The Black Rose, Now with a Complete Walkthrough. Options

[Fanatik007]

What font you were using in game?

[ZarroTsu]

Am I the only one finding this game INCREDIBLY hard to follow? Not even five minutes into the game and I not only have no idea what I'm doing, but no grounding reason to care, and I for some reason was teleported into the middle of a town? Who are these people? What am I doing? Hello??

[darkhalo]

Am I the only one finding this game INCREDIBLY hard to follow? Not even five minutes into the game and I not only have no idea what I'm doing, but no grounding reason to care, and I for some reason was teleported into the middle of a town? Who are these people? What am I doing? Hello??

Hello indeed...then I suggest you follow the story .
Finding Lianna maybe.... ??

[ZarroTsu]

the story

What story? I'm given, as an introduction, some monologuing without any hard meaning to it, a knock at the door, a floating leaf spirit or something who our protagonist doesn't bat an eye at or react to realistically who was supposedly something in a dream she had (Which would have made a much better introduction unless my game's broken!), saying something but not clarifying that there was someone the protagonist once liked or loved, then poofing away to neverneverland and leaving me, the player, with nothing to do.

If that's REALLY the intro, and my game ISN'T missing a scene before this point, then you've officially made an RPG I cannot possibly review.

[darkhalo]

the story

What story? I'm given, as an introduction, some monologuing without any hard meaning to it, a knock at the door, a floating leaf spirit or something who our protagonist doesn't bat an eye at or react to realistically who was supposedly something in a dream she had (Which would have made a much better introduction unless my game's broken!), saying something but not clarifying that there was someone the protagonist once liked or loved, then poofing away to neverneverland and leaving me, the player, with nothing to do.

If that's REALLY the intro, and my game ISN'T missing a scene before this point, then you've officially made an RPG I cannot possibly review.

Hmm. The intro was quite simple in terms of story objective. It typically unravels like most rpg's.
Re review.....yes, fair enough we all have our own opinions....per se.
This may not be SquareEnix, but it holds it's own as a single home brewed RM development project.

[ZarroTsu]

but it holds it's own for a single home brewed RM development project.

If that were true, you'd at least tell me where to go, in context of the game itself, to start off my journey. I replayed the intro to see what I missed, and I really didn't miss anything. Apparently some rose turning black will mind-screw the protagonist girl, but... why? What rose? Why does she know this? Jeez, it's sure be nice if I could SEE what this DREAM they keep TALKING about WAS so I KNEW what they were talking ABOUT!

See this is the thing: SHOW, don't TELL. This is not a good way to start an RPG, because you've effectively told me all about some dream your protagonist had by referencing the key facts as if I were there to see it, when I clearly wasn't. It would be like if I told you about this HILARIOUS time I had going to the grocery store to buy some milk, and long story short I sold my soul to the Devil. So what?

I expect you to at least introduce a concept in a way I can immediately understand, and can follow along with. It's true it will "unfold as it goes along", but in order for it to "go along", I need things to actually do, that I am told to do, and then shit hits the fan along the way.

If we want to use the example you gave of Square (Square Enix hasn't made a good RPG in YEARS), Chrono Trigger started off telling you outright to go to a fair, a fair that was there celebrating the turn of the new millennium, which is a pretty big deal, and an understandable big deal. You go there and goof around a bit, because that's what you DO at a fair, you run into some girl and travel around with here, and then you find someone who's supposedly your childhood friend who built a damn teleporter, and you decide to sit back and watch. Shit THEN hits the fan, and the plot gets going when HOLY SHIT GIANT VORTEX IN SPACE/TIME, BATMAN! You might not hold much attachment to the girl you just met, but you sure as heck aren't going to be an asshole for no reason since, the main character being a lens for you, the player, you yourself wouldn't just ignore the situation, and you follow after her to save her, and the plot kicks off from there.

Because it told you what to do. In the first five minutes, you're given a direction, and then you're given a goal. Things then get interesting as you're chopping up imps from five hundred years in the past, there's a war going on with demon lords, you're in shit with the law in present time for this bullshit, and then through another time-gate into the future you learn that a parasite the size of a city is going to expunge the entire planet one day and nobody can do anything to stop it.

Chrono Trigger sure as hell didn't start its gameplay by telling you "how cool that fair was the other day", and then expect you to know what point in the story you're in. That would be stupid, and nobody would like it.

[darkhalo]

but it holds it's own for a single home brewed RM development project.

If that were true, you'd at least tell me where to go, in context of the game itself, to start off my journey. I replayed the intro to see what I missed, and I really didn't miss anything. Apparently some rose turning black will mind-screw the protagonist girl, but... why? What rose? Why does she know this? Jeez, it's sure be nice if I could SEE what this DREAM they keep TALKING about WAS so I KNEW what they were talking ABOUT!

See this is the thing: SHOW, don't TELL. This is not a good way to start an RPG, because you've effectively told me all about some dream your protagonist had by referencing the key facts as if I were there to see it, when I clearly wasn't. It would be like if I told you about this HILARIOUS time I had going to the grocery store to buy some milk, and long story short I sold my soul to the Devil. So what?

I expect you to at least introduce a concept in a way I can immediately understand, and can follow along with. It's true it will "unfold as it goes along", but in order for it to "go along", I need things to actually do, that I am told to do, and then shit hits the fan along the way.

If we want to use the example you gave of Square (Square Enix hasn't made a good RPG in YEARS), Chrono Trigger started off telling you outright to go to a fair, a fair that was there celebrating the turn of the new millennium, which is a pretty big deal, and an understandable big deal. You go there and goof around a bit, because that's what you DO at a fair, you run into some girl and travel around with here, and then you find someone who's supposedly your childhood friend who built a damn teleporter, and you decide to sit back and watch. Shit THEN hits the fan, and the plot gets going when HOLY SHIT GIANT VORTEX IN SPACE/TIME, BATMAN! You might not hold much attachment to the girl you just met, but you sure as heck aren't going to be an asshole for no reason since, the main character being a lens for you, the player, you yourself wouldn't just ignore the situation, and you follow after her to save her, and the plot kicks off from there.

Because it told you what to do. In the first five minutes, you're given a direction, and then you're given a goal. Things then get interesting as you're chopping up imps from five hundred years in the past, there's a war going on with demon lords, you're in shit with the law in present time for this bullshit, and then through another time-gate into the future you learn that a parasite the size of a city is going to expunge the entire planet one day and nobody can do anything to stop it.

Chrono Trigger sure as hell didn't start its gameplay by telling you "how cool that fair was the other day", and then expect you to know what point in the story you're in. That would be stupid, and nobody would like it.

Chrono Trigger sure as hell didn't start its gameplay by telling you "how cool that fair was the other day", and then expect you to know what point in the story you're in. That would be stupid, and nobody would like it

Played both CT & CC, both good games....but remember, this IS after all original, and should be treated as such.
There is depth in plenty to this, a gentle start perhaps, but not unlike many an rpg out there. That's how it is.

[ZarroTsu]

Since you're only reading what you want to read, I'll say this.

There is such a thing as a "wrong" way to write a story.

This post has been edited by ZarroTsu: Oct 15 2012, 02:59 AM

[Philip]

@ZarroTsu
LOL! Careful there man easy on the offense.

@darkhalo
ZarroTsu is right to an extent. The beginning is VERY vague. Obviously you don't want to give away the story in the first 5 minutes BUT you should give your player a hint as to what to at least do with a bit of a reason at the beginning. I've found that the beginning of a game is probably the most difficult part to get right because pulling your plot together in an understandable way is very hard if the plot is a good one. Anyways this was just a bit of constructive criticism there.

This post has been edited by Philip: Oct 30 2012, 11:39 AM

[ZarroTsu]

the most difficult part to get right because pulling your plot together in an understandable way is very hard if the plot is a good one

Lufia 3.

But it isn't actually hard. Your game could have a deep, meaningful story shooting out its eye sockets if all you did was single-line conversations, so long as they told you where to actually go, or what to do. Dragon Warrior on the NES had the decency to tell you "The King's daughter was kidnapped by the Dragon Lord. He is evil. Go kill him.", and leave the player to figure out how.

You can just as easily start your game by saying "Kill the final boss", and nothing else. Kind of surprised there isn't a game that deliberately minimalistic yet.

[Shaddow]

If nothing else, I have to say that this conversation makes me want to give this game a go. Is it as bad as ZarroTsu seems to think it is, or is it just simple at the begining like Halo claims? I shall determine this! The fate of the world is in my hands!

(Btw someone should totally make a game or story off that statement just now, sounds like the most epic quest EVER......Ever.)

[darkhalo]

Thanks for the feedback RMer's.
Just a heads up to say that the game recently had a near enough excellent errata made for it for what seems to
share an incredible depth for both story layout and tech enhancements. Big thanks to madradubhcroga .
In line what Philip has said (and yes, Zarro I heard you !) the start to the game will have one cut scene which will
be initiated by Deliah herself that focusses both on Lianne's background/plight, and how they are both centre to
the plot. This is actually revealed soon within the story, but it will shed more light for the player to the key objective
at the start of the game.
Originally, it was find Lianne, and the plot unfolds quickly from the temple onwards to deeply emerge the player
into the story...no initial pressures at all infact, which is typical of my game style anyway.
Hopefully this will address the vague area during the game's opening play.
Like I said earlier, the first village was designed to literally roam freely, and find your companions before the
actual adventure begins...

[Tau]

I would love to try this out but the DLink doesn't work.

Edit - Nevermind it works, but wow Sendspace is annoying. Try uploading to Rpgmaker.net.

This post has been edited by Tau: Nov 20 2012, 10:48 PM

[MEands]

Finally got a working windows computer! I can't wait to try this!

[amerk]

Finally got a working windows computer! I can't wait to try this!

Nice, however please don't spam the thread with comments such as this, as it offers nothing to the topic. Game topics are meant for updates from the developer and feedback from everybody else.

[darkhalo]

Finally, yes finally the complete walkthrough for The Black Rose has now been posted up.
Download link is in the first post. .
Have had so much going on lately, but feel good now it's officially out. (phew).

[Clord]

Finally, yes finally the complete walkthrough for The Black Rose has now been posted up.
Download link is in the first post. .
Have had so much going on lately, but feel good now it's officially out. (phew).

I downloaded the walkthrough just to see how it looks like. Seems that you are one of those who put real effort to their walkthrough instead of making them sound "robotic." Makes me almost want to play this game again.

This post has been edited by Clord: Dec 13 2012, 01:33 PM

[darkhalo]

Finally, yes finally the complete walkthrough for The Black Rose has now been posted up.
Download link is in the first post. .
Have had so much going on lately, but feel good now it's officially out. (phew).

I downloaded the walkthrough just to see how it looks like. Seems that you are one of those who put real effort to their walkthrough instead of making them sound "robotic." Makes me almost want to play this game again.

Thanks Clord. . Yes, just enough balance & depth without too many spoilers hopefully.
Did note occasionally Iv'e referenced Lianne by her original name of "Lianna" in parts, Funny how names stick.

[EbilNeko]

wow.... the best graphics i seen... and the game seems really nice as far as i got. didn't play much though but it's just awesome. keep it up

[darkhalo]

wow.... the best graphics i seen... and the game seems really nice as far as i got. didn't play much though but it's just awesome. keep it up

Thanks EbilNeko for those positive comments .
As for the earlier games, I'll reupload them too....Sendspace is not the most free user friendly host I guess.
These can eventually go into the pinned section too once up.