Full Heal after every battle, like in FF13 for example. Options

[Tsureiyu]

What do you guys think of full health and magic after every battle?
you can't make HP-reducing traps in the map as a downside though, for one.
but then the focus is on battles; it's not so much just slowly draining your potions in a dungeon as it is putting emphasis on each battle. that way, party HP can fluctuate in each battle very quickly, also, then each battle will need a strategy, instead of generic mooks just draining your potions.
As a result though, there'll be less you can do in the maps.

there's still the possibility of instant-kill traps, but to me that's just cheap.

Like in FF13, the maps are quite linear, there's not much other than the chests and such. but that didn't make it really an easier game, since a few of the "regular" enemies could be capable of killing you (either that or i'm just not a hardcore asian like people might think i am xD)

so, whats your guys opinion on this? i'm wondering if i should do it for my project.

[Amy Pond]

I much prefer it because it makes winning battles about the battle itself, and not what you've done previously. It also stops people getting caught in traps (I'm stuck in FFI right now because I've saved at a bad time and can't get back to an Inn with these characters).

If there isn't full heal after battle, there needs to be some kind of "teleport to last Inn" option.

I don't, however, think that having full heal means less being able to be on maps - special events and such don't need HP or MP to work well. It just needs well thought out events. Perhaps a "trap" leads to a small sidestory. Maybe a trap lands you in a dungeon where you fight some monsters to get out.

Or, perhaps, you can still get damaged, and the next battle you go into you have those damaged stats, but are still healed after the battle. This helps people who are poisoned by traps but don't have a poison curer - they can just enter a battle, endure it, win it, and come out without poison.

[SynthesisRTF]

It does sound like a more unique idea, and it can make battles a lot harder, thus increasing challenge.

You're going to have to change the menus around to remove data about current HP and MP though.

This post has been edited by SynthesisRTF: Aug 18 2012, 08:57 AM

[Jens of Zanicuud]

It does sound like a more unique idea, and it can make battles a lot harder, thus increasing challenge.

You're going to have to change the menus around to remove data about current HP and MP though.

I think that's not required. You should be aware of how many HP/MP you have at the beginning of the battle.
Since HP/MP will rise with level (or at least I suppose), I think it would be better to show them anyway.

Obviously, with a full heal feature like this you can effectively make battles more complicated.
If I were you, I'd give a look to this project, in which the author implemented the feature you were talking about:

A Dust Tale

If you are planning to use that system, you will have to do a lot of work on enemies' AI to make every battle very challenging.
Anyway, I'm for this idea, I've made something similar in one of my previous projects and worked quite well.

So... keep on your way, it's a rather good idea.

Jens

[Kulimar]

I agree. I prefer that the battles are self-contained. It's such a chore to have to "clean-up" after ever fight with health potions and the like.

This post has been edited by Kulimar: Aug 18 2012, 02:10 PM

[SynthesisRTF]

It does sound like a more unique idea, and it can make battles a lot harder, thus increasing challenge.

You're going to have to change the menus around to remove data about current HP and MP though.

I think that's not required. You should be aware of how many HP/MP you have at the beginning of the battle.
Since HP/MP will rise with level (or at least I suppose), I think it would be better to show them anyway.

If you're going to be healed at the end of every battle, it's pretty obvious that you're going into battle with your max HP/MP.

Unless there are traps or something that will reduce your HP/MP.

[Tsureiyu]

Or, perhaps, you can still get damaged, and the next battle you go into you have those damaged stats, but are still healed after the battle. This helps people who are poisoned by traps but don't have a poison curer - they can just enter a battle, endure it, win it, and come out without poison.

Eh, it could work that way too- i guess i'll think about it. Though in FF13 they remove the HP bar altogether and simply displays the character's max HP only at the menu; then again, it could be nice to try something different.
And i do agree about the getting caught thing, especially when there's no way out other than purely using potions as the battles end up as "attack until HP/MP low, then use potions." ..And you run out of potions.


@Jens-
That looks interesting.. i'll take a look at the demo in a bit.
i do plan to take my time and ensure little/nothing is rushed. though i might not have a lot of time daily, there's no set deadline either. it'll require hours of reading articles on good design.. xD
for HP/MP increase, just a note; i don't really want to increase it exponentially by the end of the game; since i had the idea of various "EX modes/forms" type of thing which increases stats. it could vary more with the monsters, but there won't be endgame bunnies with more health than the first boss for example.
Though yeah, the menu will display the character's HP.
..on a side note, still need those mech drawings? c:


So yeah, i haven't decided on the HP traps, though, the "traps trigger an event" idea sounds good to me.

[Jens of Zanicuud]

So... why not to lock levels? I'm currently working on a level-less project which is going pretty well.
You know, with a feature like this, you could give bosses similar amounts of HP and so you could avoid making the last boss overpowered.

Otherwise, you could also drop level system to employ a skill-point system (each time you gain a level, you have a set amount of points to distribute between stats)

Anyway, these two lines before are rather OT, I just wanted to give a suggestion.

Whatever is your choice, I suggest to modify damage calculation. The standard one is really crappy (on RMXP this is one of the largest flaw, together with the worst enemy AI ever seen in a video game).
For example, the attack damage is set as (weapon attack - target defense/2) * (attacker strength + 20)/20, so there's a huge multiplier (let's say that strength = 100 results in a *6 damage multiplier (!!!))

Anyway, MP refilling after battles can be a really good idea, since this will let the player deliver every sort of skills without thinking "OMG, what will I do after the battle?". This would rise the depth of the battle system too.

As regards Ex-Modes (I assume you took this term from Dissidia), the main issue will be deciding how much they will influence the battle.

And, on a side note... I don't need those mechs ATM, since I'm currently planning TryAdIne eFfect :: Day 5 and I don't know what kind of mech could appear. I just know that in Day 6 I will introduce a new kind of robot, named Razor, which should resemble a good, old reverse bipedal MT from Armored Core 2 / 3... and in Day 7 a huge AI-guided robot named Nosferatu (alas! I have no idea about the appearance!) Thanks anyway,

Jens

This post has been edited by Jens of Zanicuud: Aug 19 2012, 01:25 AM

[Vexus]

I don't really like it, it nullifies the need of items outside battles.

Could be done for certain types of games but imo not ideal in an ordinary rpg.

[Tsureiyu]

@Jens-

This is mostly off topic too..
Modifying damage calculation sounds like a good idea, i'll look into the formulas of RPGs with similar ideas.
EX modes.. aha yes i was thinking of Dissidia xD in a boss fight they'll be almost necessary; like, doing large amounts of damage but you only have a few turns to do it (..FF13 gestalt mode...)
I think i'm getting a little too influenced by FF13, since i haven't played any non-action RPGs lately.

A Mass Effect style level up is something i considered also; i'm bad at explaining things but various passives and abilties can be leveled up, with some branching into two options. So i could include something like a passive that raises two stats, but then branches out eventually so there's a major boost in only one stat.
And what do you think of characters having multiple professions/classes and weapons? Like a character would have "Warrior" as a main class but "Mage" as a secondary class, and both would level up depending on the skills used or something like that.
And msg me if you need help with the mechs, i feel like doing atleast SOMETHING useful while i'm here lool.

I don't really like it, it nullifies the need of items outside battles.

Could be done for certain types of games but imo not ideal in an ordinary rpg.

Well the one of the purposes is kinda to eliminate having to waste potions on recovery, as someone said it's kinda like having to "clean up." But buff items could also be used in the map (ughh ff13 again) that raise stats in the next battle for example.

[Jens of Zanicuud]

The multiple classes system belongs to FF 5, if I remember well... or at least, there was a similar job system.
Anyway, if done the right way, it will be a great idea to complete your system.
Maybe you could open another topic, since this discussion is actually separated from the previous one...

Jens

[amerk]

Others have stated something along these lines, but I'll add my own thoughts for emphasis. If you're going after a traditional rpg grind, with random encounters, healing after every battle sounds almost redundant. But for story driven games, where battles are events, and there's maybe a handful of such events for each area, and the battles are tough (more like mini bosses) and resources scant, then healing after battle works.

You typically sacrifice the grind feel this way and generally have more control over how quick a person will level up, but you make up for it in story.

Exploration can still be part of the gaming experience, but generally with a lot less battles.

[zacheatscrackers]

I'm rather mixed about the concept. For enemies, unless you make basically every typical encounter hard, I don't see a need, but for bosses I think it'd be useful.

I know this pertains to EVERY battle, but if there's a feature like this, I'd simply find it useful only for major battles, unless, again every typical enemy encounter is intended to be difficult to some extent.

[m4uesviecr]

I will admit, I was taken aback by the idea of saving after every battle while playing FF13, but what made it work so well was the setting and the gameplay. Yeah, you could heal after every battle, but the battles were HARD. Like, daggers in your eye sockets HARD. And this is coming from the person who made sure each character's stats were maxed out before the end of each chapter.

So I would say that, if you do plan to have the player heal after each battle, take into consideration how that will effect gameplay, negatively and positively. It sure as heck makes searching for items (for alchemy and what not) a heck of a lot easier, as well as exploring small dungeons. But it gives you an excuse to make leveling up a bit more difficult, or more of a challenge, so to speak.