Relationship help, sigh Options

[Spirit_Master_X]

So me and my girlfriend has been together for about four months now, but I have an issue. She may or may not have a crush on one of my closest friends. About two months back she told me she had a crush on him before that was only temporary. But ever since out of everyone in our group of friends she talks to him the most. She mainly goes to him for advice and to vent about me. She seems to really enjoy his company. He tells her everything that is right when she vents to him. She texts him, calls him on occasion, msgs him on facebook, she even mentions her boobs to him at one point...and she didnt even tell me, i found out for myself. But the both of them swears up and down that there is nothing between them. She told me constantly that she sees him as a sister...but I don't know. Me and him been friends since elementary school, and she only gotten to know him last year. I don't know how they developed such a strong friendship out of nowhere but it worries me. I accused her plenty of times about having a crush on him and it made her cry at times and made her sad. I don't want to keep bringing up the subject, because that will eventually push her away to him. I just don't know what to do. Recently, I vowed to never let that insecurity get the best of me until she playfully pulled his hair and that kinda sparked my insecurity back up again. I know insecurity is bad in a relationship...but can you blame me??? She even msged him several times back to back to back to back on Xbox Live without using a keyboard. She literally typed in everything...who has that much patience??? I don't know...

There were times when I felt like the third wheel and I would lean against a wall and watch the two of them talk and saw that they had great chemistry. She says she loves me and would never do anything to hurt me...but I'm just scared. Couples tell each other that all the time, and you will never expect the cutest couple in the world to cheat on one another, or just openly admits they have a crush on someone else.
It's almost like...he is the second in line. Also at one moment my friend met another girl and my girlfriend seemed a tad bit jealous because she wanted to so badly see them together and wanted them to be happy and just be involved in their relationship. I'm just so tired of feeling like this so I need STRONG advice and some real truth here. Am I wrong? or is she? are we both wrong? Should I just eliminate myself from this relationship so she can be free with talking to him more??? I don't know.

This post has been edited by Spirit_Master_X: Nov 12 2012, 11:06 PM

[Shaddow]

Best advice I can give, is to not push yourself out. That will only guarantee that she will not be with you. Be there, be with her and be a good friend to your friend. If she does end up liking him more and wants to be with him, that will hurt, but it is the way things will be. You getting jealous and insecure will not make things better.

At the same time, if you feel like you are losing her, maybe you are not giving her what it is she needs, find out, ask her, or ask a friend, or do what you need to do, to see if she feels like she is missing out. If you can provide that, then maybe she wont' need him.

All I can really say is, don't give up, but if they do end up together, don't hate them either, it is not like they would do it to hurt you.

[X-M-O]

Shaddowval has a great perspective, and some good advice. ^^

From my perspective, as a girl, I see your girlfriend as being a real friend to this other guy, and most probably not in a romantic way. I say this because I know that I always feel more secure and flirty around friends that I feel no romantic attachment for. And yes, almost every girl I know will flirt a little just to see what response we get out of you (as a guy, to see if you care). However, we do this naturally and do not mean anything by it, so if you accuse us of becoming "too friendly" with another guy, of course it would make us cry. =\
We want you to be proud of us, and we want you to be our man. If we flirt with someone else don't sit on the sidelines, confront us in n indirect way by pulling us aside and flirting with us.
We naturally feel less secure around the one we have real feelings for, and obviously you do as well, but as a girl we will generally not take the lead in the relationship (depending on our personality and life experience) and so you will have to overcome your insecurity and also overcome your jealousy (despite the fact that we will likely make you jealous very often). It isn't 100% on purpose, as it is a natural thing to do that we really don't give much thought to, but your reaction to that affects us greatly. You have to make that insecurity go away by making us feel comfortable and secure around you (in public and in private) so making any form of accusation, true or not, should be saved for the times when it is really important. I know that as a girl I will take a guy in every argument without thinking, it's my nature to do that, however guys generally are very good at "choosing battles" and only fighting those that really matter (to both partners in a relationship).
So, basically what I'm saying is, don't read too much into the flirting with the friend and don't lash out based on that jealousy/insecurity as it would definitely turn me away. If your girlfriend does love you, then she will forgive you for most of the things you say, but she will never forget it - so it's best not to create scenarios that you wouldn't want her remembering. =]

One last note: don't be so clingy to her. This situation sounds to me as if you are being too clingy. There is a line where "close" becomes "overbearing". Don't cross that line or you will lose her.

I hope that helps and makes sense, and I know my perspective isn't the best and possibly doesn't completely apply to her personality or yours, but hopefully it was somewhat helpful.

[Spirit_Master_X]

I told her how I felt about her "too friendly/flirty" nature with my friend or with anyone and she still continues to do it, like you said, subconsciously. Now I get it, she doesn't mean to do it but it just happens anyway. Like no matter what I say or what I express what I feel, she will continue to do it until I get sick of it and leave her. Technically as explained she is pushing me to do the same thing to her. She saw my reaction to that plenty of times...how many more times do I gotta put up with that???

She got upset at me for talking to a girl I once had sex with on facebook. Granted what me and this girl did, we regretted it. Apparently, she cried her eyes out in front of the girl over a guy. So its ok for her to flirt subconsciously...but not me? This world does not belong to just women and the way I see it, all of this is unfair. I'm going to do the same thing to her and her closest friend. Get close with her friend to make things even and see how she would react.

Also she told me herself she felt uncomfortable when girls talk to me and so I was considerate of her feelings and stopped talking to a lot of girls, whereas she keeps doing her too friendly thing anyway despite that I feel uncomfortable about it. A co-worker of mine who is also a girl pulled my hair at work. I told my girlfriend about it and she got upset at me for not doing anything to stop it. So its ok for her to pull my friend's hair, but I get yelled at when another girl pulls my hair???

Recently I've been giving her hints that I'am starting to become unhappy and she picked up on it. Like when I tell her "I love you" she says "You dont mean that" or..."I feel like you're unhappy" oh really??? ha! I wonder why. Yes, I'am too clingy because she cheated twice before in her past relationships so this whole too friendly/flirty thing scares the shit out of me. Whats gonna stop her from doing the same thing to me??? Absolutely nothing. Shes gonna do it "anyway" subconsciously.

I mean hell, why not just cheat on her and get even quicker???

This post has been edited by Spirit_Master_X: Nov 13 2012, 03:12 AM

[Jonnie19]

Don't cheat on her. Sorry but that is the wimps way out. If you're not happy just tell her. You both are very worried that the other is going to cheat. You need to build on your trust. If you love each other, then other people shouldn't matter! You need to have trust if you have none of that then there is no point in you being together. If you love each other, you'll trust in each other. As I said before, don't cheat on her cause then you'll just loose all respect from a lot of people including your friends.

[Licentia Per Ori...]

mwha - a classic conundrum.

so i live life balsy - and my "advice" is going to reflect that.

First thing I would want to know. Does he REALLY see her as a "sister", now your gf mite think he does, genuinly think thats the case, but does he?

Easy to find out.
wait till it's just the 3 of you and he is getting some attention from her. And confidently grab your girl by the hips and kiss her. (proper Hollywood movie style, hell say something cheesy and romantic just before you do)
run your hands over her body a bit and grab her arse etc. make it 100% passion, obviously you will have your eyes closed.

open them and look your mate rite in the eye.
how does he look?
you will be able to see on his little face immediately whether he is thinking "oh c'mon guys, we were talking here, get a room or save it for later yea" or if he is thinking "I wish that was me she was kissing like that"

now wether he is on your girls case or not. it's sounds like this guy should probably be taken out of the equation.
No...don't look up agent 47 in the phonebook.
Get him a girl of his own. even getting him laid will do it.

if you can only get him laid. do so. find some slut, tell her he is really likes her, but is shy etc. get both together add booze, bob's your auntie.
then when you are toegether (you him gf) get him to talk about how he f**cked her. get him to give a few details and don't let him dodge the questions. (if your girl does kinda fancy him - this will most likely "break the spell")

next up and better

get him a gf - so find a clingy slut
once he has that..even if they have only been together for a bit....use the powers of female suspicion and jealousy in your favour.
be subtle - "ha ha must be great going out with "terry" and getting so many compliments all the time..."
"compliments all the time...no more than normal i'd say"
"oh well he's always saying nice thing about my "amber""

just plant those seeds. trust me, hook him up with the right kind of girl and she won't be having ANY of it.

next up...and as a tactic if you can't get him laid or that doesn't work.
use your noodle and engineer a situation where he does something really sh1tty to her.
the shittier the better.
This is best done with the help of someone.

example. friend says he will meet her at say 9pm to go see a film together. she asks if you want to come along, you say no.
then get a "true friend" to meet up with him before hand, and get him drunk / stoned and use epic peer pressure to leave her standing at the street corner like a douche. Also make sure while he is drinking...that someone keeps his phone off...

at this point...you need to make sure that YOU have an iron clad excuse for being uncontactable too.
she is gonna feel shit.
let down etc.
and when she says...
"you left me stranded at a street corner on my own, and you didn't even pick up your phone, I had to get back home ON MY OWN...i was so embarressed. how could you do that"
like an idiot your "freind" will reply "sorry i got drunk / stoned / whatever"

and this NEVER CUTS it...worse if he lies...you just call him out on his lie.
"what? but "bobby" told me you guy's were doing jeagerbombs in the irish pub that nite"

now he's unreliable guy who got drunk and f*cked a slut.

There are many tactics like this, It's the "offence" way of thinking about it. be the alpha.
apart from that, you gotta play it cool and act like you don't care.
reasure her, of course it doesn't bother me, because it's not like your doing anything with him right?

thats senario 1.
there are 20 or so more.
but that would be the first move.
see what he is really about
and either way. get him out of the equation.

also, on a final note.
if he doesn't see her as a friend. start the vibe going that he's always looking at her arse and her tits.
"i don't mind, it's just a bit weird is all"
and NO, he doesn't do it to other girls.

good luck

This post has been edited by Licentia Per Oris: Nov 13 2012, 09:03 AM

[Shaddow]

@licentia - Have you ever actually tried that? Has it EVER worked for you? I'm sorry, but that is the worst possible way for him to keep his relationship OR his friendship, if he does something so blatantly mean, he's going to lose everything. I admit, there are times for direct questioning and even sometimes tests, but for him to try any of those things would be a sign that he does not care about her or his friend and only his own blind jealousy matters.

I'm sorry, but that was just plain bad advice.

[Licentia Per Ori...]

@licentia - Have you ever actually tried that? Has it EVER worked for you? I'm sorry, but that is the worst possible way for him to keep his relationship OR his friendship, if he does something so blatantly mean, he's going to lose everything. I admit, there are times for direct questioning and even sometimes tests, but for him to try any of those things would be a sign that he does not care about her or his friend and only his own blind jealousy matters.

I'm sorry, but that was just plain bad advice.

how is any of it blatantly mean?

Kissing your girlfriend in front of your mate who has "no romantic intentions" towards her is mean?

Getting your mate some secks is mean?

Getting your mate a girlf friend who will give him lots and lots and lots of attention (plus 3 kids if he's not carefull ) is mean?

the final option mite be mean, but not really in the grand scheme of things. but all you're really doing is giving the "friend" an opportunity to be an asshole. It requires him to be an asshole all by himself
(you can't con an honest john!)

also, he doesn't sound like much of a friend.
friend one: "hey man, I'm not really feeling the way you and my girl are getting all close"
friend two "OK man cool. You don't need to worry, but i'll make sure she is definitely not on me in that way, she doesn't like people who tell racist jokes right?"

Thats what a friend would say. If this guy was a friend, then the OP wouldn't even exist.

but yea, you know. the other option is to focus on the girl, while giving this "friend" complete free reign to set himself up and position himself to get closer and closer to her.
see how that works out.

[Shaddow]

No. Jealousy and revenge plots only ever hurt relationships. If they are going to do this to him, then nothing he does will change that, unless she is only seeking attention because she is not getting what she wants from him. Going your route is showing his insecurities and solving one problem, but if she is trying to get attention because she doesn't get what she wants, then all he is doing is waiting for this to happen at a later date.

This is a bad situation all around, but by forcing something like this, all he is doing is making sure the worst possible situation can happen. That is not how you treat your friends or a girl you love. There are a thousand better ways to handle this situation.

[Spirit_Master_X]

Guys lets try and stay focus please. Real advice and reql truth is all im asking for.

[Licentia Per Ori...]

it's not about jealousy and revenge.

Mate i'm not exactly a spring chicken anymore. I have stolen more women from their boyfriends / husbands than you have probably had girls in total.

Right now by the sounds of it, the f*ckup clause is on the OP. As in if he f*cks up (which we all inevitably do at some point) she is gonna lean on the "friend". So over time there will be a closeness building there. and what if the "freind" makes active use of that?

make the f*ckup clause on the "friend".

we are assuming that he is some kind of d!ckless wonder who doesn't know what he is doing.
who says he hasn't had his eye on the girl for some time?

That's why the first thing he needs to do is find out WHAT he is thinking.
Kissing in front of friends is perfectly normal thing to do.

Just to give you an example. If it was me, I'd probably take her from you, have my fun. then ditch her.
YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW EASY THIS IS TO!

remember. ALL IS FAIR IN LOVE AND WAR.
your not forcing anything. you are simply being active in holding onto what is important to you.
If you seriously stand still and let other guys out maneuver you, you will lose her.
I am assuming you're both young. and trust me when i tell this does not work in your favour.
If this was a 35 yr old woman. grounded and secure in herself, different conversation.

But were probably talking about a teenager / early 20's. riddled with insecurities and uncertainties.
you can sit back and do nothing if you want.
But someone like me. will take her from you.

Just give it 5 minutes of thought. how can you position yourself in such a way that this person is no longer a threat.
because right now that is what he is. a threat.

you can do it all under the radar. It's not being mean. It's not being nasty.
It's being smart.

[Shaddow]

Sorry to get off topic Spirit Master, I was trying to make sure you didn't get any bad advice. You are smart enough to make your own decision on the right path to take on this though, so I apologize for arguing in your thread.

[Magical_RuNE_Kni...]

Hmm. Im a girl myself too, and idk, i kind of do think she kinda likes him.
Like i would never tell a guy stuff like that or especially touch his hair if i didnt like him.
Ive never actually even met/ heard of a girl who plays with a guys hair unless she likes him. O.o >.<

If theres one thing that is clear though, its that ur unhappy with the relationship. U admitted that urself right?
Another conclusion: U dont seem to be completely happy with ur girlfriend either. U admitted that as well too correct?

it might be a good idea to ask urself why ur staying in the relationship then. If it isnt out of love, what is it?
If ur staying in the relationship because ur hoping she'll come back to u, ur not living ur life the way it could be. U r living, waiting on a hope, that may or may not happen. U may even have to wait until 20 years later before she wants to get back w/ u. What then though? Do u think u will likely still love her and accept her after those 20 years?

Heres a third conclusion: u are unhappy, correct? U also want to solve the situation correct? That is something u admitted as well.


Looking at all this and at what can be concluded, I honestly think it would prolly be best for u two to maybe spend some time apart. If u stay in the relationship, i think the odds of u two getting more friction will only increase. I also think the odds of the relationship worsening instead of recovering will grow, as i think u also reported.
I really do not think u got into this relationship to be unhappy and dislike it. That may be how it is now though, and u can choose to stick with being unhappy or show that u can be just as happy w/ someone else or on ur own : p either way, it is not a very healthy relationship.


P.s: my dad once told me a story about a dog and a nail; the dog was sitting on an old nail in pain, until one day a man passed by.
The man saw the dog and asked the owner why the dog didnt move off the nail. The owner said, "it doesnt hurt enough for the dog to want to".
: )

[Sparrowsmith]

sounds very similar to a couple I've been close to IRL, and I basically became their relationship councillor, so I'll throw in my two cents.
quick note, I used past tense just now because they did split up, but on very good terms and because one of the was moving some distance away. They still act like a couple whenever they are together. It's complicated, but we'll focus on when they were a couple.

In the majority of relationships, there will be one party who is just a little more paranoid than the other. This is why trust is so important in a relationship. You have to be honest and trust that she'll be honest. Accusations don't really help at all, and I'll use my example couple to show this:
B is rather suspicious of A and thinks he might become romantically involved with other people. A knows this, but A would never do that. A goes to a party where another girl ends up naked. A decides not to tell B because B would think it was more serious than it was. B eventually finds out and has a fight with A. A fails to realize it was his secrecy, not his actions, that caused the fight, so he tries even HARDER to hide his mistakes in the future.
B tries to get back at A by going on night's out without talking to A at all, so he doesn't know what she's doing or who she's with.
A tries to fix this by going with her so he can make sure B is not with anyone else, but instead A gets annoyed because he sees other guys looking at his girlfriend.
B then complains that A isn't having any fun and clearly isn't enjoying being around her, so she talks to people she meets on the night out, which is usually the people A is being made annoyed by.
This continues to escalate.
It escalates until some bad stuff actually does happen on both sides. One of them is entirely honest about it, the other hides it up.
It escalates further.

The couple was healthy until they started doubting each other, pushing each other away, and making it impossible to be happy around one another. At the same time, if they had trusted each other's stories, they also would have been okay. Even if little things were happening, it was the secrecy and suspicion that did the damage, not the actions.

If you get more and more suspicious of your gf, then you're encouraging her to be more secretive so that you won't get mad. When you find out, you'll see this as an act of disloyalty, when really she's just tired of getting the third degree. Eventually you'll have no idea what she's really doing and then something actually could happen because she won't even be thinking about you.
It makes a lot more sense to trust your gf. If she is loyal and you push her away, you'll never forgive yourself. If she isn't loyal and you push her away, then you'll want to know why she wasn't loyal. If she isn't loyal and you don't push her away, then at the very least you can have a happy relationship before you find out. If she is loyal and you don't push her away, then you have a shot at something great.

As for the friend, you have to trust your friends.
And you have to trust your girlfriend's friends.

I have a friend who I had a very odd romantic history with, but now we are just very close friends. In fact, even though I don't see her often, I'm probably her best friend. Her boyfriend is definitely a jealous type, but he makes a really good effort to trust me, and we've actually become pretty good friends. The weird thing is, she has mussed by hair before, but it was just a friendly thing. I've never been confronted by her bf, and as far as I can tell they've never argued about me. That's trust, and they make a really good couple.

So basically, it's not what your partner is doing, it's how they feel about it, and how you respond to it, that damages a relationship.
try to trust her, trust your friend, and don't push her away.

[Licentia Per Ori...]

yup, sparrow is right about trust.

After all when you consider infidelity, it's usually not the act itself that causes grief, but the deception that goes with it.

You do need to trust her. But at the same time. People are people and will often sucumb to temptation.

If it were me i would trust the girl but not the man.

Get him out of the equation.
And if he knows how you feel and doesn't change his attitude. then he is not much of a friend i'd say.

[Spirit_Master_X]

Well I asked her if she liked my friend and she gave me a unexpected answer. She told me that if there was ever a crush she had with someone then what is the point of being with the person you're with...and she reassured me for the 100th time that she does not like him. I went to my friend and he said that he would not do that to me ever. She told me she sees him as a sister...and he said he sees her as a dude. He also told me that they are just two very social people who may can come off as flirty due to their friendly nature...

He told me in his exact words...
"You can't go on thinking what if. I mean you two stay together, share a bed together, go grocery shopping together...She is yours. I think you have a hard time accepting the fact that she is your girlfriend. The way you are acting now, I don't see any potential between you to, but if you come somehow work on your doubts and insecurities internally then there is potential."

I just don't know why I've been feeling like I'm losing her. I guess throughout all the accusations...accusing her of liking him so many times...I'm just beginning to wonder if she is starting to go for him more...

This post has been edited by Spirit_Master_X: Nov 15 2012, 05:36 PM

[Jonnie19]

I think the reason why you think it's not going to work, is purely because you don't think very highly of yourself. Sorry if this is completely incorrect. but it seems your self-esteem is so low perhaps you might feel that you aren't good enough for her?
Which is complete BS from what i've read. You actually care about this girl. So I love what your friend said and in his words exactly:

She is yours.

Stop feeling like she's gonna cheat on you, and enjoy your relationship with her. Each relationship you learn something. Every single relationship you are in teaches you more about yourself and you can grow and develop in yourself. Even if it "fails" it's NOT a failure. It's a learning curve. I have come from a relationship that was destructive, and it has made me who I am today. I am stronger because of everything I've been through.
Anywho, just enjoy your relationship with your girl, if it last awesome if it doesn't than LEARN from it.
Stop feeling that you're not good enough and enjoy your life.
Carpe Diem! or "seize the day"
Just enjoy your life, enjoy your relationships because they teach you so damn much!

[Kaust]

You actually care about this girl. So I love what your friend said and in his words exactly:

She is yours.

Really Jonnie? From what I've read so far that kinda seems the problem. I don't wanna go all feminist or rant about power struggles in relationships but there have been so many examples so far where S_M_X seems unhappy about her simply being herself around the other guy (dont know them but whatever).
A lot of the miscommunication seems to be around S_M_X wanting the girl to act differently, to act more like 'she's his', when naturally she wouldn't feel that way, if anything she would more likely consider S_M_X to be hers. There's more to that sentence than just switching the parties around so dwell on it.
Now about your concerns about her cheating on you, or anything along those lines, its unpleasant to hear but its out of your control. Because she is her own person and because she can and will make her own decisions. That said, why cheat on you when she could simply break it off with you? Now I know firsthand thats not always the case, but I'm assuming you're both reasonable adults and so far there hasnt been a lot of ties mentioned that couldnt easily be severed (isn't that your concern after all? Well now its your biggest relief). You seem afraid nothing is holding her to you, nothing makes her yours, but wouldnt you rather she was with you out of her own choice?

[Stonerman]

You actually care about this girl. So I love what your friend said and in his words exactly:

She is yours.

Really Jonnie? From what I've read so far that kinda seems the problem. I don't wanna go all feminist or rant about power struggles in relationships but there have been so many examples so far where S_M_X seems unhappy about her simply being herself around the other guy (dont know them but whatever).

That's not it at all. If she were simply being around him, that's simple. Its her interactions with him that make him uncomfortable/upset.

A lot of the miscommunication seems to be around S_M_X wanting the girl to act differently, to act more like 'she's his', when naturally she wouldn't feel that way, if anything she would more likely consider S_M_X to be hers. There's more to that sentence than just switching the parties around so dwell on it.

Here's the thing. When in a relationship with someone, generally you'll(or I will, don't know you on a personal level) say "That's my girlfriend" and things of that nature. The relationship is the possessive, not the person. The "She is your's" comment isn't saying "That's your property bro" its saying "She is yours to be in a relationship with." That's the key here.

Now about your concerns about her cheating on you, or anything along those lines, its unpleasant to hear but its out of your control. Because she is her own person and because she can and will make her own decisions. That said, why cheat on you when she could simply break it off with you? Now I know firsthand thats not always the case, but I'm assuming you're both reasonable adults and so far there hasnt been a lot of ties mentioned that couldnt easily be severed (isn't that your concern after all? Well now its your biggest relief). You seem afraid nothing is holding her to you, nothing makes her yours, but wouldnt you rather she was with you out of her own choice?

According to op, she's already cheated in two prior relationships. She has a history, his fear is not entirely unwarranted. The poster earlier who gave advice on things to do to see what he really thinks and whatnot, some of it was a little over the top, but the first couple things are surely worth attempting, if not in so brazen a fashion. Make out with her in front of him, and gauge his reactions. If he's casual about it, don't worry about it. If you can get him laid/a girlfriend, then the problem will fix itself(especially the girlfriend part, since she'll likely not take too kindly to him er.... "Taking too kindly" to your girlfriend).

I'm not going to say take it all in stride and don't worry about a thing, because it would be bad advice if she DID decide to try something with your friend. What I will say is enjoy the time you have with her, let her know you care about her and just try to be in general the best thing in her life.

Or get her pregnant. Worked for me!






(Seriously don't do that last one. It was a joke.)

[Clord]

You sir, need a bottle of tequila.

As I see it, there is no point of ruining your own life because of the said person.

This post has been edited by Clord: Nov 22 2012, 01:25 AM