Character Development vs Story, A discussion on character development Options

[Adrien.]

Character development is a topic we all hate. Well some of us hate it. Character development is a topic I want to discuss. How do you develop your characters? Do you give them deep back stories that can reach into the story line and grab the player and make them seem like they can relate to that character? Or do you just create a character, give them some text and move on with your story and game? I have seen amazing games like those produced by Darkhalo and others that have amazing graphics and story but poorly designed characters.

Characters are the front row and center stage of what the game is about, how ever some people put other elements of the game front row and center stage and leave the characters behind.

What is your people opinions on character development? How are you developing your characters? Do you think story should come first or a good strong set of characters? Do you believe in the “four” where the “four” characters save the world and every one else is lifeless and only these four have a deep and compelling back story?

And discuss.

Note: if you know me and these types of posts you know I wont settle for one line posts that do not give anything to the discussion. If I see such posts that are not contributing I will report them. Please contribute to the conversation in more then one sentence. This is a serious conversation.

[Titanhex]

SRS BZNS!

Depends on the game you're making really. Pokemon game, yeah probably not gonna give much focus to the character.

Really the depth of the story should be on par with the characters. The deeper your story the deeper you need to make characters.

And lets not forget villains. They should be as deep as the characters as well.

Thus you have a very tricky formula. More story depth = more character depth = more villain depth. And we're not even talking about NPCs, which can be important in a very rich and fascinating world. So, it's no wonder that some people may focus on gameplay instead of story. After all, gameplay can drive sales harder than a good story. FF8 was hindered by the Junction System despite it's great story.

Me, personally, I prefer to create rich and engaging characters, not just as far as main characters go, but everything from villains to NPCs. I give everything a background, a routine, a reality structure and/or a purpose. This is what will drive realistic dialogue and actions.

NOTE: You know you place heavy opinion into your subject matter. It eschews the results of the argument. It's like you're just trying to reaffirm your beliefs, or you want to push your beliefs on others. It reminds me of an ultra-christian mindset really. It also invites argument into your topics instead of discussion. I suggest separating your opinion from the topic matter by saving your opinion til the end of the post.

[Klokinator]

I don't see how so many people "hate" character development. The problem is that usually people don't know how to develop their characters. Cutscenes? Blatant obvious love triangles? It takes a lot of time to think of creative ways to develop a character and considering everyone on this site is a hobbyist, some people just don't want to put that much work into their games and I don't blame them. More power to them if they do though ^-^

Note: if you know me and these types of posts you know I wont settle for one line posts that do not give anything to the discussion. If I see such posts that are not contributing I will report them. Please contribute to the conversation in more then one sentence. This is a serious conversation.

I notice you doing this a lot. Seriously, stop backseat modding. There are rules for a reason, it doesn't need to be restated in every thread you post. And they are many and a large quantity

I have seen amazing games like those produced by Darkhalo and others that have amazing graphics and story but poorly designed characters.

Also, it's poor etiquette to mention someone's project like that. Maybe to you the characters suck, but they probably put many many man hours into their project and if they were to see that it would hurt their feelings, and if other people see it, they might not play that game in the future.

Thinkb4upost

This post has been edited by Klokinator: Sep 13 2011, 01:00 AM

[Heroic_Spirit_G....]

How can you "hate" character development? You are making an RPG. That's like saying "I'm making a sports game even though I hate when people perform physical activity". At its core, RPGs are games that favor storyline above all else(in general I suppose), and the core of any storyline are the characters within it.

Unless you are one of thos mouthbreathers who only spend 10 minutes thinking up a story.

[vvalkingman]

I write stories around characters. Not the other way around. To me, character development is of the utmost importance. They are the avatars that the player is playing your game through. They need to have their own problems, dreams, goals, relationships, pasts, etc etc. You do this so that the player will not just see the character as an avatar but as a person or an old friend. You want to them walk away thinking about your characters. The story itself comes from their actions or responses to other actions. Do you get what I'm saying?

[Heroic_Spirit_G....]

I write stories around characters. Not the other way around. To me, character development is of the utmost importance. They are the avatars that the player is playing your game through. They need to have their own problems, dreams, goals, relationships, pasts, etc etc. You do this so that the player will not just see the character as an avatar but as a person or an old friend. You want to them walk away thinking about your characters. The story itself comes from their actions or responses to other actions. Do you get what I'm saying?

This. Heck, if anything, have full-fleshed characters makes stories MUCH easier to write. All you need is a general problem(or no problem at all), and the story pretty much writes itself when you think about how the different characters would respond to it. Compare that to writing characters to fit the story you already thought up, where the characters act more like static plot devices than actual people living in a world.

Fleshing out characters also gives you much more material for side quests. For my RPG, almost all the characters the player meets and joins with has thier own storylines and sidequests. An example of a big name game that does that is Mass Effect, where every party member has a fleshed out backstory, and that in turn allows you to take on special side missions.

[bulmabriefs144]

How can you "hate" character development? You are making an RPG. That's like saying "I'm making a sports game even though I hate when people perform physical activity". At its core, RPGs are games that favor storyline above all else(in general I suppose), and the core of any storyline are the characters within it.

Unless you are one of thos mouthbreathers who only spend 10 minutes thinking up a story.

Chu' got a problem with mouthbreathers?

My take on the topic is that character development > story. Story can tend to be cliche. But characters, even if you've seen the type before, add depth to the story that wouldn't otherwise be there. Especially if you give them sidequests, and special battle systems that suit their personality.

Good Example. The characters in this game are super-developed, the story is somewhat simple, but it's bolstered by third party political characters. You get the sense of what the governments are going through not because the story tells it to you, but because of the characters involved in the govt.

[computerzombies]

i'm mainly a writer so I have a pretty biased opinion, but I write excessively about characters that interest me (and hence usually end up in a game) because it is easy in a way. designing backstory for a large group of people is hard, especially when they have to merge at all the right places to seem realistic, but the characters seem to enjoy speaking for themselves most of the time (the shy ones are the exception )

[nohmaan]

I feel like it's pretty easy to develop characters as you write a draft of the storyline for your RPG, and then continue to add rewrites later on. It' allows you to add parts earlier on that have more depth of meaning towards the end of the story (players find out what appeared to be isolated incidences are related, etc.) I think that the more you rewrite the more you're able to see things about your own characters you might have overlooked earlier.

Another thing I do (I am an improv performer and have many actor friends), the nerdy actors I know I will invite into a chat and give them all one of the characters to play in a situation from the game. It gave me a good idea of how the characters would interact with each other from a perspective other than my own. And they way they played the characters was much different than the way I had in mind, but pleasantly so.

I would pose a side question though-- how does one handle character development in a storyline with a player made character? Something like Dragon Quest 8

[Titanhex]

how does one handle character development in a storyline with a player made character? Something like Dragon Quest 8

That's always a good question. Honestly you must either force a personality on them despite their customizable appearance, create one through multiple choice dialogue, or if they're expendable, give them generic dialogue to blurt out.

It seems the Silent Protaganist is the easiest way to manage a main character who is player made.

From there, it's up to you as a story-teller.

[amerk]

That is a tough one. While I really enjoy a good story, I believe that there needs to be a stronger focus on the characters than trying to find ways to create the next "plot twist". To be honest, a good story doesn't have to be epic, it just has to be written well. Exciting characters are what will help drive the plot.

I agree with Klok in that I don't believe it's a matter of "hate", per se, but rather trying to understand and develop the characters. And it shouldn't just be focused on the primary 4-person party, but extend to all the major NPC's, and even a few of the minor ones as well. Note that when I say minor NPC's, I generally mean having an initial conversation that will help to develop your main characters better, especially if the main party member is speaking to an NPC from his hometown.

For example, if Walter just joins the party, and he's a goofball, at heart, and he talks to his best friend Joey before leaving town I think a conversation like:

Joey: "Walter, my man, you are one lucky dog."
Walter: "What do you mean?"
Joey: "You're living the dream! Slaying monsters, finding money, hooking up with the ladies. Ain't got a care in the world."
Walter (with a mischevious grin): "Well, it ain't all just play, you know? I mean, it takes lots of practice to look as good as I do."

This would sound better than:

Joey: "It's good weather today." or "Have fun on your adventure."

And while we've developed Walter through this converse, we've also given a bit of development to Joey as well, a friend that hangs around Walter for no real reason other than maybe trying to copy Walter's style, and even a slight hint of jealousy as well.

That's only the start of character development. We've established that Walter is a bit cocky, and that he thinks highly of himself, and we'll have to maintain that throughout the course of the story, but maybe once in awhile (perhaps when it comes to his sister) there is also a hint of something more responsible that may or may not need to be developed.

When you think of writing a story or novel, most authors consider the kind of person the character is before putting him on paper. It doesn't mean they have to explain every ounce of detail and personality that person has ever had, but it allows the author to write the story in a way that would fit the character's style, saying things and doing things that the character would normally do based on the author's background research.

This post has been edited by amerk: Sep 16 2011, 06:47 AM

[elliott20]

step 1:
figure out over arching "theme" to story, which usually shapes the adversity
step 2:
once adversity is set, you usually know what the villain and heroes needs to be overcoming
step 3:
pick a character archetype
step 4:
give said archetype a single twist.
step 5:
add one extra archetype and mix for flavor

[Crystalgate]

I will first note that I find characterization more important than character development. Every important character need characterization, but not every character needs much development. It's OK for some characters to more or less stay the same.

Anyway, I try to make both the main story and the characters good. Usually they will both alter each other. Sometimes I have an idea for a character I want to implement and need to make a space for it in the story. This can lead to me adding elements to the story I originally didn't consider. Other times it works the opposite, I add an element to a character because it fits the story. The trick is to allow characters and plot to be fleshed out by each other, but not allowing core elements to be changed on a whim. That is, even if I let the story alter a character's back-story a bit, it should still feel like the same character as before.