Save Points, A desperate plea Options

[Sailerius]

If I'm playing an RPG and it has save points, I will probably flat out stop playing.

What if I'm playing the game on the go and I need to stop playing suddenly? I mostly play games on my commute now and I just can't play games with save points because they never correspond with when I reach my stop. Then I have to reload my last save and lose a bunch of progress.

If your game balance requires save points, you're bad at game balance. There's no reason to artificially constrain the players and annoy them just because you think it makes the game more fun. Respect your players' time.

[ZarroTsu]

If I'm playing an RPG and it has save points, I will probably flat out stop playing.

And if the save point has an alternative use, such as party arrangement, time-travel, or dimension hopping?

[Shaddow]

If I'm playing an RPG and it has save points, I will probably flat out stop playing.

And if the save point has an alternative use, such as party arrangement, time-travel, or dimension hopping?

Does it really require a save point to have those? You can have points for each of those. For example in my Blessed Eternia game, I allow saving anywhere, doesn't mean the game is any easier, but I use a skill point system to buy your skills how you want. I also allow you to refund those skill points, but only in towns. I could have included them in a save point, but I did not need to.

[ZarroTsu]

Does it really require a save point to have those?

Not necessarily, but making it an "any-time" situation can just as well break the game. Or could be a plot point. Gotta build the game around it, and not vice-versa.

Let's say you could use the ability at any time, then what's to stop your character from simply avoiding "game overs" altogether? If you as a game maker withheld that ability at totally random times, such as combat or events, then you immediately drain consistency from this ability. Leaving it to save-points makes your job easier in this situation, as you wouldn't have to (as much) plan every event around it (unless it happens to take place in the same room as a save-point, in which case...??)

While an any-time save+time/dimension mechanic would be wonderful and all, I wonder if it would be handled correctly. If done right, the enemy would definitely start to pose a serious threat when they actually begin to (somehow) anticipate your abilities and counteract them toward the mid-point of the game. SUDDENLY, YOU AREN'T AS SAFE.

[Shaddow]

Please be sure to read my entire post. I never said it was an anytime mechanic. What I said was you can have those in specific points and restricted areas only without the need for save points.

[amerk]

I don't think there's any right or wrong answer to this. Being able to save anywhere is a convenience to the player, but not having it is not a game breaker for me. Basically, if I find I don't have time to invest in a game because of time constraints, I just won't play it until I do have time (if I do have time), and choose something that will fit my needs a lot more.

[Clord]

I don't think there's any right or wrong answer to this. Being able to save anywhere is a convenience to the player, but not having it is not a game breaker for me. Basically, if I find I don't have time to invest in a game because of time constraints, I just won't play it until I do have time (if I do have time), and choose something that will fit my needs a lot more.

"Save & Quit" feature is handy solution for that. Then save gets wiped when a player wants to continue. It is good solution for games with the save points.

This post has been edited by Clord: Nov 3 2012, 11:06 AM

[phxDansuke]

The ability to save anywhere is always something good. But if you need a save point, that's not actually bad for me unless it is well placed.

An example of save points done wrong in my opinion is Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII; I freaking love that game, but losing on a boss battle is terrible, specially on the final boss, where the last save point is right before a 5 minute cutscene. Every time I lose, I have to go through that cutscene AGAIN, and AGAIN, and AGAIN. It almost made me never touch that game again.

Properly place Save Points are a neccesity for games without auto-save. A save point during the beginning, middle and end of a dungeon should make the cut. My advice is to have a save point near the player every 10 minutes. Depending on how's your game, that could actually make you miss out important parts of the game. For example, in my game, you have save points basically anywhere, but every time you use a tent, your party actually sleeps and a day passes. And you can miss out important quests if you save way too much, because, from what I've read, people hate save points because of bad implementation. If you can get that out of the way, you'll have no problem.

[LockeZ]

If your game balance requires save points, you're bad at game balance. There's no reason to artificially constrain the players and annoy them just because you think it makes the game more fun. Respect your players' time.

This is kind of dumb! I can think of tons and tons and tons of games (like, almost 99% of games) that would be flat out ruined if you could save anywhere, and I think anyone who really can't play long enough to get from one save point to the next should play a different game.

Let me expand on that second point. Even if you can technically save anywhere, your game is going to be designed with play periods in mind. One dungeon or one section of a long dungeon is usually a play period in most JRPGs. One stage is a play period in an action or platformer game. In World of Warcraft, when levelling or doing daily quests, quests are grouped so that you finish a series of them in one outpost and then get told to move on to the next outpost; this is a play session. In Fallout 3, one quest is probably a play session. In a tactical RPG, a play session is probably one battle. In Etrian Odyssey, one play session lasts from when you enter the labyrinth until when you run out of resources and recall back to town. This is a coherent vignette in the game that, when played from start to finish, creates a single experience. If the player divides it up, he won't really enjoy it to the same degree. It won't be a complete experience.

Sometimes, crazy shit happens and you have to put the game down. I get that. But you should EXPECT to play long enough to play through one play session. You should go in with the plan of playing until the point where the game says, "OK, mission complete. Take a breather." In the once-every-few-games case that something crazy happens and you have to quit early, it's arguably nice if the game lets you do so, but I don't see why OH MY GOD I HAVE TO GO BACK TO SIX MINUTES AGO is so horrible. Those six minutes you're redoing help set up the rest of the play arc and make it coherent.

[markchapman10]

Save anywhere with save point reminders (to remind to save before an upcoming boss for example) is ideal with a lot of players. I don't really care, either way, but if you use save points, add them aplenty and allow saving anywhere on the world map.

I'm currently playing a game with save points, and it doesn't allow you to save on the world map.

Another option, save anywhere on the world map or in safe zones, but for dungeons, let the player buy save points. The cost can be relatively expensive, say around 1000 G for a standard save, and get expensive the more features it offers:

1. Standard Save = 1000 G
2. Save with 25% Party Restoration = 1500 G
3. Save with 50% Party Restoration = 2500 G
4. Save with full Party Restoration = 4000 G

This allows the players to be selective on how many save points to buy and use, but doesn't hinder from doing so if they have the resources.

to be honest, that is one thing I have never tried... I like that idea.

[amerk]

I haven't tried it either, yet, but I've been contemplating it as a possibility. You could even give the saves names of items (similar to Final Fantasy):

1. Standard Save = 1000 G is called Sleeping Bags
2. Save with 25% Party Restoration = 1500 G is called tent
3. Hut
4. Cabin or House
5. etc

The more I think about it, the more I think I'm going to try it out... after the game I'm working on.

[vvalkingman]

What about not breaking immersion by autosaving for the player whenever they accomplish something of significance like defeating a boss, starting a questline, finding a town, etc...Deux Ex Human Revolution does that AND it gives you the option to save whenever you want as well just like the default saving system of rpg maker. Idk about you guys, by immersion is hard to pull off in rpg maker games(imo) but if you can, there isn't anything worse than breaking that immersion by having a floating crystal or a textbox pop up "would you like to save?" We want them in our "world", saving should be handled by us in the background. Thoughts?

[Mutation]

My simple thought is, if it doesn't have save points, it should just have a non-invasive way to remind you. Like having the characters stop and chat a second. A simple 'I think Captain Evil is just beyond this door, Mr. Main Character' is good enough. Although, maybe with better writing.

Otherwise, save points should be related plotwise. Like the black cat in Witch's House.

Autosaves are cool too, but sometimes I get annoyed when a game autosaves just after I did something I want to reverse.

This could probably be thrown out the window if the game in question is a fourth-wall breaking humor based game.

This post has been edited by Mutation: Jan 24 2013, 07:56 PM