Level Grinding, What do you think? Options

[ninjaluc79]

Went back to playing solo RPG after nightmarish experiences with online games.

Anyways, back to the topic, I used to be a type B, because I assume that the boss has a much higher level than my current party. However, that has become a problem when more and more RPGs have monsters give the player ridiculously low amounts of EXP for some parts of the game, usually mid-game. So I told myself, "Ah, screw this, I'm going to look for solo RPGs where you don't need to grind."

And surprisingly, I did. There was a game series where you get EXP proportional to the difference between your level and the enemy's level. If the monster is much more powerful than you, you get massive EXP; otherwise, you get insignificant EXP. No need to worry about being too underleveled or overleveled because you now know whether you're strong enough to beat the boss or not. One problem with the system though, grinding to level 99 is VERY tedious unless you exploit a loophole to let you gain enough EXP to shoot up from say, 39 to 99. So what they did is to give horrendously low EXP if you defeat an enemy which is 15+ levels higher than you or so.

As a result, I became a type A without even trying to. Most RPGs that I know of nowadays only offer the player the ability to grind to level 99, and the story mode can now be finished at around level 50-60, unlike before when you're almost always guaranteed to hit whatever the max level is by the time you get to the final boss.

[rewells]

There was a game series where you get EXP proportional to the difference between your level and the enemy's level. If the monster is much more powerful than you, you get massive EXP; otherwise, you get insignificant EXP.

Which series is that? Sounds like a logical concept, as in reality you wouldn't become equally more experienced by doing the same thing over and other again - you'd usually master the task after the first couple of times.

And yeah, Final Fantasy I-IV pretty much require you to get all the skills and do all the side-quest to be strong enough to beat the game, whereas the others 100% completion is optional and requires an ass-load of playtime. I was really proud of myself for beating the Emerald Weapon in 7 (granted it does require skill), but to even get strong enough to have a chance I know I poured at least 20 hours or so in chocobo racing and level grinding. Since then I've yet to 100% complete an FF game because I lose interest once the story is over. At least in 7 the Emerald Weapon plays a role in the main story, so there's some emotional reward for killing it. I don't really see the pleasure in doing hundreds of fetch quest to be rewarded with a fight with a giant sand lizard with 50 million HP (Yiazmat from FFXII)

[udivision]

There was a game series where you get EXP proportional to the difference between your level and the enemy's level. If the monster is much more powerful than you, you get massive EXP; otherwise, you get insignificant EXP.

Which series is that? Sounds like a logical concept, as in reality you wouldn't become equally more experienced by doing the same thing over and other again - you'd usually master the task after the first couple of times.

Off the top of my head, Pokemon Black & White started doing this. Also... pretty much... every MMORPG.

This post has been edited by udivision: Jul 19 2012, 04:19 PM

[Amy Pond]

Grinding works in MMORPGs because it serves simply as something to consume time with while waiting for a new content update. But in a game which is finished and complete with nothing to wait for, grinding is largely pointless unless the battles are interesting enough.

For a game based on battles I'd expect maybe to have to fight ten battles between each area or something, that's a given. But when it gets into the hundreds, or thousands, just to beat one boss it gets very boring and better be worth it.

Sometimes grinding is a necessity. But I think if you can replace it with other things - exp giving side quests, battle arenas, something that isn't just doing the same thing over and over again - you should.

[TheCableGuy]

Quite simply, I'm perfectly fine with a steady amount of Grinding as long as I don't feel like I have to put the game on hold while I go out to farm EXP for a while so I can continue where I left off (This goes for Farming gold/money as well.)

I most appreciate games that allow you to "Kill on the move" as you move from point A to point B, as long as it's not a Random Occurrence fight system. Maybe if it's just enough to feel like the Game is "Hindering your Quest" but not so much that it makes you feel like you're just wasting your time. I hate games when every 3 steps, you're getting randomly attacked by a group of Mobs that are 3 lvls lower then you, that you can one hit each of them, and get drops that are more "Vendor trash" then useful, so you either waste time and/or Mana to swat them down or you just get bored running from them (assuming the Game Maker ALLOWS running, then I'm more likely to just close the game and Delete it.)

Now, I'm not totally against Random Occurring battles as long as I can make it from point A to point B with minimal attacks, but if I choose to stay and fight, I can do a few laps around the map and Farm for a few mins, as long as the kills net me something worthwhile. But I've also played games where the spawn rate of the random battles were so long, that I'd spend a full min or two walking back and forth before I'd get a bite.

So, Grinding is Ok so long as WHAT you're grinding is taken into account.

This post has been edited by TheCableGuy: Aug 16 2012, 06:37 AM

[Amy Pond]

One of the Final Fantasies (can't remember which one) dealt well with that, having items you can equip to raise, lower, make extreme, or diminish completely the level of random encounters. I think it would be better as an option in the menu though.

[Shaddow]

grew up with the era of grinding, such as the Dragon Quest series, which pretty much require it, so it doesn't bother me. I personally like to balance out the EXP to next level track, so that it grows quickly.

for example it takes maybe 20 EXP to get from level 1 to 2 and 50 to get to level 3, then it takes 150 to get to 4. Enemies in the first area give maybe 4 EXP each, and you can fight up to 2 of them at a time. This makes leveling quick for lower levels but if you stay too long it gets almost pointless. It's a useful system to keep grinders happy, but make it a challenge for the player to be too overpowered.

[rewells]

for example it takes maybe 20 EXP to get from level 1 to 2 and 50 to get to level 3, then it takes 150 to get to 4. Enemies in the first area give maybe 4 EXP each, and you can fight up to 2 of them at a time. This makes leveling quick for lower levels but if you stay too long it gets almost pointless. It's a useful system to keep grinders happy, but make it a challenge for the player to be too overpowered.

I think that's kind of what I set up in my project. That system creates a kind of artificial level cap, where it's possible to continue gaining levels but doing so would take ridiculously long considering how much EXP current monsters are dropping. Most JRPGs do this pretty naturally, I think.

[userjosh704]

I HATE RPGs where you can choose the difficulties! The whole point is to play the ROLE not get to choose different ones on different settings. Now as for battle grinding I think its a necessary evil, you only get better by having more experience in combat, everyone knows this, now as for the right balance of this that hard to say, some ppl overdue it some dont.

I think there is no one point to an RPG. It's different for everyone. Some games, I enjoy minmaxing the crap out of my characters. Not sure I care about difficulty settings either. I thought the RPGs I played featuring difficulty settings were ridiculous. In Lunar and Lunar 2, the game is designed so you'll always be within the appropriate level range. I'm ok with that. I like farming more than I like grinding, but it depends on the rate of rewards and overall benefit vs. the amount of time and effort and difficulty.

This post has been edited by userjosh704: Apr 22 2013, 02:39 PM