear?)

This post has been edited by bulmabriefs144: Nov 12 2011, 06:32 PM

[Cozzer]

Or worse, a limited amount of that item are handed out, in which case you get a painful choice in addition to the time you spent getting the item (do I use this rare and powerful spear to gain a boomerang that damages all enemies? Or do I keep the spear?)

I think painful choices are a good thing in games... for example, I'd like a synthesis system that lets you choose upgrades for the characters' weapons. You wouldn't have to grind for everything (since it would be either an upgrade or the other).

[TheCableGuy]

Absolutely Worst thing I hate is Random battles.... And not just random Battles but Poorly adjusted Chance at Random Battles that force you to Fight non-stop. Some games I've played literally had you walking across large Maps with the Chance per Random Battle set to like every 2-3 steps out of a Map that has you walk 200-300 Steps...often needing to cross the same map several times.

Games like that have totally ruined Random battles for me. I'd much prefer games that have the Enemy mobs as actual NPC/Sprites on the map and you can choose to fight or avoid on choice..... a Plus to games that actually Hide the mobs until Proximity and/or Mob moves towards you.

Walls of Text don't Bother me too much so long as you have the option to Speed Scroll through it but any game that removes the control from the player and SLOWLY forces the player to sit through inane conversations and/or long backstories that could of easily been summarized and/or Woven into the Game Progression (which actually makes for a BETTER overall story, imho) just make my eyes bleed.

[Arbor]

I remember playing through FF1. There was one part in a cave where literally every two steps there was a random battle. For no reason.

I may be a bit picky but I actually find walking a bit of a waste of time...unless there's really an absolute reason for it. That's why I like games where either you just select where your going on a large map and movement is a battle thing (like in tactics or RTS games).

One thing I think is a huge waste of time is meaningless dialogue. Games filled with meaningless dialogue, puns, or complete sentences. People don't talk like that most of the time. Without using complete sentences you can communicate twice the meaning in half the time.

[koei126]

I remember playing through FF1. There was one part in a cave where literally every two steps there was a random battle. For no reason.

I may be a bit picky but I actually find walking a bit of a waste of time...unless there's really an absolute reason for it. That's why I like games where either you just select where your going on a large map and movement is a battle thing (like in tactics or RTS games).

One thing I think is a huge waste of time is meaningless dialogue. Games filled with meaningless dialogue, puns, or complete sentences. People don't talk like that most of the time. Without using complete sentences you can communicate twice the meaning in half the time.

It really depends. I like the free roaming, it makes me feel more involved. Yet the battle every 2-3 steps does get flipping annoying.

[bulmabriefs144]

I remember playing through FF1. There was one part in a cave where literally every two steps there was a random battle. For no reason.

I may be a bit picky but I actually find walking a bit of a waste of time...unless there's really an absolute reason for it. That's why I like games where either you just select where your going on a large map and movement is a battle thing (like in tactics or RTS games).

One thing I think is a huge waste of time is meaningless dialogue. Games filled with meaningless dialogue, puns, or complete sentences. People don't talk like that most of the time. Without using complete sentences you can communicate twice the meaning in half the time.

It depends hugely on what you mean by a complete sentence. You can have a sentence with just one word. But you can also have really go wrong with lack of conversation, as some people like when things are flushed out. Personally, I like the idea that an RPG is an interactive book, with developed plot, rather than just something pretty graphically.

Rule of thumb: Use colloquial and make it believable. But don't have hackneyed sentences like "U're stoopid." It'll just make your game look amateurish and cruddy.

This post has been edited by bulmabriefs144: Nov 14 2011, 04:07 PM

[JinjerJack]

I remember playing through FF1. There was one part in a cave where literally every two steps there was a random battle. For no reason.

I may be a bit picky but I actually find walking a bit of a waste of time...unless there's really an absolute reason for it. That's why I like games where either you just select where your going on a large map and movement is a battle thing (like in tactics or RTS games).

One thing I think is a huge waste of time is meaningless dialogue. Games filled with meaningless dialogue, puns, or complete sentences. People don't talk like that most of the time. Without using complete sentences you can communicate twice the meaning in half the time.

Ha, I do remember suffering that when I played through FF1 20th Anniversary Edition on my PSP. I left that cave, and never came back...

In my opinion though, the dialogue is kind of a way to reinforce the setting and plot of the game. For example, the fact that they talk so formally and properly means that the setting of the game is similar our Medieval time. That's how they talked at that time, right?

Plus, the swords and the armor somehow hints that they could be in the Medieval time in they kingdom.

[amerk]

I remember playing through FF1. There was one part in a cave where literally every two steps there was a random battle. For no reason.

I may be a bit picky but I actually find walking a bit of a waste of time...unless there's really an absolute reason for it. That's why I like games where either you just select where your going on a large map and movement is a battle thing (like in tactics or RTS games).

One thing I think is a huge waste of time is meaningless dialogue. Games filled with meaningless dialogue, puns, or complete sentences. People don't talk like that most of the time. Without using complete sentences you can communicate twice the meaning in half the time.

The Hall of Giants in the Earth Cave, I think it was the very far left side from where you enter. That was intentional, though, as it was meant as a secret for people looking for some quick EXP from some powerful foes. But the downside was halfway through the hallway when you realize you are outnumbered and you have about another 6 or 7 more battles whether or not you choose to go forward or back, and you are hurting for health and supplies, then all that hard work gets wasted.

@ Cozzer: Glad I'm not the only that was upset with FF3DS. While most of the game was okay, I wasn't too intrigued by the story, but that final dungeon sucked! The first time I fought through it for about 3 and 1/2 hours (nowhere to save), only to die on the final boss. Through on some cheat codes (only way I was going to play it through one last time), skipped most of the battles/items, etc., and it still took me close to 2 hours to get all the way through it.

[Cozzer]

@ Cozzer: Glad I'm not the only that was upset with FF3DS. While most of the game was okay, I wasn't too intrigued by the story, but that final dungeon sucked! The first time I fought through it for about 3 and 1/2 hours (nowhere to save), only to die on the final boss. Through on some cheat codes (only way I was going to play it through one last time), skipped most of the battles/items, etc., and it still took me close to 2 hours to get all the way through it.

I think I gave up in frustration WAY before the final dungeon.
I really hate when developers mistake design faults for features (which is something you see very often in remakes or in games that try to be "retro", even in the RPGMaker community...)

[Oceans Dream]

@ Cozzer: Glad I'm not the only that was upset with FF3DS. While most of the game was okay, I wasn't too intrigued by the story, but that final dungeon sucked! The first time I fought through it for about 3 and 1/2 hours (nowhere to save), only to die on the final boss. Through on some cheat codes (only way I was going to play it through one last time), skipped most of the battles/items, etc., and it still took me close to 2 hours to get all the way through it.

I think I gave up in frustration WAY before the final dungeon.
I really hate when developers mistake design faults for features (which is something you see very often in remakes or in games that try to be "retro", even in the RPGMaker community...)

You can play off of peoples nostalgia without having to rely on bad/outdated game design. SNES/PSX era sort of hit a nicer spot where you weren't relying on difficulty to pad a 2 hour game into a 60 hour one, or later games where you put filler content just because an audience expects 60+ hours of gameplay on the cover of the box in order to buy the game.

I like FF1 for nostalgia sake but I can't bring myself to play past Elfland. Marsh Cave, Ice Cave (SORCERORS), Earth Cave, a bunch of these places are just filled with annoyances and any loss is going to set you back a ton.

[bulmabriefs144]

Btw, feelings on bonus dungeons? Good, or a waste of time?

[Arbor]

good if they bring something more to the game.

[amerk]

It depends on the content. In Final Fantasy X, some of the bonus dungeons helped enhance the backstory of some of the characters. In some of the RM games I've seen, a bonus dungeon offers a chance to learn more about the developer (sort of like an easter egg). And some might be for endurance.

I can't play a Wild Arm game without trying to get through the Abyss, even though the reward for it (which boosts my stats way up) is pointless by the time I'm strong enough to get through it. But still I play it more for the endurance and the wit of solving puzzles.

On the other hand, I never got into Parasite Eve's 100+ Floor Chrysler building, because it was way too exhausting and tedious, and offered nothing to the main storyline.

[Cozzer]

You can play off of peoples nostalgia without having to rely on bad/outdated game design.

I completely and absolutely agree with you. But good luck explaining that to the average "retrogamer" who spends half of his time grinding and the other half complaining that newer games don't force him to spend that half grinding too.

About bonus dungeon, I think they should be one of two types:
- A dungeon bound to the plot (or, as Amerk said, that expands characters' backgrounds), about as difficult or slightly more difficult than the main quest, with minor awards (for example, a weapon more powerful than the ones you can buy, but not so powerful that the rest of the game will be a breeze).
- A dungeon with hyper powerful enemies and bosses, that awards you with uber weapons, spells, etc, but almost completely cut off from the story.

This way, I can see everything about the plot without having to get to level 100 to defeat OmegaSomething and without ruining the pathos of the endgame.
If I want to challenge uber-powerful enemies, I'll just do it after the game is over.

This post has been edited by Cozzer: Nov 15 2011, 03:20 PM

[Eden]

I hate unaccounted random battles.

Especially when you don't know what you'll run into. I was never a fan of it.

I agree to some degree. (Haha, I rhymed...)

I disliked the Final Fantasy random encounter function. Walking only three steps and finding yourself affronted by one - six enemies at a time, shredding down my party's hp/mp.
However,
I DID enjoy Pokemon's version of the random encounter function. Although some could argue that the encounter system isn't truly random in the sense that you can never know when, or where you'll be engaged, seeing as you have a clear clue at the beginning of most games, saying "wild Pokemon only attack you in tall grass", I still feel it's a random-enough encounter function to qualify. The games are, and have always been, fun and enjoyable to play.

[bulmabriefs144]

I'm actually a grinding fan (loves MapleStory).

What annoys me more is sidegames, where your personal luck or skill (or worse, your timing) is in play, and you repeatedly have to do it again (because it's absurdly hard), to get to proceed.

Birth By Sleep's ice cream rhythm game is a prime example. In a day of pure grind, I'd likely be at level 50 or so with any reasonable leveling system (100, 200, 300 exp modifiers btw will give you D&D style exp, and this is fast enough for most games). In a day of trying on that rhythm game, nothing, due to its need of 1000 or more. It took nearly a week, the final part with ZERO interruptions to get over 1000 and just clear the stupid challenge. I never tried it again.

[Kaust]

I'm actually a grinding fan (loves MapleStory).

Birth By Sleep's ice cream rhythm game is a prime example. In a day of pure grind, I'd likely be at level 50 or so with any reasonable leveling system (100, 200, 300 exp modifiers btw will give you D&D style exp, and this is fast enough for most games). In a day of trying on that rhythm game, nothing, due to its need of 1000 or more. It took nearly a week, the final part with ZERO interruptions to get over 1000 and just clear the stupid challenge. I never tried it again.

Haha, I totally agree. Both me and my mate (both musicians, so I dno, I guess we consider ourselves to have rhythm) found this not only frustrating (bruising our musical pride) but the fact that we couldnt continue the game without completing it was detrimental to it. Especially since we were both pretty disappointed with the game on the whole.

I think it can be observed from the whole thread, some liking grinding (some hating), some like minigames (again some hating) shows that the only way to overcome the players personal preference would be to prevent them being directly tied to the main story or however the game is continued. This way they become optional, though I suppose then the player possibly misses out some of the games 'features'