Alchemy System, What do you think about this idea? Options

[3rr3]

Good Evening to every one.
I wanna to point out a little idea that was floating in my mind that is the Alchemist's Alchemy.
When you choose a skill, then you can choose another one and comboine them, to create a new powerful skill.
Every skill has a rank, that could be 1 , 2, 3, S, SS, SSS (or 3S).
You can use and combine only skill from 1 to 3, to create skill from 2 to 3S.
That does not means that a 3ranked skill + 3 ranked skill = powerfull and unnatural skill
Use logic: if you combine Firaga with Tsunami what do you think it could happens?
The created skill stay in you skill list untill the end of the battle and they can be used for all the battletime long:)

What do you think about it?

[Essenceblade]

The concept is interesting, but the skill choice would take a vast amount of programming, unless you're talking under 20 Skills for each Tier of skills.

I think Firaga > Tsunami would make something like Foggus or Smokecloud. Or because Water is often a sub-attribute for poison,

Poisoncloud or Toxic Mist.

Or even creates unique attacks on the enemies by aligning an attributes traits and joining them together to create a "ability chain", causing additional damage, and sometimes negative status effects.

So basically, each ability bears an element, and that element corresponds with a certain ability chain holder.

E.G, Mass-Immersion (Red being the fire attribute, and blue being the water attribute.) so when the two are combined within abilities linking, it creates an ability chain.

Fire naturally holds a fire attribute, and water naturally holds the water attribute. So linking the two in a "mix" would create the following;

So Fire III + Water III = Mass-Immersion.

This also applies to physical abilities if you choose to link them together. For example.

Impaction (Green being wind, and purple being lightning.)
You'll notice green is more to a ratio than purple. Which means using Wind type attacks will benefit more, meaning using Wind III instead of Lightning III to START the ability chain will serve better.

So Wind Thrust + Raiden Slash = Impaction.

That's not to say that abilities with multiple attributes also works.

Chilling-Submersion (Light blue being Ice, Red being Fire, and Brown being Earth.)

Frost Bite + Nova Pierce = Chilling-Submersion.

So really, alchemists get more out of just using spells and also physical abilities, they can create chains for damage off abilities. You could even create an ability for every non-alchemist to have their next ability used as part of an ability for an ability chain.

[3rr3]

I thought someting like the sum of the skills ids to choose what combined skill to perform
This Colour system is very... sensational really! I will keep it into my mind, by means of the appearence of my HUD You give me a great Idea
And yes, every skill should bring an attribute, or a null attribute
Programming is not a problem: it's just a great fun for me it's not the first time I had to write long codes
In you opinion the S ranked skill have to be combined or they just cannot be choosen?

This post has been edited by 3rr3: Feb 10 2012, 11:22 AM

[Essenceblade]

Honestly, you don't really need the colours. I was just using it as a detailed example.

Well yes, they should be able to be selected, but I assume it would result in a weaker ability chain in my case, as naturally the ability damage and affinity should be at a lower influence.

For example

Fire I > 30 Fire Affinity
Fire II > 50 Fire Affinity
Fire III > 60 Fire Affinity
Fire IV > 60 Affinity

The affinity are just the base damages that are only added when the result is an ability chain. For example

Fire Kick DMG 100; Fire Affinity: 20

Affinities affect the base damage of the resulting ability chain so when the ability chain is active, it creates base damage.

This also adds balance so the player simply doesn't just spam the highest level nukes they have.

Fire Kick DMG100; Fire Affinity: 20 + Water Punch; DMG 90; Water Affinity; 30
So it would be calculated as 100 + 90 Base Damage = 190 Base Damage.
And then 20 Fire Affinity + 30 Water Affinity which = 50 Affinity Damage.

Which results in Mass-Immersion having a 50 damage total. Of course this can also be adjusted by an enemies' elemental weaknesses or strengths, or even absorptions.

Of course I'm talking the damage ratio in terms of one just thought up. You need to balance out the Ability chain damage so that it isn't overpowering while something worth creating so your games algorithms.

[kayden997]

I believe the things that have those special attribute attacks should do little or no damage.
So basically, poison cloud should not do as much damage as Firaga + Tsunami together.

[3rr3]

Fire I > 30 Fire Affinity
Fire II > 50 Fire Affinity
Fire III > 60 Fire Affinity
Fire IV > 60 Affinity

The affinity are just the base damages that are only added when the result is an ability chain. For example

Fire Kick DMG 100; Fire Affinity: 20

Affinities affect the base damage of the resulting ability chain so when the ability chain is active, it creates base damage.

This also adds balance so the player simply doesn't just spam the highest level nukes they have.

Fire Kick DMG100; Fire Affinity: 20 + Water Punch; DMG 90; Water Affinity; 30
So it would be calculated as 100 + 90 Base Damage = 190 Base Damage.
And then 20 Fire Affinity + 30 Water Affinity which = 50 Affinity Damage.

Which results in Mass-Immersion having a 50 damage total. Of course this can also be adjusted by an enemies' elemental weaknesses or strengths, or even absorptions.

Of course I'm talking the damage ratio in terms of one just thought up. You need to balance out the Ability chain damage so that it isn't overpowering while something worth creating so your games algorithms.

Wait wait wait I missed something on the road Tell me if I'm wrong:
Combine skills in order to combine elements (or same elements) and unleash their power (it reminds me to Kirby The Crystal Shards 64, )
but I didn't understand what do you mean for affinity... You maybe mean the affinity for elemnts? For exaple, a skill that has affinity with Fire element, if combined with fire beacome very very powerful? Or something else ?

Affinity is something like Elements Affinity in the Junction of Final Fantasy VIII ?
Which means that a skill (for example with aff = 30) deals 30 % of damage of fire attribute?

[Essenceblade]

What I mean by affinity is its base elemental power. The affinity just stands for a +. It combines with another ability or spell, and if the two create a chain, their affinity damage is added up to create an Ability Chain for the total damage added up with affinities.

So a fire spell with 40 Fire affinity,
and a wind spell with 10 Wind affinity

That's 40 + 10

Would create a Fire-Storm Ability Chain for 50 Damage.

[3rr3]

Yeah! I've understood uhm... this is a nice idea
In a first time I thought something like this:

Fire + Fire = Fira (2)
Fire + Fira OR Fira + Fira = Firaga (3)
Firaga + Darkness (1) = Dark Flare (S)
Firaga + Light Burst (3) = Heaven's Flare (SS)
Heaven's Flare + Dark Flare = Smog (1)

[bulmabriefs144]

The concept is interesting, but the skill choice would take a vast amount of programming, unless you're talking under 20 Skills for each Tier of skills.

What might be okay, and result in pretty much zero variables, is an item based menu (similar to a party menu) when the item is made by combining the two or more items. You can even have this like the recipe for a spell. Simply have the items and combine, and you pretty much have learned the thing. You can also have skills that you don't intend to learn (like dummy skills, just to add 10 hp bonus) which get "learned" by an NPC party member. You could also have spell combos with these, but you'd have to set a conditional that you couldn't make spells again if you have the combo spell.

[3rr3]

But it would not be based on items, I'll use script to make it real
For Example:
Fire id 01
Thiinder id 08

New Skill ---> 01*1000 + 08 = 1008 ----> New Skill

(the same thing using a different order.)

This would be used only in battle

[bulmabriefs144]

Kinda reinventing the wheel. Whether based on items or not, the concept is really the same.





(Do not ask what kind of programming it took to override both a custom control system, and an overworld mini sprite that was on as long as you're at the world map, much less being able to use this anywhere)



It's basically this, whether you want spells or items though. The elemental synthesis is basically for combining spells. As you can see, I'm not done. But basically to combine spells, if party member has X spell and has Y spell "do you want to make Z spell, yes/no?" If so, you lose X and Y spell until you regain them. The only variable I have? For repeats.

This post has been edited by bulmabriefs144: Feb 11 2012, 10:46 PM

[Jens of Zanicuud]

Kinda reinventing the wheel. Whether based on items or not, the concept is really the same.

I can't agree with you. This guy's idea was combining spells in battle. If I understood the concept well, there would be a hero which can every turn select up to two spells and combine them together in order to cast a higher level spell.
The spell created lasts only for that battle and can be also combined with basic spells you have.

@3rr3
check this and tell me if I'm right:

>Hero combines Fire and Fire -> Fira;
>Fira is cast and then make it's appearance in skill window;
>Hero can now combine Fira with Fire (for example) and obtains Firaga;
>Firaga is cast and then make it's appearance in skill window;
>Battle ends, so Fira and Firaga disappear from skill window.

New Skill ---> 01*1000 + 08 = 1008 ----> New Skill

Well, this should require quite a lot of scripting... a hash containing spell codes like this:

SPELLS = {
1008 => 21,
1001 => 2,
...
}

and several modifications in Game_Actor, Scene_Battle, Skill_Window, etc...

It seems quite interesting, however. Good luck, 3rr3:)

Jens

This post has been edited by Jens of Zanicuud: Feb 12 2012, 07:41 AM

[bulmabriefs144]

That is a situation you'd need a script system (it's my opinion that scripts are vastly overused). Why? Because you can't have two of the same spell under normal circumstances. Only the first displays. That said, you might also be able to do this by tweaking the combo system, getting a switch turned on if Alchemy is used. From there you'd be able to add variables up to two, to track two options. However, if you're using RpgMaker 2k3, you'd run into another dead end (one I think is fixed in XP/VX though). 2k3 doesn't have a simple way to tell you which spell you used. It has if a spell is possessed, but not used.

[3rr3]

That is a situation you'd need a script system (it's my opinion that scripts are vastly overused). Why? Because you can't have two of the same spell under normal circumstances. Only the first displays. That said, you might also be able to do this by tweaking the combo system, getting a switch turned on if Alchemy is used. From there you'd be able to add variables up to two, to track two options. However, if you're using RpgMaker 2k3, you'd run into another dead end (one I think is fixed in XP/VX though). 2k3 doesn't have a simple way to tell you which spell you used. It has if a spell is possessed, but not used.

The solution you wrote for PRG Maker 2003 sounds good
Meanwhile I have just written the 60 % of the script
And, if I forgot to write it, I'm develop this system using XP

[3rr3]

Meanwhile I have just written the 60 % of the script

Little correction: I only have to set the skills and the script is done

[bulmabriefs144]

Could you show us?

Also, done with my own Alchemy system. Each time you make something, a variable adds one to Alchemy ingredients. These ingredients build up, allow Alchemy spells (once you've unlocked them) to be used, and partial-silence the caster (only stuff with Intelligence Mod 10, which is pretty much only Alchemy) if the character uses more ingredients than they have. Pretty much you need to gain more ingredients to unlock this silence.It's very complicated but I tested it, and it seems to work.

This post has been edited by bulmabriefs144: Feb 24 2012, 02:57 PM

[3rr3]

Could you show us?

Also, done with my own Alchemy system. Each time you make something, a variable adds one to Alchemy ingredients. These ingredients build up, allow Alchemy spells (once you've unlocked them) to be used, and partial-silence the caster (only stuff with Intelligence Mod 10, which is pretty much only Alchemy) if the character uses more ingredients than they have. Pretty much you need to gain more ingredients to unlock this silence.It's very complicated but I tested it, and it seems to work.

My Alchemy use only scripts: Hash to store the various combinations and Window that allow the user to choose what they want... Soon I'll post it in the game that I'm building

This post has been edited by 3rr3: Feb 25 2012, 12:14 PM

[rewells]

r33r: I've had this same idea for a while. Final Fantasy Crises Core had a skill fusion system but it sucks. Would you reveal to the player the effect of a fusion? Will they know the outcome in advance, or is it a guessing game? I prefer the former, but if you include penalties (for example: water + fire = lose both skills because they cancel each other out) to make the player think about the skills they mix, that could be interesting.

Could you show us?

Also, done with my own Alchemy system. Each time you make something, a variable adds one to Alchemy ingredients. These ingredients build up, allow Alchemy spells (once you've unlocked them) to be used, and partial-silence the caster (only stuff with Intelligence Mod 10, which is pretty much only Alchemy) if the character uses more ingredients than they have. Pretty much you need to gain more ingredients to unlock this silence.It's very complicated but I tested it, and it seems to work.

My Alchemy use only scripts: Hash to store the various combinations and Window that allow the user to choose what they want... Soon I'll post it in the game that I'm building

[rewells]

r33r: I've had this same idea for a while. Final Fantasy Crises Core had a skill fusion system but it sucks. Would you reveal to the player the effect of a fusion? Will they know the outcome in advance, or is it a guessing game? I prefer the former, but if you include penalties (for example: water + fire = lose both skills because they cancel each other out) to make the player think about the skills they mix, that could be interesting.

Could you show us?

Also, done with my own Alchemy system. Each time you make something, a variable adds one to Alchemy ingredients. These ingredients build up, allow Alchemy spells (once you've unlocked them) to be used, and partial-silence the caster (only stuff with Intelligence Mod 10, which is pretty much only Alchemy) if the character uses more ingredients than they have. Pretty much you need to gain more ingredients to unlock this silence.It's very complicated but I tested it, and it seems to work.

My Alchemy use only scripts: Hash to store the various combinations and Window that allow the user to choose what they want... Soon I'll post it in the game that I'm building

[3rr3]

r33r: I've had this same idea for a while. Final Fantasy Crises Core had a skill fusion system but it sucks. Would you reveal to the player the effect of a fusion? Will they know the outcome in advance, or is it a guessing game? I prefer the former, but if you include penalties (for example: water + fire = lose both skills because they cancel each other out) to make the player think about the skills they mix, that could be interesting.




there will be positive effects but either negative effects such as some skill I've yet created (that I forgot in this moment ) at the beginning you don't know what will be the result, but later yes