The First Layer, In-depth Options

[bulmabriefs144]

I imagine some sort of menu interface, where it's like:

Random number Is Greater than 25 of 30

"The other wizard is casting Fireball."

Else

"The other wizard is casting a spell."

If you know the spell, it's about planning an appropriate counterattack, which is still difficult. If you don't you've gotta guess and hope for dumb luck.I'm not sure we should dictate weaker/stronger mages. It should be about who is craftier.

The spell Counter should be a defensive spell, and cause this, if the character is a target. So normally, this only pops up, if you call it up, except for that one boss.

This post has been edited by bulmabriefs144: Oct 22 2012, 05:24 AM

[Sparrowsmith]

We could do checks.

The wizard with the highest speed (however we measure that) gets to choose whether to attack or defend.
Then whichever wizard is attacking selects a spell, the other wizard has a % chance of seeing which spell is being selected based on the other wizards intelligence and their own intelligence.
Then the two spells fire, and an event processes the attack to decide the result.
If the two spells have no reaction, then both parties take small damage (based on their magic attack and defense)
If the two spells react, then a new spell occurs (steam explosion, for example) which deals massive damage to the wizard attacking wizard UNLESS their magic attack is significantly larger than the attacking wizard.
If the two spells are the same, the defending wizard takes a large amount of damage, unless their magic attack is significantly larger than the other wizard.
If the defending wizard uses a defensive spell then they will take no or little damage so long as the defensive spell reacts with the attacking spell.

Complicated, but I can imagine it being interesting in action.

[Sparrowsmith]

Okay, we have our layer 1 plot outlined, we're designing the battle system, and the characters are ready.
Lets make maps.

I believe the starting town/village is at the bottom of a chasm, so I had something like this in mind:


It's a very rough image, basically you have your original settlement in the middle, and then they've cut into the stone over the years and spiraled out, carving additional stone buildings out of the rock as they went. The real thing would be a lot bigger than this, of course, and probably more square (because we're working with RM here and RM hates circular structures). There are also ladders at certain points for easy access up and down the structure. The middle would have to be a lot larger to accommodate crops and possibly animal farming. They would also need a source of water (a cave with a stream? A waterfall? Both?) or perhaps it rains almost all the time...

anyway, if we can add to this, or change parts of it, then we can work towards making some better concept designs, then we can work on mapping.

[bulmabriefs144]

I like it. We have an artist that can do complex parallax tiling? I can (sort of) do it, but I'm no artist (i'd have to use predrawn images, being more of a programmer).

[shinyjiggly]

Here's a slightly more colored in mock-up.
Instead of all the ladders being aligned, I placed them in areas that would be convenient for those in the hard-to-reach areas. Also, the tower features a bridge that leads to the upper level.

[Show/Hide] Yay for metaphorical layer imagery!

Notice that there's also wall scrawlings which range from epic stories to love notes to immature scribbles. Also, there's a couple openings that could potentially lead to caves and/or tunnels, some of which probably lead down to a water source.

And I'm kinda confused by the term "Complex parallax tiling". Is it just a multi-layered parallax background or am I misinterpreting?

[Sparrowsmith]

I think bulma is referring to passibility of tiles (as well as layers).

I like the new mockup, it's more like what I had in mind. Of course, the real thing will need to be much bigger (mostly for farming/housing reasons).
I imagine the middle would be mostly infrastructure and farming, with one or two houses, and then more housing, shops, etc built into the walls and on the higher levels. If there are streams in the caves there could also be fishing.
I like how this is shaping up. What else might we find here?

[bulmabriefs144]

Here's a slightly more colored in mock-up.
Instead of all the ladders being aligned, I placed them in areas that would be convenient for those in the hard-to-reach areas. Also, the tower features a bridge that leads to the upper level.

[Show/Hide] Yay for metaphorical layer imagery!

Notice that there's also wall scrawlings which range from epic stories to love notes to immature scribbles. Also, there's a couple openings that could potentially lead to caves and/or tunnels, some of which probably lead down to a water source.

And I'm kinda confused by the term "Complex parallax tiling". Is it just a multi-layered parallax background or am I misinterpreting?

I mean like this (Sunset over Indahl). As you climb, the perspective may change, and certain things (like bridges and overhangs) may have multiple layers, where you can be under or over the bridge.

Simple parallax tiling would be just walking on the tiles, complex tiling is the actual multiple layers (also mentioned in that dungeon library) and changing perspective.

This post has been edited by bulmabriefs144: Nov 7 2012, 07:29 PM

[MEands]

How deep is this trench? Because if it's super deep then the sun wouldn't reach it most parts of the day.

So seeing as this is an MMO, the tower in the center would probably be a reference point for various player activities, so it's probably going to be very full.

What is this town called again?

[Sparrowsmith]

Can't remember the name, but it took them at least a generation to dig their way out, so it's pretty deep, but I imagine it's large enough that light still gets in. Like, the hypotenuse of the edge of the inner inner to the top of the outer spiral is roughly equal to the radius of the inner most circle.
Of course, this is subject to artistic interpretation.

I'm okay with perspective changes, they shouldn't be too difficult depending on how they're done and what can be done with parallax mapping. I don't think we should overdo the map though, it is a one time thing.

[bulmabriefs144]

Well, we can re-use the layering code for the library. But yea.

[Sparrowsmith]

Will we need additional art work for perspective changes.
I mean, I guess it depends how great the change is... At the very least we would need art assets operating on different layers (which isn't hard to do I imagine).

[bulmabriefs144]

It's not so much additional art as sort of a partial perspective change. When you're at the bottom, the walls probably seem high, and should be stretched out (and you can't even see the sky). In the middle, everything is unstretched. Closer to the top, the top of the mountain seems flat, and the area looking below is stretched, and you can also see the area beyond the valley and the sky above.

[Sparrowsmith]

That makes sense.
So we could probably do this with only a few art assets, and then edit them depending on the perspective?

[MEands]

I think we only need one art piece, we just need to stretch it and squish it. (Not sure how to do this though)

So I think we should start working on the actual game, because we're losing interest FAST, and we've all put too much effort into this to leave now. I have faith in you guys!

But yeah, episode 1 of this game doesn't take that long, it starts at the town, and ends after the final battle, not too bad programming wise.

[bulmabriefs144]

If you really want pressure to finish, the world is supposed to end tomorrow. Get it done before then.

As for the picture, I'd suggest hand drawing a poster, then snapping shots from various angles. You don't have to stretch it so much as do perspective from the ground, from sitting, and from standing looking down/up.

This post has been edited by bulmabriefs144: Dec 20 2012, 05:30 AM

[Sparrowsmith]

If we're cracking on with the game then we really have to gather/create resources. Scripts and tilesets and the such.

[MEands]

Do we have a sprite artist?

[bulmabriefs144]

I'd assumed we were just converting the sprites that got made in the hero and character pages. I can churn more such sprites out fairly easily, and the only thing needing to be done with them is make them transparent and three frame instead of four.

Mainly then we just need a mapper, and a battle coder, and a script (as in the kind that writes story, not game script) writer.

[Sparrowsmith]

I wouldn't consider myself a tremendous writer, but I can certainly take a crack at writing, so long as I get some honest feedback to help me.
mapping won't be too difficult for layer 1, but later layers will be a lot more specific.

In the meantime, we can start drawing out progression. We know our heroes start in the center of the first town, which means they spiral out, have a short journey, then we have the siege on the dungeon/castle.

I'm thinking we start set on the majority of our heroes, they discuss the siege, and then the discussion turns to the missing member of the party. The team exits to the left, then the screen pans over (I'm thinking upper right) and we see our missing hero walking out of one of the shops. We go from there.

We'll need a few subtle hints that the heroes are in a game. Little things. Self awareness. This is where the dialogue gets tricky.
I'll leave the floor open for any other suggestions.

[kayden997]

Sorry for the noobish question, but what system is this on. Last I heard was 2003