Hero Design, Character design for the mains Options

[Sparrowsmith]

I can get on board with that.
The question is, who would she be? Did she know Johnny before the event that put him in a coma? If so, what was their relation? To be in layer 3 she would have to originate from layer 3, but which layer does she first contact Johnny in?
And how does she tie into the plot?

In order to fully connect with the plot, she'd have to be one of the main heroes in Layer 1. Probably either of the girls (or possibly "Kevin"). Really vague I know, but let's rule out the two who haven't got the game in the start. It might be good to keep it vague, revealing that there is a 3rd layer character that's been playing the game but keeping it unknown until the final (it would give us more time to puzzle it out)

For alot of this, we'd have to figure out what the original accident was that put him in the coma. She's sort of trying to secretly pull him out of it, which would be basically her plot, but she's acting like she's involved in the party's quest. Ummm, I don't know what you mean relation, they're bf/gf. Let's say she sought him out after about a year of searching layer 2.

I don't think she'd fit in well with layer 1, I also don't want the programmers all knowing about Johnny being in a coma. It should be revealed during the game. They should know there was an accident, but as far as they know he's dead.

By relation I mean, how did they meet? How close were they?
It's all well and good to say that she and Johnny used to date, and then Johnny had his accident, but that was years ago. Did she move on, was their relationship serious. Is layer 2 Johnny a substitute for her, or a different but similar person who just happens to be Johnny. When Johnny wakes up as L2 Johnny, how will she feel about her new romantic interest looking exactly like her previous one?

We shouldn't force this. We have to ask ourselves if these characters would be comfortable with all this.
Lets say that she does seek Johnny out, and wakes him up. what then? She wants her Johnny, and I doubt L2 Johnny would be comfortable being treat like a guy who, for all intents and purposes, is dead.
Their relationship should progress naturally for it to work. They should like each other for who they really are. No tricks or secrets or hidden motives, which means they can only really start a relationship once they're both fully aware of the situation, but by that point they'll think it's impossible.

Basically, this is going to be a difficult relationship to write. I don't wanna over simplify it or no one will ever believe it.



In other news, Mohawk Kevin looks great.
I think he should look like that in layer 3 as well (or very similar) so that Johnny has something to connect to.
I mean, if you looked that cool, would you change how you look in layer 2?
Alternatively the dress code of the programmers might have him looking very different, and this is how he used to look (and hence how he chooses to look in layer 2). It all depends on how progressive the company is.

[bulmabriefs144]

Kevin (left) and Eddy (right)

I need some help with the spiky mohawk. I tried to import hair onto a bald head and it just looked bad.

Ohhhh. We could have a scene where they meet each other in the street or something (she's flashbacking). Maybe he was lost, and asked directions, and she showed him around, and they stayed in touch. They were about to be married before the accident or something, but that accident (what was it, a thunderstorm, a car accident, what?) kind of ruined plans. The doctors said that might not remember anything when he comes out of it, so she's pretty much downgraded it to maybe a friendship (she isn't giving up though, and was the one who put VR equipment on his sleeping body).

As far as we know there might not be any reason why they'd assume he's dead, but there might be other reasons why he can't be told by people online. When people awake from comas, they are often disoriented and have trouble settling back into basic tasks for awhile. It may be a worry that a sudden shock ("this world isn't real and you're sleeping on life support with VR equipment to project your consciousness here" might qualify) could give his real body a cardiac arrest, so even those who know act like layer 2 is the real world until it becomes important to tell him.

Yea, we need this to sorta flow together smoothly, have its trials and faults (nobody said relationships are easy), and possibly work after a fashion. I'm not really the greatest romance writer though, so I can imagine this being a team effort.

This post has been edited by bulmabriefs144: Aug 1 2012, 12:09 PM

[Sparrowsmith]

Maybe that's why Kevin goes in originally?
He wants to see if Johnny recognizes him, but Johnny doesn't. Then later Kevin is sure it is Johnny, so she goes in too, but he still doesn't know her either.
It's a brand new Johnny.
They get along well, but it's only like Johnny, so she doesn't think he could possibly wake up. In fact, he can't wake up.
The only reason he wakes up is because Matryoshka puts him in Johnny's body, or I believe that's what was discussed.
By all standards he could wake up naturally, but I'd prefer it if it was an outside intervention. It's our way of saying their might be more layers, but we're not going to visit them.

[bulmabriefs144]

Sounds good. He might have certain mannerisms or verbal tics that are similar, while being very much lacking the true spirit of Johnny (who he knew, what he stood for, whatever). So it's not enough like Johnny but it definitely reminds people of him.

[MEands]

Mowhawk Kevin is interesting, I had a different idea of him, but I actually like this a lot. In my head I had Guy from Tota in my head.

Also, the way you drew Eddy really reminds me of Dave.
Are we going to spell it Eddy? Eddie seems to fit more.

I'm not entirely sure about the Johnny about to be married idea, but it could work. Not sure how we could fit that in. I think I'm decent at writing romance.

Actually, how old are all these characters? Cause it kinda affects a lot.

[bulmabriefs144]

I'm sure I've recycled a few pics by accident.

No idea. Alot of characters in RPGs are sort of this ideal age between 14-24. Old enough to go on an adventure, not so old as to be tied down by work. I think Ambrosia in my game's thirty, but she's basically spent several extra years of her life on the street.

Since, it was never directly vetoed, I'm still going with the whole blindness idea for the girl in question. Why?
1. Because it allows us to play more heavily into shading and sound (especially footsteps), things overlooked by many rpgs in importance in favor of visuals.
2. It also allows there to be some blindness puzzles (she can "see" normally when a friend is leading the party otherwise a pinhole surrounding everything but a little around her, so there might be sneaking out of her room with people guarding the area or something).
3. Also, it helps establish a coma cause, blunt force vehicular trauma (plane crash, train crash, or car crash). Any of these would account both from her sudden blindness (which may or may not be temporary), and his coma.
4. I'm a pretty big fan of Ice Castles, so this idea just sorta hit me.
5. The final reason? Well, sudden color change in eyes is cool. Having not been able to see herself changing in hair growth and having to dress in simpler to put on clothes (before she could wear stockings, now they'd run if she put them on), it isn't just him that has changed but also her.

So, yea the whole thing is one big metaphor for whether or not two people can love each other again, now that time has passed and they've become different people (won't be easy).



Alethea? Left is before the accident, right awhile after.

This post has been edited by bulmabriefs144: Aug 2 2012, 10:09 AM

[MEands]

I'm not entirely on board with the blindness idea, I feel like we're overcomplicating all of this. It seems like we're trying to make everyone the main focus of this game, which is quite hard to do. But if everyone else likes this idea and builds apon it I'll go with it. I kinda like the blindness puzzles but it just seems weird that everyone has had some sort of incident. Unless the game company is also experimenting with different human health research things as well.

I do like the design of the characters.

I think the names of the Layer 3 characters should be less obscure, layer 3 is the modern world in a sense, layer 1 gets the more fantastic names and layer 2 has a bit of leniancy as well, but I think we should keep layer 3 to things like Kevin, Johnny, Rebecca, and such.

EDIT: Actually screw that, odd names are cool

This post has been edited by MEands: Aug 2 2012, 12:38 PM

[bulmabriefs144]

Remember, you guys said Layer 3 was basically a CrapsackWorld. A place like that is dangerous, with big machines that run too fast, and have a tendency to crush pedestrians in the regular course of a day (we may highlight this point by having a close call (or a disturbingly close hit) followed by indifference on the part of the driver). Accidents happen. Also, not everyone, just that they were on a date (or something) and in the same car, and got hit by like a truck or bus. Both of them would come out different.

I grew up with final fantasy series. I know alot of the games at the time were going with "let's have everything centered around a single hero", but alot of games at the time also had the whole "silent hero" going on. Centered around the hero + hero says nothing and has no discernible personality = alot of games were dumb (Dragon Quest sort of averted this later by making it somewhat clear through body language what the hero's personality was, despite saying nothing. It also had funny parts like the fact that the hero would give a silent shout). You either make your main character very distinctive and weird (like Cloud in FFVII, who is basically shown to have boasted about his entire backstory) or you make multiple lead characters (like some of the others in the series, such as FF3) and have a strong mix of story and character driven. Besides being comatose, Johnny still comes across much like most heroes, so we have to compensate by building our other characters and try to get him to keep up through interaction.

(It's Greek, it means "truth" not only is she seeking the truth about her bf/ex/whatever but if we do play up the whole blind thing you've got the whole "only blind ppl know the truth" cliche going on, used with blind prophets and such. Speaking above about Final Fantasy, and tvtropes...)

Also, what about out of context hints from layer 3 early (nothing to give away that it is layer 3 until we introduce, but well you've seen movies where something isn't important until later, but it's brought up in the beginning)?

This post has been edited by bulmabriefs144: Aug 2 2012, 07:25 PM

[Sparrowsmith]

The only problem I see with her being blind is that I fail to see her purpose in Layer 3.
What does she actually do in the lab? I doubt she could code or design anything if she's blind, or test the game, or examine the AI.

For a long time no one knows that Johnny is alive in Layer 2 (and even then it isn't technically Johnny) so there's really no reason for her to be moping around the lab unless she's part of the project. Not everything is about Johnny, most of the programmers are just doing their job.

[MEands]

So what the company has been doing is creating a very realistic life simulator, and recently they've begun hooking people up to the machine to see if they can live life in this new world. They've used people with disabilities so that the part of them that is unaware can become fully immersed in the world. Dang, layer 3 is starting to sound pretty unethical. Fake worlds, false reality. Adventure quest?

[Sparrowsmith]

they've only plugged Johnny in, haven't they?
And that was because his Father was desperate.

But yeah, they're not terribly ethical.

[MEands]

I thought Bulma was saying the blind girl was in the world too.

So I'm assuming the father is a little bit crazy, he cares more about his son than rational means.

[Sparrowsmith]

yeah she is, but she enters the game voluntarily.
If I'm following correctly anyway.

I'd say the Father is depressed more so than crazy, but I think we mean pretty much the same thing

[bulmabriefs144]

Ah crud, I knew it.

My net gave out right after I tried to post.

Yea, she enters the game voluntarily, believing she can save him. The dad believes this too, and allows her to stay even if she puts herself in danger, for this chance. The other programmers? Well, they are experimenting with simulating vision directly through the brain (sort of Star Trek glasses), and is testing it on live subjects using the game. Lucky for her they finally got it right, the other subjects' brains got fried.

And yes, MEands, that could be why Johnny heads to layer 2 the first thing he can.

As for her usefulness, well she is a fairly adept programmer even still (if you give her a braille keyboard). And she can at least make do with her other senses.

This post has been edited by bulmabriefs144: Aug 3 2012, 11:58 AM

[MEands]

One thing I want to make sure stays in the plot is the fact that Layer 2 Johnny doesn't know that he is Layer 3 Johnny. Only 2 of the layer 2 characters are aware that there even is a layer 3.
Perhaps there could be a little bit of a conflict between Layer 2 Kevin and Layer 2 blind girl. Kevin is still trying to make sure that this person is actually Johnny, and he wants to do it in a careful fashion, but the blind girl is trying to get Johnny to wake up through the use of emotion, so Kevin is always disproving of her. Perhaps Kevin might even be a higher job rank than her and has actually told her that if she tries to use emotion on Johnny that she would be removed from the project.
We could make a scene where she's like, "Johnny, there's something I have to tell you", normal players would think of it as her finally confessing her feelings, but really she was about to tell him about layer 3. Of course she gets interrupted before she can tell him anything.

[Sparrowsmith]

That would work. That would create some really interesting scenes the second time you play through the game.
So kevin is being cautious. He's realizes that Johnny layer 2 is very similar to Johnny layer 3, but not exactly the same.
Johnny layer 2 is also Kevin's friend, so he doesn't want to tell him about layer 3, only to find out it's not the real Johnny. If he did that, he would be ruining his friend's life.

Perhaps Johnny layer 3 was very impulsive, but Johnny layer 2 is more withdrawn (a possible result of the accident) and cautious. It's not very noticeable, but when it comes to very serious things, Johnny layer 3 would always push for an immediate resolution, while Johnny layer 2 is a lot more like Kevin in regards to being cautious.
So when Johnny wakes up in layer 2, he's conflicted over whether he thinks he should have been told earlier.

[bulmabriefs144]

One thing I want to make sure stays in the plot is the fact that Layer 2 Johnny doesn't know that he is Layer 3 Johnny. Only 2 of the layer 2 characters are aware that there even is a layer 3.
Perhaps there could be a little bit of a conflict between Layer 2 Kevin and Layer 2 blind girl. Kevin is still trying to make sure that this person is actually Johnny, and he wants to do it in a careful fashion, but the blind girl is trying to get Johnny to wake up through the use of emotion, so Kevin is always disproving of her. Perhaps Kevin might even be a higher job rank than her and has actually told her that if she tries to use emotion on Johnny that she would be removed from the project.
We could make a scene where she's like, "Johnny, there's something I have to tell you", normal players would think of it as her finally confessing her feelings, but really she was about to tell him about layer 3. Of course she gets interrupted before she can tell him anything.

Knowing any drama, she gets interrupted frequently, sometimes by events, sometimes by Kevin's meddling. At some point the audience can probably piece it together but the other characters still don't know. And yea, Johnny should definitely not be in the loop about layer 3 Johnny. Which of the characters should be the girl in layer 1 and 2? I was thinking either Maya or Rosette, but I can't narrow it down. Or should it be just some weird stranger that shows up after the first playthrough of layer 1?

[Sparrowsmith]

I think it should be an NPC, so a person that Johnny knows, but who isn't a party member.

She could be the one who explains the programmers to Johnny for the first time, once the program goes rogue.
I don't know whether Kevin would reveal himself at this point, or whether he would still keep himself being a programmer secret (perhaps he's worried what Johnny thinks).
anyway, I'd like for her to have kept her distance from Johnny (because of Kevin) until the events of the game. Once the program goes rogue, she has to talk to Johnny, and that causes them to grow closer.

So she's a character we see very little of in layer 2, but more once the REAL action starts happening.
She should be properly introduced as a main character just before the programmers explain everything, or at the same time.

[MEands]

Ooh I get it. I like that. So what it seems like right now is this is the kind of game you'll need to play twice to understand. What if we place the girl in random places in layer 2, sort of a thing in playthrough 2 when you're like, "Oh gosh, she's been watching Johnny". That might be a little weird, but it's just a thought.

So maybe she appears really shy when they run into her, but actually she's just intimidated by Kevin.

[Sparrowsmith]

Her being intimidated makes sense. Johnny considers her a friend (albeit one she rarely sees) but Kevin wants her to keep her distance until they're all sure.

Perhaps she'll be an extra in the background in a few scenes, and if you talk to her you get some pretty in depth dialogue.
If Kevin is in your party, then the dialogue is pretty short.
If Kevin is not in your party, then it's possible to have a rather long conversation (the player has the option to skip if they see fit) and possibly even recruit her into the party temporarily.