About acquiring resources Options

[Oceans Dream]

So you look at the RMVX RTP and decide "Hmmm, the type of character I want isn't there. Lemme go look for a new one!" or that you want your game to actually have its own look. This is great! Be careful of where you take your resources from though.
If you make them yourself (and you indeed can do this, and for a shameless plug, my own pixel blog at http://pixel.oceansdream.net goes over some of this!), then that is no problem. But if you're looking for resources available online, take a bit of care first.

When looking for resources, be sure that the resources are actually available for use. Just because you see a graphic online doesn't mean it's ripe for the taking. Some people may not want to see their graphics in anyone elses game, and some people are just fine with it as long as you give credit. Please do. Write it down somewhere even, so you don't forget later to credit them!

If you see a graphic and are not sure where it's from, ASK. There's likely someone who will know. Then it can be found if it is okay to use it or not. Some people make resources gladly for other people to use. Some people don't want that. And doing something like ripping graphics from another indie game is terrible. Even if the game is in a different language, don't assume you can just get away with it. Use resources that are available to use, try making your own, maybe ask or pay someone to make you some, but don't rip other peoples resources without permission!

If you try to contact someone about if it's okay to use a resource and they don't get back to you, assume it's NOT okay to use it unless you're told otherwise. They might have switched emails, rarely check it, or some other reason but might still not want to see their graphics used.

[Sailerius]

This is a thread that everyone here should read. It is never okay to use someone else's work without their permission. This goes for any kind of resource - music you find on Youtube, character art you find on DeviantArt, sprites you find on a Japanese site, or sprites you rip from games. Artists slave away to produce these resources and their will should be respected. Whether it's stealing resources from someone's site or from Final Fantasy, plagiarism is never okay.

As an addendum: Crediting the original artist does not make it okay unless the artist explicitly gave permission for their work to be used in the first place.

[udivision]

I don't see the problem with using graphics from commercial games because no one would ever get the impression that you are in any way responsible for the resources, or that an iota of credit goes to you for their existence. However, ripping stuff from indie games can be dangerous because not everyone knows about that indie game and they might get the impression that you made them. Even if you throw in a credit tag. Plus it's a matter of respect. People make fan games because they're fans (typically) but stealing resources from random RPG Maker Game X probably has little to do with your admiration for that game, and more to do with "That looks pretty, me takey."

[Zortik]

I don't see the problem with using graphics from commercial games because no one would ever get the impression that you are in any way responsible for the resources, or that an iota of credit goes to you for their existence. However, ripping stuff from indie games can be dangerous because not everyone knows about that indie game and they might get the impression that you made them. Even if you throw in a credit tag. Plus it's a matter of respect. People make fan games because they're fans (typically) but stealing resources from random RPG Maker Game X probably has little to do with your admiration for that game, and more to do with "That looks pretty, me takey."

There is a problem with that though. You are still directly ripping their resources that they put time, effort, and money into. This kind of warped logic will get you in trouble someday. Just because it is well known, to the point where everyone could recognize any aspect of it upon first glance or hearing it, doesn't give you or anyone else the green light to use their resources.

If you want to make a fan game, directly contact them and request permission to use their material in a game. Specify what you will be using, how it will be used, and what your goal will be for making this game. Then, if they turn you down, move on.

Bottom line, unless it is your own creation don't use it without permission. Even then, be sure to credit whomever was responsible for making the resource in question.

[udivision]

I don't know, a hobbyist's little project doesn't seem to warrant a greenlighting from a multi-million dollar corporation.

[Zortik]

I don't know, a hobbyist's little project doesn't seem to warrant a greenlighting from a multi-million dollar corporation.

That's the same kind of excuse used when torrenting films and other material. I can't afford it, they make enough money anyway, or it should be cheaper. Bottom line, whether you agree with it or not, is that it's stealing.

Sorry, but there is no nice way to say this. I can't help whether or not this offends you, it's just the way it is.

[udivision]

I see where you're coming from, but I don't think either of us are going to change our opinions on the matter.

[Sailerius]

I see where you're coming from, but I don't think either of us are going to change our opinions on the matter.

It's not a matter of opinion. It's a matter of basic ethics. Saying "it's just your opinion" is cowering from the point.

[Twilight]

I don't see the problem with using graphics from commercial games because no one would ever get the impression that you are in any way responsible for the resources, or that an iota of credit goes to you for their existence. However, ripping stuff from indie games can be dangerous because not everyone knows about that indie game and they might get the impression that you made them. Even if you throw in a credit tag. Plus it's a matter of respect. People make fan games because they're fans (typically) but stealing resources from random RPG Maker Game X probably has little to do with your admiration for that game, and more to do with "That looks pretty, me takey."

The issue with this is that you're STEALING someones work. It's not an issue of overused, unknown, or widely known resources. There are PLENTY of free use resources that people can use in their games but everyone seems to accept rips and use them even though the very act is stealing.
The reasons a number of fan game get shut down isn't because they're fan games, it's because they're stealing the countless hours of work put into each individual item that someone else slaved at to create. This isn't limited to graphical resources but also to things like Final Fantasy's staple Spell Tiers, and unique gameplay mechanics that are a blatant rip of something else.

This post has been edited by Twilight: May 11 2011, 05:51 PM

[udivision]

Yea, you're right. But I really don't have anything else to say. And I'm not sure if there's anything else to be said.

Anyways, maybe RPGRevolution shouldn't even allow blatant uses of other peoples works (i.e. fan games, ripped graphics) or at least stealing from other indie devs. I know the first one would be a lot easier to enforce. I

This post has been edited by udivision: May 11 2011, 05:52 PM

[Vanit]

I agree with the hobbyist mentality that has been mentioned. RPG Maker hobbyist != indie developer. Most rpg maker users do not consider themselves indie developers, they are hobbyists doing their own little thing for themselves, and maybe to share with a few hundred players in whatever community they're in. Its like someone making an AMV thats mashed up of clips from real anime or shows - are you saying these people should make all the clips themselves because thats the 'ethical' thing to do? Thats not the point. RPG Maker is first and foremost an exercise in game design, and as such acquiring original resources is low priority; they just want something that approximates their vision so they can share their ideas. The purpose is not to take credit for other people's work, but to share their concepts in a indefinite prototype as a hobby. Taking resources from a commercial game as a hobbyist should not (and is not) considered taboo.

I was under the impression that this thread stated that you should not take resources without permission from ARTISTS due to ETHICS. The fact of the matter is that resources in a commercial game belong to game company, not the artists they employed. Taking credit for other people's work is one thing, but can you really blame hobbyists for taking shortcuts so they can have a bit of fun?

Having said that, if you're using rpg maker as an indie dev tool such as I am, I don't think you should be using anyone else's resources.

[udivision]

Apparently there was more to be said, as evidenced by Vanit. It's a much better articulation of what I wanted to get acorss.

[Zortik]

I agree with the hobbyist mentality that has been mentioned. RPG Maker hobbyist != indie developer. Most rpg maker users do not consider themselves indie developers, they are hobbyists doing their own little thing for themselves, and maybe to share with a few hundred players in whatever community they're in. Its like someone making an AMV thats mashed up of clips from real anime or shows - are you saying these people should make all the clips themselves because thats the 'ethical' thing to do? Thats not the point. RPG Maker is first and foremost an exercise in game design, and as such acquiring original resources is low priority; they just want something that approximates their vision so they can share their ideas. The purpose is not to take credit for other people's work, but to share their concepts in a indefinite prototype as a hobby. Taking resources from a commercial game as a hobbyist should not (and is not) considered taboo.

I was under the impression that this thread stated that you should not take resources without permission from ARTISTS due to ETHICS. The fact of the matter is that resources in a commercial game belong to game company, not the artists they employed. Taking credit for other people's work is one thing, but can you really blame hobbyists for taking shortcuts so they can have a bit of fun?

Having said that, if you're using rpg maker as an indie dev tool such as I am, I don't think you should be using anyone else's resources.

Tell me, what is the difference from ripping Final Fantasy 6 sprites and/or battlers and using them in your game. From ripping Microsoft Office 2003?

Both are outdated and have been around for a long time. I'm curious as to how you answer this.

[udivision]

It's more like ripping FF sprites and sound effects and ripping Microsoft Office icons and sound effects.

Or maybe romhacking an actual FF game and downloading Office 2k3.

This post has been edited by udivision: May 11 2011, 06:39 PM

[Vanit]

Tell me, what is the difference from ripping Final Fantasy 6 sprites and/or battlers and using them in your game. From ripping Microsoft Office 2003?

Both are outdated and have been around for a long time. I'm curious as to how you answer this.

Eh? I'm not sure what resources you're talking about ripping from MS Office 2003, but the age of the source has nothing to do with the comment I made. The point is as a hobbyist you're not really worried about where you pull the resources from that you use to supplement your own work. Its not an ethical dilema. Its simply that you're not in it for taking credit for anything, aside from maybe the compilation or your design. Its a learning experience, and for educational purposes a lot of things are exempt from copyright so long as you're not passing it off as your own work.

[Zortik]

It's more like ripping FF sprites and sound effects and ripping Microsoft Office icons and sound effects.

You are drastically understating what you are taking.

I cannot comprehend how you see taking sprites from a video game is comparable to saving an icon from Microsoft Office.

A more realistic comparison would be to say, ripping sprites from Final Fantasy is just like taking Microsoft Word and Powerpoint. But, I didn't take all of Office, so it's okay.

As for Vanit, your mentality on this subject seems to fall within the realms of "everyone else has been doing it, so what's the big deal?"

Stealing is stealing. It doesn't matter if you're the first kid on the block to do it, or you live in an area where stealing is a way of life and most people don't bat an eye at it.

This post has been edited by Zortik: May 11 2011, 06:43 PM

[Rob_Riv]

The point is as a hobbyist you're not really worried about where you pull the resources from that you use to supplement your own work. Its not an ethical dilema. Its simply that you're not in it for taking credit for anything, aside from maybe the compilation or your design. Its a learning experience, and for educational purposes a lot of things are exempt from copyright so long as you're not passing it off as your own work.

So applying this, can a hobbyist take resources from other games on RPG Maker websites ethically (as it doesn't seem to be a dilemma to you)?

[udivision]

Sprites = Program? I don't think so.
If you were making your own program, you might rip icons from others to start off. But if you were going to really push the program as your new fantastic wonder software, maybe even sell it as one point, using those ripped icons and sounds wouldn't fly.

EDIT: Now we have a mod here, I want to ask. Why are blatantly ripped sprites/resourced allowed?

This post has been edited by udivision: May 11 2011, 06:50 PM

[Sailerius]

Its simply that you're not in it for taking credit for anything, aside from maybe the compilation or your design. Its a learning experience, and for educational purposes a lot of things are exempt from copyright so long as you're not passing it off as your own work.

Read my first post. Whether you take credit for someone's work or not, it's still theft to use it without their express permission. It is NOT exempt from copyright for "educational purposes" unless the original artist explicitly says so. You clearly have no idea how copyright law works. I'm not sure if you're misinformed or deliberately spreading misinformation, but what you said is simply untrue.

[Zortik]

Sprites = Program? I don't think so.
If you were making your own program, you might rip icons from others to start off. But if you were going to really push the program as your new fantastic wonder software, maybe even sell it as one point, using those ripped icons and sounds wouldn't fly.

You are doing a very bad thing with cross comparison. I am not comparing sprites to programming directly. I am comparing the importance factor. As in the sprites of Final Fantasy 6 are as important to the entire game as Microsoft Word and Powerpoint are to Office as a program.

This post has been edited by Zortik: May 11 2011, 06:52 PM