Game Characters Options

[bulmabriefs144]

Which is why I set more on the idea of an identity crisis rather than a shapeshifter. A shapeshifter is deliberately trying to deceive people, but if he's switching forms due to an ID crisis, he might not be sure what he is anymore. What are these extra forms? Maybe it's extra code. In secret of mana for instance, there were some characters that had entire playable frames (someone hacked the savestates and found these) that just weren't being used. I found out about it on this site. As he (she? it?) loses grasp, there's a gradual breakdown in form too. The fact that the rogue program isn't really against the party might lead to a situation where the party doesn't want to fight him and vice versa, but he has to be defeated so the world as they know it will continue to function properly.

This post has been edited by bulmabriefs144: Aug 13 2012, 02:54 PM

[Sparrowsmith]

That's pretty much the plan there. I think he'll want to look the same as he used to at all times, though maybe he sometimes changes how he looks without realising it.

[bulmabriefs144]

That's pretty much the plan there. I think he'll want to look the same as he used to at all times, though maybe he sometimes changes how he looks without realising it.

Yea. That is, when he remembers who he is at all. The first one you guys said was too old (and other things), what about the younger black haired guy?

[Sparrowsmith]

I imagined him having shorter hair, possibly a jacket (maybe denim) but I think he looks alright.
An existential crisis, yeah, but identity seems like a step in the wrong direction. He's not doubting who he is, he's doubting what has made him who he is.

Hmmm, what does everyone else think?

[bulmabriefs144]

(Why would he not doubt who he is? If you aren't sure whether you exist, you don't normally just wink out of being. Usually, you can't, even in a fantasy universe. The first thing you ask instead is "who am I?" (and "why am I here?") To which of course people supply different answers, "You're the guy I used to know from school/church/theatre/whatever", "you killed my dog, you monster", "you lazy bum", etc. In a universe with layers, if the character finds out it's anything like the thing the characters are playing the question becomes "am I an avatar?" Hence, the instability of form)

Other opinions?

[Sparrowsmith]

We can approach this from the five stages of grief, perhaps?

Denial. He refuses to believe he is a program and accidentally destroys the town.
Anger. He starts tearing apart the code of the game, eventually escaping into layer 3.
Bargaining. He begs the programmers to let him live.
Depression. He STILL doesn't think the world he is in is real. He breaks down and becomes even more insane (by this point he has the robotic body.)
Acceptance. His final words should wrap up the whole ordeal.


Now, I can see him doubting who he is, but I don't see why this would cause him to change what he looks like. Yes he doubts his existence (or more the existence of everything else) but why would he look like someone else? He knows what he looks like.
Unless he starts thinking he is a younger version of himself.
I guess he could occasionally flash between different graphics to show the corruption in his code, but if he looks different too often it will just be confusing to the player.

[bulmabriefs144]

Without getting into past-life metaphors, it's easier to say leftover code. The decision to make this guy a junk shop owner was a programming code, but there were about two other stories possible on layer 2 (a wealthy daughter related to one of the characters, and a mysterious out-of-town visitor). But this codes just weren't used. The coders were lazy, and never finished the events. The code was even still there, they just changed the variables.

So, here you have someone arbitrarily named a "junk shop owner" and upon discovering that they're part of code, also find out they aren't even a permanent person, being interchangeable with about two or three other people. Needless to say, beyond just existential angst, they're malfunctioning in other ways. Sure, we should have heavy doses of being/nonbeing issues. But the average viewer is likely to get a more obvious representation that the character is breaking down when they suddenly become random characters. "Am I really a junk shop owner? Or am I [event 2 code]? Or am I [event 3 code]?" That sorta thing.

I'm not really following the robot thing (the closest he'd be able to do is hack a robot, not become one). Also, unless we plan on having a layer 4, the rogue program probably can't enter layer 3. They probably have other means of contacting it, like shutting down layer 2, or a big HELP ME on a computer screen. The whole point of the whole form-changing is that the code assigning what this character looks like is actually breaking down due to a logic error, hence the final form is just a garbled mess of pixels.

Alternate corrupted form.

Various forms

Let's nix number 1, and have the 2nd to the last as a layer 1 form or some other glitch (the whole tail thing doesn't really fly on on layer 2). I wouldn't mind scrambling the remaining three with the above mix.

This post has been edited by bulmabriefs144: Aug 21 2012, 09:26 AM

[MEands]

I have to be honest, I don't really like the idea of the rogue program being multiple characters, it's a cool concept, I just feel like it makes the RP itself a lot less relatable. I don't know if it's just my preference, but I feel like we're adding in a lot of characters, more than we need. If you do proper character development you can make it very far without introducing anyone new.

And I'm not 100% for the robot, but I do think that the program should enter layer 3. Not physically, but his essence is able to look into layer 3 through layer 2 and is able to function on the outside world. The robot is sort of a sub layer used to hold entities.

Also, there is a layer 4, it's us, isn't that the original implication of this game?

[I'm not gonna be on as frequently due to school beginning]

Also, do you think we should get started on this first dungeon? It seems that we aren't being very productive at the moment. Who wants to take the job of designing the puzzle? If nobody else wants to I'll take the job, it might just take a while.

[Sparrowsmith]

I don't really like the idea of multiple characters for the rogue program. I have an idea for how the programmers made their world.
Basically they have a programming language that runs on variation, one they possibly developed themselves. They make a draft of whatever they're making (a door, an AI, etc) that functions, but isn't quite real. Then they program renders hundreds (possibly thousands) of variations, and the programmers select the more realistic ones, and define irregularities that should never be used. The program itself eventually learns what features a door or person or television should have, and what properties they shouldn't have. Eventually it can render randomly and always give a perfect sense of reality. A door that FEELS and creaks and breaks like a real door. A person that talks, and acts, and can even bleed like a real person.
Lets remember, layer 2 is a complete virtual reality. I don't think anyone could ever just code a perfect reality, which is why the programmers actually don't do that much, they just tell the program if what it has rendered is real-feeling or not, and then it tires again, or improves on the design.
This isn't complete BS either, lots of AI companies use this kind of natural selection to design AI that can walk. Well, I saw one do it once.

However, the game recognizes Johnny as a tester, so he unconsciously makes the world (and the people he hangs around with) more realistic.
So the Junkyard owner is so real because Johnny sees him quite often.

Anyway, this would mean the programmers didn't actually code the personalities of any of the characters, they just talked to the people the program rendered and checked to see if they seemed real. So the Junkyard Owner really is a junkyard owner. Not just some variable.
Also, I feel like the programmers should be able to speed things up or slow things down in layer 1. So the junkyard owner (and all the characters) have had entire lives, even though it's only be a decade or two for the programmers.
It is just a program after all. If you're in the program, you don't notice if time is running faster or slower (no frame of reference) but it isn't exactly the same as layer 3.


As for the robot, I was never too sure either. Originally he just escaped into the security systems, took control of doors and sentry guns and started trying to kill the programmers. However, the plot benefits if he has a body to try and escape with, and it would be possible for him to download himself into a robot, if one existed.
The robot isn't a terminator or something, it's actually a very brittle thing, much like robots we have nowadays.
I mean... we have robots today, and we're talking about super advanced AI, it's not too big a leap of the imagination for the rogue program to end up in a robot.

If we don't do the robot though, we need a new plot resolution.

[bulmabriefs144]

Well, if not multiple characters, I still think we can use the junk shop char (#2) and the completely pixelated one (#6). The #1 and #3-5 sprites can be used as extras, either as NPCs in layer 1, or perhaps random people in crowds. So yea, before the glitch he's a junkyard owner (and no other characters but), and after the glitch a bunch of scrambled pixels or floating numbers (or something).



(Same image, I just exploded it)

And I'm not 100% for the robot, but I do think that the program should enter layer 3. Not physically, but his essence is able to look into layer 3 through layer 2 and is able to function on the outside world. The robot is sort of a sub layer used to hold entities.

Yeah, the whole essence thing, possibly even taking over machines. This may or may not include an actual robot, but that's fine if we remember that the rogue program doesn't have a physical presence just a computer one (and all that entails, including hijacking machines). Let's make it a medical robot (with attachable arms that can be knocked off in battle) since it would make sense if one person is in a coma, and the other is blind. I can imagine grapple style arms but not guns.

I think we should do some PrintScreen shots of actual script or code we make to add a sense of realism to this.

Also, do you think we should get started on this first dungeon? It seems that we aren't being very productive at the moment. Who wants to take the job of designing the puzzle? If nobody else wants to I'll take the job, it might just take a while.

You're welcome to try. We've told the plan out, I can't do it right now as I've still got like three puzzle maps left on my own game.

[MEands]

My idea for the robot was that it was the original vessel for Johnny but it couldn't hold actual human thought, but it can take program commands.

I'm still not sure about the design of the junkyard owner yet.

[bulmabriefs144]

(We probably need more input on the Hero Design section, it kinda slowed down)

I thought the scattered pixels might help show the whole raw code thing. Remember once he becomes a rogue program, that would make him a program, not a person.

Doesn't Johnny has his own body? Or did it get completely wrecked in the accident?

[Sparrowsmith]

His body is fine (he walks around later) but he's comatose.
Being in a coma doesn't stop brain activity though, so when they plugged him into the game some of his consciousness went in. Not much, he wasn't in the game, but part of his mind went there. The structure and interactivity of the world helped this part of his mind develop until it made an avatar for itself (layer 2 Johnny) who is a program, but also part of Johnny from layer 3.
When they all escape layer 2 and go into the security systems of layer 3, Johnny's mind is pulled back to his body. This could be because of Matryoshka, or just a glitch.

So what's the problem with the robot? Its existence or its relevance to the plot?

[bulmabriefs144]

I'm okay with a robot.

The actual problem is its purpose, and how replacement vessel doesn't seem to work for me. Okay, there's types of robots. Take your pick:

1. Guard Robot - The programming company is a big corporation, and odds are they've made enemies. Also, this is the sorta thing a senile old lady and some brilliant but crazy programmers might build.
2. Medical Robot- Probably with attachable arms, anything from grappling hands to bone saws. A boy in a coma, and a blind girl? A bunch of people who know more about programming than medicine? Definite possibility.
3. Exploration Robot- This one, not so much. Unless it's used as guide for the poor blind girl, since everyone else is programming, I don't see this as needed.
4. Repair Robot- Something that can squeeze in small areas and do spot welding, net cable replacement, etc.
5. Coding Robot- Basically a mobile calculating computer. The programmers that aren't totally confident in their code could bounce codes off it, and have it solve for equations.

(There's also machine arms, general purpose droids, and code bots but let's not count these)

Replacement body probably doesn't work if he's got one, since it's his mind that's somewhere else. Mainly stuck in a coma. A VR machine, mebbe, a robot on the other hand should have another purpose here.

This post has been edited by bulmabriefs144: Aug 23 2012, 04:38 AM

[Sparrowsmith]

I was under the impression the company are mostly an Research & Development company. The robot is an old prototype that got outsourced. It's a blueprint for other robots to be built off. Basically they built a functioning robot, and then other companies do what they want with it (make it medical, or a guard robot).

For example Asimo the world's (allegedly) most advanced robotic humanoid, is still just able to run (and even then it's really just a brisk walk). Making a robot that is humanoid is phenomenally difficult, it would be impressive (and financially viable) to build a working one that can then be worked upon, even if on its own it is not for mass production.
It could also be a servant of sorts. It brings the programmers items that they ask for, makes coffee, relays messages.
There could be several identical ones within the building, all performing tasks and sending things to each other via dumbwaiters (like tiny elevators).
The robots aren't necessary, but while helping around the building their AI develops, which is another thing the programmers are working on.

If none of that works, it could be a guard robot.
Asimo

[bulmabriefs144]

Well, that would be better. Of course, it'd be a major freak-out session when the machine assigned to bring coffee started bringing poison or explosives instead.

(Please, please help with the hero section, I'm not at all sure what the two layer 2 girls should be like. We had them with a general character sketch but I think backgrounds were a bit shaky)

[MEands]

Ooh I had an idea for Layer 3! So layer 3 is entirely logic based. Anyone played the game Limbo? Think of puzzles of that sort. So when the rogue program enters layer 3 the programmers have decided to decimate it, so it freaks out and tries to escape. You have to chase it through the building and find where it's hiding. (This will be obvious, as you'll enter a hallway and one of the turrets starts firing at you for no reason. Idk why turrets but i like those). Anyway, you go through the facility and shut off all the power until the program has no more room to live. Until it finds an individual source of power, the robot. Then the game gets scary, as you have to fight a robot in a dark room that you just shut all the power off of.
What do you think?

Actually, I was kinda into the idea of the blind girl having a robot to guide her and then it gets taken over. That might be kinda cool.

[bulmabriefs144]

And for her, without a guide, all rooms become kinda dark. The weird part is in the dark room, because of sounds and such, and her memory of the area, she can "see" better than the rest of the part without her in it. (Sorta a teamwork message)

This post has been edited by bulmabriefs144: Aug 24 2012, 12:11 PM

[MEands]

Maybe we could actually have the screen be completely dark, and actually do a sound based puzzle. This would be extremely innovative, plus it would just be fun for the user.
It would also be another cool reason to have Layer 3 have voice acting. Do you think that would throw it off? Or would it make layer 3 seem more realistic?

[bulmabriefs144]

Let's use mp3 then rather than wav then (I can give the non-repeating code, so it one-time plays).

Also, this site: http://www.starnow.com/

If you can put together a script (it'll be AWHILE), and have a general description of what the characters are like, all you need to do is list the game and give characters and what you need. I did this for Oracle of Tao, and after about 3-4 months, I got all the character's lines done. I swear by this, since it got me two of the best voice actresses ever (one of which did a MALE part). For best results, set all male parts to either gender, but not the other way around.