Group: Local Mod
Posts: 1,250
Type: Event Designer
RM Skill: Masterful
Rev Points: 90
QUOTE
Every main character has a sword, there's a strong guy, there's a 'witch' or a cleric...
How come characters' fates are set in stone, they're not allowed to become xfor what reasone? How come you can't have the main character become a cleric and such? Why!?
I didn't get any answer even though I said why a couple of times.
I'll take this opportunity to plug my game Princess Dream, which does exactly that, you get to choose your class and by proxy what weapon style you use, for all four characters. I do this and still avoid the trope that the characters have no personalities because they have no class. So not all games do that.
Also I agree with you, heroes using a sword is tried and true but also very very boring. Check my sig for info on the game, a demo should be out soon.
Group: Member
Posts: 34
Type: Event Designer
RM Skill: Advanced
1) Having no idea what I'm supposed to do to advance the plot. Do I need to speak to all 50 NPC's twice each and go into all 30 buildings and click on every object? Because that's gonna piss me off fast. Spell it out, or if you're forcing me to "figure it out," at least give me the clues I need to figure it out. It's better than being forced to randomly click everywhere. This is infuriating, which is the absolute worst thing you can do. 2) Lack of an apparent destination. Meaning I don't know what the conflict is, where it is, who it's with, etc.. The game maker just expects me to go through the actions of my character's life for 30-60 minutes until the conflict finally reveals itself. Sorry, but nobody is going to flush an hour of their time in the hopes that eventually the thing they're playing will turn into a video game. This is very boring. 3) Only RTP or otherwise overuse of RTP. At least in RM2K(3) where RTP sucks. I dunno if in other engines the RTP is considered attractive, but if you're using RTP in RM2K, then you're lazy and not making any effort. How am I supposed to trust that my time isn't being wasted and that this game is going to be fun if it already appears like the game maker made no effort? 4) Classic mapping inadequacies -- everything is lined-up in a row, overly geometric, every building is plain rectangle, lack of detail, etc.. That's a pretty clear sign that the game maker is an amateur. Also, it's very difficult to engage in a game that is visually awful. 5) Poor dialogue filled with spelling errors (I.e. A Gate Into Eternity). This is another sign of a bad game and a poor game maker that doesn't take long to spot. 6) DBS. Although it's possible to make an adequate game that uses the DBS, I assume any good programmer trying to make a great game would make an effort to make a CBS. Although this logic is lessened with the new RM's where you can just download a CBS instead of having to program it yourself. Also, the DBS is inherently limited in what you can do, so don't expect to experience anything new. This is another inadequacy that can be spotted very quickly. 7) Nothing original. I'm not talking about just plot. I mean there's no innovation anywhere. No mini games I haven't seen before, nothing in battle I haven't seen before, ordinary plot, ordinary soundtrack. When I make a game, I aim for almost every element being at least average, at least half of the elements being above average, and doing at least a few things that have never been done before. This is basically the same reason why no one liked The Hangover 2, it didn't do anything new. 8) The player feels nothing. If a game isn't dynamic, suspenseful, doesn't make you fear the "game over" screen, doesn't raise your pulse, etc., then it's boring. Find a way to challenge and stimulate the player. If a game is ultra easy and the strategies are mastered very quickly, it will get pointless fast. This problem is subtle and it takes a while to identify whether a game suffers from it, especially in RPG's.
Group: Revolutionary
Posts: 194
Type: Artist
RM Skill: Intermediate
1) "Sleeping" at some point of the plot does not recover your health.
2) You have no clue where to go next in maps that are very large due to a lack of explanation or hint, or "Where the heck do I go?" kinda game, just like AVGN said.
3) Gets stuck in a place you can't go on due to prgramming mistakes or glitches.
4) "Escape Dungeon" spells and items are locked and unusable in specific places even if there is no plot reason for it.
5) Some background props are not accessable even though they look accessable (and vise-versa)
QUOTE
How come characters' fates are set in stone, they're not allowed to become xfor what reasone? How come you can't have the main character become a cleric and such? Why!?
Ahem, Klein Kiesling from Atelier Iris wants to have a word with you.
Seriously, characters' roles and fates can be hardly called mistakes. They are what story writers intentionally design them to be. If you don't like them, fine, just don't call them mistakes. They are totally different things. Same goes with RTP materials. They are creators' choices of graphic and sound. They are not mistakes.
This post has been edited by manat31790: May 9 2012, 06:53 PM
1. Long opening cutscenes - When I download a bunch of RM games from the forum to play, I want to play them, not watch them. Most great RPGS (FF VII and Zelda: Link to the Past are good examples) do not have long opening cut scenes - the story and the world is revealed as the game progresses, a little bit at a time, to keep the player interested. If you tell me everything there is to know about your game's world in the first cutscene, I'll probably lose interest pretty quickly. Show - don't tell, as the old saying goes. If I'm not able to get to some action within a minute (that means combat and exploring, not walking around a town), I get bored and decide to play something else.
3. Head on battles - Just a personal pref, but I think the default battle setup is boring.
4. The default VX battle background - It looks like a toilet flushing...ew.
5. Non-stop loud headbanging metal music - I don't know when this became a trend, but I'm seeing/hearing it a lot lately. I start the game and the title theme makes my speakers crack, three drumkits and unitelligble growls play over the opening cutscene involving a medieval princess, and it goes on and on... I love metal, and it's totally ok to use in an RPG, but only if it adds to the tone of your game's world, and every game soundtrack needs a lot of variety, so please pace the music with the action.
Group: Member
Posts: 3
Type: None
RM Skill: Undisclosed
1. I hate random battles 2. Super powerful main villains kinda ruin the game 3. Side-fetch quests 4. Tingle...ugh 5. Pointless minigames that you have to beat to progress in the game
Maybe it is just me, but outside of "Hell", "Damn", and any slighted variation of the two, there should be NO OTHER SWEAR WORDS. If I play a game, and a character happens to suddenly drop the "F" bomb, I'm completely turned off.
2. Caps Lock -
I understand the need for emphasis in text, but I truly cannot stand capital letters. (At least in RPG MAKER games). No matter how serious the situation, once someone tosses in a coupl'a upper casers, (and a side-order of !'s x 50), I can't help but laugh.
3. Information Intros -
Nothing kills the mood faster than starting a game, then meeting a wall of text describing the features of the game. Personally, there is no need for you to have a humongous wall of 'how to's at the beginning of the game. I mean, the game itself is probably going to be an hour, if not more, long, and you're telling me that you couldn't find a way to creatively integrate this knowledge into the gameplay?
4. Cliched Character Roles -
The main character always has a sword, the female antagonist is a cleric.. There are so many cooler weapons out there besides swords. Not to mention that a female character does not have to cast curaga (or cast anything for that matter). Trust me, women like stabbing and shooting as much as the next guy.
5. War, wars, and more wars -
This is a love/hate relationship. I really do like the idea of war in games, and characters stopping a war, but games usually don't go indepth. It's more like:
Four characters are going to stop a war, but the only people you really see in the game are the four main characters and the main boss.
So, I like war stories when they are in depth, and take advantage of the war aspect and incorporate it effectively. But, that doesn't seem to get done nearly as often, (or as well) as I would like.
This post has been edited by m4uesviecr: May 13 2012, 11:48 AM
MAKE. BATTLES. INTERESTING. MAKE INTERESTING OVERWORLD PUZZLES. INTRODUCE UPGRADES/DIFFERENT LEVEL UP SYSTEMS. I like a good story, but jesus dogtits, I want to be ENTERTAINED while traversing to the next plot point. Giving me an extremely engrossing story but making me fall asleep during gameplay via an extremely dull battle won't click with me at all.
Shoot the shit and captivate me with something that grabs my attention, even if it's ridiculous. Not asking much.
Interesting characters/plot
Yeah, uh... emo main character with obnoxious rival has to kill lame dragon to save the world. Sorry, this has been done a gajillion times before. Go ahead and use these archetypes if you really must, but at least make things interesting. Introduce a goofy sense of humor. Show me some mystery. Suspense. Something. I don't want to play FF7 for the 1000th time with new palettes and different character names.
Little clue what to do next
I despise this. I don't want to spend 5 hours comprehending some vague hint on what to do next. I don't mind having to think (infact, I think it's essential to have a few puzzles in RPGs that make you use brain power here and there), but I don't want to burn any brain cells figuring out what I can possibly do next when all I had to do was just press this switch that happened to be either stupidly well-hidden or just in some area I was given no pointers towards. Keep in mind that not every game has to be Zelda, people.
Dull maps
I don't want huge maps to be a slideshow of the same two tiles. Mix things up a little. Story/gameplay/music are good to have, but it's not hard to design a decent-looking map. It takes 5-10 minutes at most if you just take your time. Battling on a gigantic sheet of coal/grass (not a combination of the two) is akin to battling on a blank MSN message window; it bottles up the feeling of intensity and makes me feel all "this would be better if there was more detail and not just one-two colors repeated".
RTP music
I can tolerate RTP graphics. I can even tolerate some RTP sound effects. But good lord above, I cannot STAND RTP music. I hate it. Hate it with a burning passion. You're given several music file types to manipulate for a REASON. Make some shit with FL Studio. Download a track off YouTube. The moment I hear Scene1... you've lost me. Better luck next time.
This post has been edited by zacheatscrackers: Jul 11 2012, 01:19 PM
Group: Member
Posts: 50
Type: Artist
RM Skill: Intermediate
Here's what I hate:
Useless Spells and Abilities: In most RPGs, even commercial ones, you learn a lot of useless spells and abilities. These same abilities, however, will be horrible when used on you - but totally pointless in reverse because most enemies (ESPECIALLY BOSSES) will have such high resistance to them. That's essentially all debuffing type abilities, such as poison/paralyze/doom, etc. In Final Fantasy XIII/XIII-2, however, they did it right. The saboteur role is filled with those typical abilities that fail big time in most games, but actually had a purpose here. What I like about them is they do damage, tend to land on monsters, and most importantly - make a significant difference in the fight.
Horrible Storyline/ Have no Idea what to do: With a fangame, I think it's really important to really put your best into the game. Think: If you are going to take the time to make it, it better be worth the time you put in and others time who play it. A good story should encompass the viewer, and is probably something you should try to write out before you even open up RPG Maker VX. Think about who the hero is, what he is trying to accomplish, and why. Think about all the aspects of the game: the lore of the world, what is the time setting, etc. If I open up a game and I get bombarded with tons of stuff that makes little sense and seems totally random and out of place, I will shut it down instantly and never touch it again (even if it had killer graphics, etc)
Features just to have them: Pretty self explanatory, but it seems like a lot of people just add a ton of features in the game just to have it. I think, just like the story, you should essentially plan most of this out before you even start the game. Having a good solid idea of what you want to do will be the best way to make your game entertaining and fun.
Anything RTP: Just... no. It's the biggest turnoff ever. When I see a game using RTP, I almost instantly will close the page. Certain aspects of RTP can be ok, but the biggest turn-off is the graphics and music of the RTP sets.
"Too Realistic" - Most of my thoughts here are just me. I typically do not like games that have the need to be too realistic. I mean, you're playing a game. If it ties into your story, it can be ok - but I'm normally not a fan. I like the Final Fantasy games for a reason. I heavily dislike blood/gore/cursing/ect - all of this seems to be better suited for real life and not in a game.
Large maps just for the sake of being large: Pretty obvious. Your maps typically should not be very big. Maybe the overall area can be quite large and detailed, but per screen: keep it small.
I probably have a lot more issues with games, but I just can't think of them all. I think above anything else, a good story and well thought-out plot lines are pivotal in a successful game. If you're going to spend time making one, then strive for your very best. Think commercial quality, even though that can take a lot of time and extra resources - your end result will be much better for everyone involved and will be something you can be proud of.
I have been playing a few RPG Maker games and have found:
1. Only showing information once People (or, me) tend to skip through messages really quickly if there are a lot of them. If you're then thrown into a massive world, and the message said "go and see x", if I've skipped the messages I don't have a clue where to go. Either the ability to go back and read the message again, or some kind of journal, is desirable.
2. Lack of save points after the introduction If you have a long cutscene to begin a game HAVE A SAVE POINT AFTER IT. I'm unlikely to go through said cutscene again if I've done it once, and if I die at the beginning of the game, as seems to happen a lot, then I've got to start over.
3. Unclear save locations A random house in the middle of a forest, which has 20 other houses in it, which has a book inside the bedroom upstairs with nothing pointing to it, is the only way to save? No thanks.
4. Dying too easily at the beginning I'm not going to get into a game well if I keep dying right at the start. You need to ease players in, the game getting more difficult as you get used to the controls.
5. A world map joined together by smaller field maps which don't line up If I have a world map, showing ARGEN in the bottom left and TUBANARI in the top right, I will expect, if I go through 100 field maps, that heading towards the top right will generally bring me out in the right place. People seem to just link maps together willy nilly and you can end up on average heading south-west to get to a north-east destination!
Group: Local Mod
Posts: 916
Type: Scripter
RM Skill: Skilled
Rev Points: 120
QUOTE (Amy Pond @ Aug 16 2012, 02:21 PM)
4. Dying too easily at the beginning I'm not going to get into a game well if I keep dying right at the start. You need to ease players in, the game getting more difficult as you get used to the controls.
I just hope you weren't referring to mine Anyway, I've a good list of things I hate:
1. Bad enemies' AI Let's imagine a group made up of two enemies, and let's imagine one of them has 1% HP and the other one 100% HP. The injured one uses Heal 2 and... heals the monster with 100% HP. This is kinda the worst experience I had in that field... and it really led me to leave the game unfinished;
2. Exaggerated random encounters' rate An enemy every two or three steps, when you're desperately looking for a heal point/save point. That's really annoying. Sometimes, this made me want to throw my PC on the floor and jump on it.
3. Two hours and half dungeons without save points Final Fantasy III - Tower of Syrcus -> Boss -> World of Darkness -> 4 Crystal Bosses -> Final Boss - without saving. I feel I need no other words. If you don't know it, just keep in mind that if you die, you have to restart from the Tower's beginning.
4. A too fast plot opening cutscene -> two maps -> first boss -> two maps -> second boss... Damn! Gimme at least a dungeon to explore... or insert some dialogue! Bosses every twenty minutes...
5. Cheap final bosses Okay, this is the end of the game. Okay, this is the final boss... but damn! You can't give'em an attack which kills instantly three between your four party members! This is absurd! To make matters worse, this is actually the kind of things I hate, since it looks like you won't be able to see the ending after 10+ hours gameplay...
Jens
This post has been edited by Jens of Zanicuud: Aug 19 2012, 02:09 AM
__________________________
"Thorns are the rose's sweetest essence..." -Jens of Zanicuud
Group: Local Mod
Posts: 1,250
Type: Event Designer
RM Skill: Masterful
Rev Points: 90
I realize this is a gripe thread to complain about things you dislike in rm games, but I'd like to comment on a few things I've noticed, maybe a list of five things that I dislike seeing as an amateur developer.
1. Far too much complaining about the RTP, this is a game developer for amateur designers, meaning a lot of us lack talent in one field or another, and most of us are too new to find people who want to help with our pet projects. The RTP is designed for developers like that. Don't assume the creator lacks skills making a good story or an interesting character because they use RTP. As they say, never judge a book by it's cover.
2. Jumping to Conclusions - Quitting and never touching a game again because it touched upon a nerve, or lacked something you like.I can understand if it's full of that or just downright offensive, but perhaps what you were offended by was important to the character or story, maybe it's designed to offend you and make you dislike a character, give it time before you judge something so harshly.
3. Quitting - I see a lot of 'I put the game down forever' type comments, which leads me to believe you don't bother commenting on the game session and letting the creator know what you thought was wrong. Remember that we are all amateurs here, no one works for a giant game company, we NEED this kind of feedback so that we can improve. We live off your opinions!
4. Judging as though these are commercial games - Don't get me wrong, if you compare my project to a commercial game, I couldn't be more flattered, but just take that game with a grain of salt. Remember we are working with a limited system as amateurs, we make mistakes and would love to improve upon those. I've gone back and looked at my first project and blanched, it was painful how many mistakes I made, and I would never have known that if not for the opinions of my play testers. If they had just gotten annoyed and shut it off, my game would still be a POS.
5. RTP - I post this twice because it's such an issue, RTP exists to be used. Yes, it would be lovely if we all had the talent to make our own music and graphics and scripts and everything, yet we don't. This is why it's here. Personally, I would rather have a game full of RTP then see graphics ripped from some commercial game, with the exception of a fan game obviously.
I guess the bottom line of what I'm saying is; while it's important to have a good game and to judge it, it's also important to take it with a grain of salt as we are still all newbies at this and working with a limited program. It's simple really, don't judge a game on just one aspect, take it as a whole and simply remember the limitations someone may be working under.
This post has been edited by shaddowval: Aug 19 2012, 09:27 AM
Group: Global Mod
Posts: 1,795
Type: None
RM Skill: Undisclosed
Rev Points: 15
I agree with the RTP to a point. If you're looking to make a commercial project, it's generally the cheapest you'll find (since you already paid for it), and there's very few resources available for commercial projects that don't cost a lot of money. However, there are a few available (First Seed Material, as well as cheap resource packs on RMWeb such as the Samuarai Pack and Lunarea's Modern Pack).
However, for non-commercial games, there are plenty to choose from. I've played plenty of games with the RTP and it all boils down to how well they are used, but that doesn't mean you should rely 100% on the RTP.
Little things like changing the default character names, sprites, faces, adding in sprites, maybe finding different music, all of these go a long way in making a game stand out.
But when I see a game with bland mapping skills using the sole tileset RTP, and the title screen is the default Town05 and image, and the first character I get is a guy named Ralph that looks like RTP Ralph... well, I wonder just how much the game designer is really putting into their game and whether or not he should have waited and practiced awhile longer.
Group: Local Mod
Posts: 1,250
Type: Event Designer
RM Skill: Masterful
Rev Points: 90
That is exactly my point. That's not the fault of someone using the RTP, that is someone who does not want to bother putting in any effort.
Using the default RTP doesn't mean you are lazy or uncreative, but HOW you use it can display that. I can also understand that when you see a game with RTP you assume it has no effort put into it and just look away, it's hard to break from such a habit after having seen so many bland games. I just think that a game should not be judged until it's been given a bit of play time, not even a lot just five or ten minutes.
Like the title says, what do find in game maker games that just ruin a game for you?
1. 5 house villages Okay, how in the world can a village sustain itself if there are at most (based on my own formula for constructing which is 3 people min. to a house) 15 people? I was a major offender to this ( actually the more I think about what I hate, the more I realize I've done these), not putting much thought into making these villages. Another problem with having only a few houses in a town is that you can't have too many people without making it very unbelievable. For me, a fantasy village shoul have around fifty people, a town should have between 75 to 100 people, and a city should have between (this may sound insane) 100 to 200 people.
This may sound shocking, but the average person doesn't talk to people much unless it's a Talk To Everyone puzzle. So, unless you have a bunch of different merchants, this is bad advice, as it slows the pace of the game.
2. Boring/ confusing starts When you start a game you can't just throw someone into it without a little bit of back story (unless your game is mostly a flashback up until halfway through). Having the player guessing what's going on is good, unless their still trying to guess twenty minutes into it, that's when you've gone overboard. The same applies to having the player do the same thing over and over again at the beginning till they reach a certain level and the begin the story. You have to give a little in both story and action to keep the player interested.
Big prologues themselves can get boring. Sometimes it's better to throw the character into the field and have things react as they exit town or go exploring.
3. Underpowered enemies/ overpowered heroes A big problem with making the enemies easy for the player to kill quickly is that it makes it seem unrealistic. If you're gonna make the fight a human enemy, you should atleast give the enemy the same amount or half that of your weakest character. This will make the battles more tactical than just pressing the strongest spell you've got once in order to kill them (unless they're a spider or some small creature, cause that does make sense then). The only exception to this rile is if that attack is a finisher attack, cause then you're good.
The reverse can actually be quite frustrating. Game balance is horribly subjective, and worse for the random aspects. The enemies can be slightly more powerful, but unless they're deep game bosses and you haven't been leveling (I think the whole "no grind" thing is a copout), enemies should not be dealing more than 1k-2k, and definitely not 1-hit-killing. A one hit kill means you have no defense strategy, and you'll die if out of restore potions, which you probably can't earn if most of the early enemies 1 hit kill. The enemy shouldn't fall in one hit, although spamming magic is okay. You just have to buy magic pots.
4. Unoriginal settings/ unoriginal characters I find that if I start some where that looks alot (alot... Hehehe) like that of a popular game that I've already seen, then that's just laziness. The same goes for characters in that if the the protagonist seems framiliar then it just seems like somebody is trying to get free ideas. The exception to this is if it is a fan game, then you're good. Originality keeps the game flavorful and draws the player into it more.
Every game is derivative in some way. Understanding this is the first step both to making a parody game, and improving on a game so that it isn't such a cliche. Originality isn't the issue. It's character development. Even if every rpg girl looks like Terra and ever guy looks like Cloud, the real key is uniqueness of their personality, and backstory writing.
5. Forgetfulness It is annoying when you get sent all over a flipping dungeon just to find a stupid that, guess what, you didn't even need in the first place. When the creator forgets that he put in a subquest and then scraps it later without removing what was in that subquest just gets annoying when the player finds it. Its even more frustrating when a player leaves the gameand the forgets what they were doing and can't figure out what they need to do.
This one is true, as I've been guilty of it a few times.
You've hears my rants, lets hear yours.
1. Poor character development. As I said before, despite all attempts to be "original" someone has done it before. You may even be unconsciously basing a character off one you've seen. So the way to improve this is to build their past. If not, all the characters end up walking stereotypes.
2. Artsy fartsy nonsense. Having a new custom battle design is fine. But if it doesn't work, it's toast. There should be some way of restoring lost skills, some way of resting and recovering life, etc. Even if it's not traditional. We don't care about your "concept", we care about it working of not. Awhile back someone was discussing bleeding/wounds as a battle system. Good, but you must have items to remove bleeding status. Same for gold (you can have a no monster drops thing, but they need to drop sellable items).
3. Lack of polish. Bad grammar/spelling, glitches, and even just the inability to eyecatch are all things that cause me to stop playing within an hour. On that matter, a good game has quests that can be done, and are written down in a journal.
4. Lack of strategy. Spamming spells in one thing, making spells elemental is another.
5. (Can't think of any) Oh yea. RTP snobs. Regardless of the sprites used, is it a good game?
This post has been edited by bulmabriefs144: Aug 27 2012, 08:07 AM
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May 6 2012, 04:53 PM
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